Author Topic: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build  (Read 101525 times)

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Online calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #525 on: December 22, 2016, 08:12:15 AM »
If you have some, wipe the fork tubes (uppers) with some Marvel Mystery Oil. That will help stall any rust.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #526 on: December 22, 2016, 08:37:19 AM »
Atlas, is that a red Volvo sport coupe? What model ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #527 on: December 22, 2016, 09:15:55 AM »
If you have some, wipe the fork tubes (uppers) with some Marvel Mystery Oil. That will help stall any rust.

Thanks Cal, will do!

Atlas, is that a red Volvo sport coupe? What model ?

It is!  1971 P1800E (though converted to a webber carb, somewhat sadly...) the original fuel injection system is troublesome and pricy..but we'll go back to it one day.

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #528 on: December 22, 2016, 10:22:16 AM »
If you have some, wipe the fork tubes (uppers) with some Marvel Mystery Oil. That will help stall any rust.

Thanks Cal, will do!

Atlas, is that a red Volvo sport coupe? What model ?

It is!  1971 P1800E (though converted to a webber carb, somewhat sadly...) the original fuel injection system is troublesome and pricy..but we'll go back to it one day.

I hope to find one of those someday from someone who's desperate for $.. an 'it's all gotta go,Moving sale,etc.' and that is one nice vintage Volvo,I'd trade my 240 for it ANY day  :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #529 on: December 22, 2016, 12:12:18 PM »
I hope to find one of those someday from someone who's desperate for $.. an 'it's all gotta go,Moving sale,etc.' and that is one nice vintage Volvo,I'd trade my 240 for it ANY day  :)

She sure is sweet!  And bulletproof to boot.  Beautiful transmission and pulls a lot harder than the MG B.  We've have this one up above 90mph, good times.  She's "in" for new rings and maybe a rear main seal.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #530 on: December 22, 2016, 12:19:37 PM »
Not pushing her hard at all, I had my 66 122S up to 95+ on the back straight of the Indanoplis Speedway on our "parade lap". Man that banking is intense...
The D-Jetronics works great when you replace all the worn components and get all the seals  replaced and clean up the electrical contacts.
Friend's 164 w/ Djet purrs like a kitten until you step on it then she roars to life...love that car.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #531 on: December 22, 2016, 12:23:32 PM »
Not pushing her hard at all, I had my 66 122S up to 95+ on the back straight of the Indanoplis Speedway on our "parade lap". Man that banking is intense...
The D-Jetronics works great when you replace all the worn components and get all the seals  replaced and clean up the electrical contacts.
Friend's 164 w/ Djet purrs like a kitten until you step on it then she roars to life...love that car.

Hah! Awesome.  This was weber conversion when we got it, would like to go back to D-jet at some point!

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #532 on: January 02, 2017, 01:59:12 PM »
It's Christmas!



Hope you all had a wonderful holiday and a happy New Year.  Back in town and ready to get a couple of these bikes back on the road!  The CL is first on the chopping block.  The to-do...



Then back to my little 350 Four!

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #533 on: January 02, 2017, 02:08:12 PM »
I hope to find one of those someday from someone who's desperate for $.. an 'it's all gotta go,Moving sale,etc.' and that is one nice vintage Volvo,I'd trade my 240 for it ANY day  :)

She sure is sweet!  And bulletproof to boot.  Beautiful transmission and pulls a lot harder than the MG B.  We've have this one up above 90mph, good times.  She's "in" for new rings and maybe a rear main seal.

Does it have a B21 engine ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #534 on: January 02, 2017, 02:28:48 PM »
I hope to find one of those someday from someone who's desperate for $.. an 'it's all gotta go,Moving sale,etc.' and that is one nice vintage Volvo,I'd trade my 240 for it ANY day  :)

She sure is sweet!  And bulletproof to boot.  Beautiful transmission and pulls a lot harder than the MG B.  We've have this one up above 90mph, good times.  She's "in" for new rings and maybe a rear main seal.

B20

Does it have a B21 engine ?

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #535 on: January 02, 2017, 03:47:25 PM »
B21F with K-Jetronics was used from '76-82.5
Rare was the B21F with L-Jetronics with B23F replacing 2.1L with 2.3L in '83.  The L -Jetronics going through a couple revisions until B230 motor made the scene with smaller big bearing surfaces in crank.

The B21FT being a lower compression turbo charged motor used in the  '82-85 240 Turbos.  At first an oil cooled design with water cooled in 85 if I remember correctly. The B230FT replacing it in the 740 -760 and 940-960 turbo motored cars.  All being water cooled turbos.  The turbos being entertaining to drive...sedan being a little more fun than the wagons was my experience.  The added weight of the glass in the wagon's tail making the handling feel very different and the perception of the acceleration being slower on the couple turbo wagons I had driven.  It could have been they had motors that were not properly tuned or were worn but, I liked the sedan turbo better.  Never owned one though.

Frank and Joe Derks of London Ontario put a B23E motor with Getrag 5 speed in a P1800 and Frank would often street race it.  It was very quick.  But, Frank had a bad habit of dropping the clutch and breaking the rear axle/drive on the car.  It was a beautiful blue metallic paint on the car...similar to Planet Blue of the CBs.
Joe was a Volvo Master Mechanic at the dealer in London. They had the fun of modifying the B23 to sit upright in the engine bay rather than leaning as it did in all other cars...

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #536 on: January 02, 2017, 03:53:08 PM »
B21F with K-Jetronics was used from '76-82.5
Rare was the B21F with L-Jetronics with B23F replacing 2.1L with 2.3L in '83.  The L -Jetronics going through a couple revisions until B230 motor made the scene with smaller big bearing surfaces in crank.

The B21FT being a lower compression turbo charged motor used in the  '82-85 240 Turbos.  At first an oil cooled design with water cooled in 85 if I remember correctly. The B230FT replacing it in the 740 -760 and 940-960 turbo motored cars.  All being water cooled turbos.  The turbos being entertaining to drive...sedan being a little more fun than the wagons was my experience.  The added weight of the glass in the wagon's tail making the handling feel very different and the perception of the acceleration being slower on the couple turbo wagons I had driven.  It could have been they had motors that were not properly tuned or were worn but, I liked the sedan turbo better.  Never owned one though.

Frank and Joe Derks of London Ontario put a B23E motor with Getrag 5 speed in a P1800 and Frank would often street race it.  It was very quick.  But, Frank had a bad habit of dropping the clutch and breaking the rear axle/drive on the car.  It was a beautiful blue metallic paint on the car...similar to Planet Blue of the CBs.
Joe was a Volvo Master Mechanic at the dealer in London. They had the fun of modifying the B23 to sit upright in the engine bay rather than leaning as it did in all other cars...

David

Hah!  Neat info..thanks David.  8)

Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #537 on: January 02, 2017, 05:09:41 PM »
My 87' 240 is the most durable car I've ever owned,had it since 01'  :) 480K & still going strong I installed a 93' B230F 'L' engine after having it fully rebuilt w/ the car having only 130K on it at the time when i bought it.I plan on looking for a 93' 240 when i move out West this yr. That salt they use around here is a killer.
David,Do you think any of the parts on my 87' will interchange w/ the later model/yr. 240's ?
I don't mean to 'thread-jack' Atlas,sorry.
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline 540nova

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #538 on: January 02, 2017, 06:22:07 PM »
This post has really drifted.


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Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #539 on: January 02, 2017, 06:29:26 PM »
This post has really drifted.


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It will make it's way back!  How about a picture of the way she started for some re-inspiration...


Offline grcamna2

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #540 on: January 02, 2017, 07:36:55 PM »
Before... and AFTER  8) I hope you do a set of photos like that Atlas.  :)
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #541 on: January 03, 2017, 07:34:01 AM »
Before... and AFTER  8) I hope you do a set of photos like that Atlas.  :)

You can bet I will!

Offline MoMo

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #542 on: January 03, 2017, 02:26:54 PM »
Atlas, what is to the right of the 350?  Larry

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #543 on: January 03, 2017, 08:45:21 PM »
Atlas, what is to the right of the 350?  Larry

That's my '77 R100/7..the start of it all!..lots of info here.













Love the thing to death  ;D  8)

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #544 on: January 11, 2017, 06:54:48 PM »
Hello hello hello!  I am stuck in the real world until Jan 31.  That is the deadline I gave myself.  Come then I am taking a two week CB350F full focus "vacation" where I can really dive in and make some more ground on the ol gal ~~ I hope you all are excited, I know I am!!

Some parts arrived for the CL350 today so I took a brief hiatus to make some ground there.  Todays project: Pamco install.





I am definitely ordering that Motion Pro two way valve.  Despite MoMo's tip about plugging both ends and lifting the tank I still managed to dose the place in gasoline -- ordered.



an interlude, we dropped the front cross member on the P1800 and were able to remove the oil pan.  This gave access to the connecting rods.  Now we have the pistons out and have ordered new rings.  None broken but significant blow by.  Cylinder walls look exceptional with little to no ridge at the top of the stroke after nearly 100k miles.



Now back to our scheduled transmission



To install the new ignition the old points, advance, and condenser had to come out.  They didn't put up much of a fight, but the condenser mounting screws are in a dastardly location (like much else on this bike).  The two screws holding the bracket in place are inaccessible by about 1/3 of a mm.  Really, really, annoying.  This bike likes to tempt you with it's easy to find screws, brackets, etc, but then smash your dreams when you try to get a screw driver in there and just can't reach.  Okay I'm being melodramatic.  I grabbed a pair of vice grips and went at it from the side, that did the trick.  Maybe hex head bolts would be a better approach here..



I will need a new points cover gasket.  Surprisingly hard to find..

While I was hear I decided to finally measure the spark plug cap resistance as Calj77 had recommended.  The results were quite telling...





!?!?  I was reading around and found 9.5k ohms to be the service ceiling for these 5k ohm spark plug caps.  Yikes!  This are both nearly there, the right one especially!!  And to think they simply screw off..Cal I want to say sorry for delaying this so long, what an easy easy job and very informative.  Figure this..more resistance through cap = weaker spark, weaker spark = more unburnt fuel = rich mixture.  This could be what is giving us that excessively rich mixture!  Or at least contributing.  I will be ordering new spark plug caps.  These NGK 5k ohms should do the trick.  The wire also looks..rough



Is this reusable?  As with most of these early Hondas the plug wire is affixed to the coil.  If I were to replace the wire, would I need to replace the coil with a removable type?  Is there any way to test the wire without removing it from the coil?

Moving forward, it was time to get soldering.  I took my loose wiring diagram (copied from http://www.cb450ignition.com/Installation3500.htm) and mapped it out.  I ordered a handful of 3.5mm bullet connectors, male, female, and double female + sheathing and heat shrink to work with.  Plan of attach was tin the wire, slip on the connector and heat shrink, crimp, load with solder, cover with sheathing, seal with heat shrink, and finally close up with electrical tape.  It may be no CalJ job...but it should do for me!  ;) 

My soldering station..this garage is a MESS



Starting with the double females off the e-advance (sensor side).  One black and one red from each electronic point pickup unit connect in here.



Then a single female bullet for the white and green wires.  These go to the remaining wires on the electronic points.





Moving on to the new ignition, all six wires here got single male bullets.  I had a decent flow going by this point so they went on without much fuss.





Now back to the e advance unit.  On the coil side I installed two male bullets.  These go to the existing coil pickups, (L & R) one blue and one yellow.  The harness has a dual female bullet on the ends now, one where the old points hooked up and one for the old condenser.  I will only be using one side of the dual bullet with the new ignition.



The final step is to solder on a bolt hook for a frame ground, and tap into the black w/ white stripe wire for +12v. 



There is a dual bullet on the black w/ white stripe wire now, with one bullet going to each coil.  I'll be snipping the current connection and in it's place installing a triple female bullet.  This will allow the new ignition to be fully "plug n play".  The owner should be able to convert back to the OEM points with no splices or changes required.  Nice!  Just have to order the 3.5mm triple female or see if a local electronics store has one or 10.

All in all good progress!  I am amazed at the results of the spark plug cap resistance check.  Wow.  Thank you Cal for the heads up on that I will now be going vehicle to vehicle and checking!!

Friday we will install the two way motion pro valve and finish up the Pamco installation.  Until next time  8)


Online calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #545 on: January 11, 2017, 07:25:50 PM »
Plug caps are too often overlooked  :)
The plug wire can be trimmed and a new cap installed. Just don't cut too much, else the plug wire won't reach the coil afterwards and you will be replacing the coil.
Soldered, crimped, and shrink wrapped allows you to skip the electrical tape. Besides, it's messy stuff  :)
I'd encourage you NOT to use a soldered ground point. Find any stock chassis screw that's convenient for your ignition install. In fact, the coils bracket, horn mount, seat latch...anything. Put a run terminal on the end of the ground wire, slip the screw through it, tighten it. Done.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #546 on: January 11, 2017, 07:30:20 PM »
Plug caps are too often overlooked  :)
The plug wire can be trimmed and a new cap installed. Just don't cut too much, else the plug wire won't reach the coil afterwards and you will be replacing the coil.
Soldered, crimped, and shrink wrapped allows you to skip the electrical tape. Besides, it's messy stuff  :)
I'd encourage you NOT to use a soldered ground point. Find any stock chassis screw that's convenient for your ignition install. In fact, the coils bracket, horn mount, seat latch...anything. Put a run terminal on the end of the ground wire, slip the screw through it, tighten it. Done.

Thanks Cal!!  Sadly I am already borderline on the plug wire length...will see how much I can get away with.  Went with the electrical tape around the bottom because my heat shrink wasn't shrink-y enough...

Plan is one of these for the ground to a bolt most likely near the battery box, there seems to be decent space in there.



Thoughts on a plug wire splice?

https://www.amazon.com/NGK-J-1-Racing-Cable-Splicer/dp/B0018JXIXI

Online calj737

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #547 on: January 11, 2017, 07:32:18 PM »
Yep, those splices work well. Meant to mention that in my last post.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline iiAtlas

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #548 on: January 11, 2017, 07:36:36 PM »
Yep, those splices work well. Meant to mention that in my last post.

Okay one more for ya -- any easy way to test the remaining spark plug wire for wear/resistance and the coils?  Would like to know where they stand as now would be the time to replace them!  Appreciate all the help Cal!!

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: 1973 CB350F "Modest Original" build
« Reply #549 on: January 11, 2017, 10:37:56 PM »
You can do some surgery on the coils if you are inclined. Price out some new wire to figure the cost of the copper core wire. Then a tube or two of JB weld and some silicone glue. The spark plug wire goes through the body connecting at the opposite end of where it enters. You have to cut the plastic body back and carve a groove for your new wire. Cut the old wire leaving room in the coil body to solder the end of the copper core to the end of the copper  wire nside the coil.  Then you cover the connection with silicone and when set you then pot around the wire with the epoxy to hold it in place.  Alternatively some just fill below and around the wire with silicone.  Just can't pull on the wires without risking separating the silicone from the body of the coil.  Wipe down the wire with acetone and then denatured alcohol to remove and mold release or oxidation of the rubber sheath of your new wires.  Leave a couple inches extra so you don't have to redo wires when you replace the plug caps again and trim off 3/4" for your new caps.

Allternatively, pick up a pair of new aftermarket coils from cb750supply.com for $36/ each.  HondaMan recommends them as a great stock coil replacement.
David- back in the desert SW!