Topic: LED Turn Signal Diode Install - one more time, please!

[Chachi]

I've asked in the past, but now I'm actually doing it and need some guidance. 750 K3, single turn signal bulb in dash. I have the Kuryakn diode kit (the generic one that everyone probably gets).

This one:
http://www.kuryakyn.com/products/719/diode-kit

Instructions from Kuryakn with comments and questions from me:

1. Locate turn signal indicator bulb and the two wires attached to it.
--No problems here.

2. Cut both wires in a location providing both adequate room to work and wire length to make your splices.
--To confirm: I'm cutting after they come in to headlight bucket, but before they make their first connection?

3. Select one of the wires from the indicator bulb, it makes no difference which one you choose, and run it to ground. A 6” length of wire has been provided in case additional length is needed.
--What's the best/cleanest way to ground in headlight bucket?

4. Take the remaining wire from the indicator bulb and splice it to the blue wire on the diode assembly.
--No problem here. Assuming I cut in the correct place in step 2.

5. Take the two wires coming from the bikes wiring harness and splice one to each of the red wires on the diode assembly.
--This is where I get stuck. Am I splicing in the the other end of the feeds of the first two wires I cut? Or connecting turn signals directly? Help me out here.

Thanks.

[mystic_1]

Rather than cutting into the wires coming from your turn signal indicator bulb, follow the leads until they come to a bullet connector and disconnect them there.  Then you can trim off the bullet connectors (or even better add bullet connectors to your new wiring, so you don't have to cut your original wiring at all.


You'll find that one side of the bulb is connected to ORANGE and the other side is connected to BLUE.  Instead you'll connect to these points using the two legs of your diode assembly.  The blue wire then goes to your bulb as indicated and the other side of the bulb gets grounded.

You can pick up a ground connection from any convenient GREEN connector inside the headlight bucket.

Below is a schematic if me doing a similar install but with a speedo that had integrated indicator lights, hence the YELLOW and YELLOW+BLACK color codes.  Relevant section is the upper left hand side of this diagram.  (note, my diode symbols are backwards here, but that won't matter to you because your diodes are already laid out correctly.

Hope this helps.

mystic_1

[Chachi]

From dash bulb:
Blue --> disconnect from bullet connector --> ground (diode kit ground wire run to ground)
Orange --> disconnect from bullet connector --> spliced to single blue end of diode kit wire
Single blue end of diode kit wire --> two red ends of diode kit wire --> ?

See picture attached. My main question is what connects to the two red lines (labeled as 'to wiring harness')?

[Chachi]

This?

Dash bulb --> Blue --> disconnect from bullet connector --> one red end of diode kit
Dash bulb --> Orange --> disconnect from bullet connector --> one red end of diode kit
Two red ends of diode kit --> Single blue end of diode kit --> ?

[Chachi]

Dash bulb is now LED.

[Chachi]

So...

Dash bulb blue and orange --> XX splice here XX <-- their respective bullet connectors
Spliced blue and orange from dash bulb --> joined together with single blue diode kit (3 way connection)
One red end diode kit --> spliced orange feeding to bullet connector
One red end diode kit --> spliced blue feeding to bullet connector
Turn signals wired as normal

OR

Dash bulb blue and orange --> XX splice here XX <-- their respective bullet connectors
Spliced orange from dash bulb --> blue diode kit
Spliced blue from dash bulb --> wired to ground
One red end diode kit --> spliced orange feeding to bullet connector
One red end diode kit --> spliced blue feeding to bullet connector
Turn signals wired as normal

[Chachi]

Checking back for clarification.... thanks.

[mystic_1]

Dash bulb blue and orange --> Cut here XX <-- their respective bullet connectors
Splice orange from dash bulb --> blue diode kit
Splice blue from dash bulb --> wired to ground
One red end diode kit --> splice to orange feeding to bullet connector
One red end diode kit --> splice to blue feeding to bullet connector
Turn signals wired as normal

This (note the changes I made, just terminology really).


BUT

This is better:

Dash bulb blue and orange DISCONNECT their respective bullet connectors
orange from dash bulb --> add new bullet connector to ->blue diode kit
blue from dash bulb --> add new bullet connector to -> wired to ground
One red end diode kit --> add new bullet connector to -> to orange feeding to bullet connector
One red end diode kit --> add new bullet connector to -> to blue feeding to bullet connector
Turn signals wired as normal

In this fashion, you avoid cutting or splicing the stock wires at all.  Same amount of effort really, except for getting new bullet connectors, which are cheap and can be ordered from http://vintageconnections.com/

mystic_1

[Chachi]

mystic... that makes sense except I am still unclear here:
One red end diode kit --> add new bullet connector to -> to orange feeding to bullet connector
One red end diode kit --> add new bullet connector to -> to blue feeding to bullet connector

What exactly are the two red ends of the diode kit connecting to? Are you saying add bullet connectors and connect back where the two original blue and orange were disconnected?

I'm literally in the garage trying to figure this out...

[mystic_1]

If you go back to the hand-drawn schematic that I posted, in the lower left corner you'll see the actual turn signal circuit.  +12v power is brought to the flasher unit first, then routed through the turn signal switch, where the pulsing signal is sent to either Left or Right signals via Orange and Blue wires.  At this point, the stock indicator bulb is connected.  When you disconnect the stock light, the spots you disconnect the wires FROM are where the two legs of your diode kit will connect.

mystic_1

[mystic_1]

Ha, forevermore hereafter you shall be known as "The Wiring Fairy"



mystic_1

[Chachi]

Free stew for everyone... when my lights work.

This answered my last (?) question:
"When you disconnect the stock light, the spots you disconnect the wires FROM are where the two legs of your diode kit will connect."

This is how I am wired at the moment and stopping for now:
1. Dash bulb Blue and Orange DISCONNECT their respective bullet connectors
2. Orange from dash bulb (the one disconnected in Step 1) --> male bullet connector to --> Blue diode kit female bullet connector
3. Blue from dash bulb (the one disconnected in Step 1) --> male bullet connector to --> wired to ground
4. One Red end diode kit --> male bullet connector to --> Orange spot disconnected in Step 1
5. One Red end diode kit --> male bullet connector to --> Blue spot disconnected in Step 1
6. Turn signals wired as normal

Don't know if something is still wrong or my battery is just tired of having the lights on for an hour, but winkers don't wink. Everything lights up as it should with no crossover, but they don't blink. Bike on tender overnight to see if it's just that. I'm all LED, but bike has been on for over an hour with all lights on, etc.

Thanks for all the help. If winkers are solid and don't wink tomorrow, then what? Stew?

[mystic_1]

When you say you're "all LED" I am interpreting that as LED relay too?

A big +1 to this.

First, if you suspect the battery is low, check it with a meter, but that may not actually be the problem.


So far we've just been dealing with the indicator light.  If you also changed the turn signal lights themselves over to LED bulbs, you must also change over the flasher relay to one designed to work with LED lights.

The flasher relay is basically a little switch that turns on and off automatically.  With the stock flasher unit, and in the most common kind used on other vehicles, it does so because inside it is a "bimetallic strip" which is two pieces of metal bonded to each other.  It's slightly resistive, so as current flows through it, it heats up a bit.  Because it's made of two differing metals, those expand at different rates, so the strip bends, and opens the contact.  Turn signals turn off.  The strip then cools off, straightens out again, and closes the contact, allowing current to flow again.  Lights turn on, cycle repeats until you turn off the flashers.

Now, this relies on a known amount of power flowing through the flasher unit.  LED units don't pull enough power to heat up the bimetallic strip, so the winkers won't flash.

Replacement flasher units can be purchased which are electronically driven, instead of electromechanical, and are specifically designed to drive LED signal lights.  If you're still running the stock flasher unit, you'll need to replace it.

LED-compatible flasher units should be easily available at your local auto-parts store and are only a few bucks.  Read the packaging carefully and make sure it's LED compatible and designed to drive two lights per side of the vehicle.


You can confirm all of the above by temporarily reconnecting one or more of your old incandescent turn signals, and seeing if they blink when you flip the switch.

mystic_1

[Chachi]

I have an electronic flasher installed:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/motorcycle-accessories/lf1-s-pin-universal-motorcycle-electronic-flasher/193/841/

Every light on bike is LED: headlight, taillight, turn signals, dash bulbs, gauge bulbs.

Just went out and got same thing after charging on tender overnight. Scorpion AGM battery. Left hand handlebar switch for blinker will make blinkers light up, but they stay solid - both front and rear and dash bulb. In the right sequence - left for left, right for right and no crossover/bleed - they just don't blink.

Heading out to little league... back later.

[mystic_1]

I was reading the customer reviews on that flasher unit and saw this:

Great flasher!

I was looking around for a while for a flasher that would work with LED turn signals on my 1972 CB750 and none of the recommended ones worked for me. Got this one and it was working perfectly. Turn signals were flashing normally. Only thing I found that on CB bikes you have to reverse the wires for it to work - black to gray and you are in business.

Maybe give this a try?  This would make sense that the flasher unit will only work when current flows in one direction and not the other.  So, try reversing the leads.

mystic_1

[Chachi]

Switching relay connections had no change. Relay has been working OK for what it's worth. Dash bulb light is on solid when turn signals light up solid. Grounds seem OK - one for each turn signal and one for blue from dash bulb. They are just temporary grounds tied on to grounding nut where headlight bucket mounts. I say they are OK, because the turn signal running lights only stay on when they're grounded (they are 3 wire LED turn signals).

Thoughts?

My wiring set up is correct now?

1. Dash bulb Blue and Orange DISCONNECT their respective bullet connectors
2. Orange from dash bulb (the one disconnected in Step 1) --> male bullet connector to --> Blue diode kit female bullet connector
3. Blue from dash bulb (the one disconnected in Step 1) --> male bullet connector to --> wired to ground
4. One Red end diode kit --> male bullet connector to --> Orange spot disconnected in Step 1
5. One Red end diode kit --> male bullet connector to --> Blue spot disconnected in Step 1
6. Turn signals wired as normal

[Chachi]

Ugh sorry!

Here you go...

K&S round #3, 26-8602 and 8603:
https://www.denniskirk.com/k-and-s/aluminum-round-3-single-filament-led-marker-lights-w-amber-lens-26-8602.p217641.prd/217641.sku
https://www.denniskirk.com/k-and-s/aluminum-round-3-dual-filament-led-marker-lights-w-amber-lens-26-8603.p217642.prd/217642.sku

Note: I previously had incandescent K&S dual filament 3 wire lights up front, but they did not require me to hook up the ground wire.

Package wiring description:
Red - flasher
Black w/stripe - negative
Black - running light

However... the wires actually are Black, Red, And Yellow. And here's what I did as the leads off the LED signals were really short. My old K&S 3 wire incandescent wires were a good length so I snipped them and connected them to these. Tested everything first - color connections for incandescent 3 wire and LED 3 wire.

From incandescent wires to LED:
Black incandescent was running -- LED Red was running
Red incandescent was flasher -- LED Yellow was flasher
Ground not needed -- LED Black ground now needed

So I basically connected the LED 3 wire up the same way I had my incandescent 3 wires done, except I had to ground the LED with their ground wire.

[Chachi]

When I do that and turn on left turn signal switch...

Front left signal - nothing (running light goes out, no illumination)
Rear left signal - on solid, no blink
Dash bulb - on solid, no blink

[Chachi]

Yes, correct. Front running lights are on with headlight switch. Headlight is not hooked up at moment. When I unplug red wire from left turn signal and activate left turn switch, left running light goes out and there is no illumination in that signal. Rear left signal and dash bulb are then solid. If I leave red wire connected and do the same thing, left turn signal goes from running light to solid turn signal with solid rear left signal and dash bulb turn indicator - all solid.

[Spanner 1]

O.K. , so the stock set-up for turn signals = 2x 25w bulbs . That's a 50w load on the flasher relay when either R or L flashers are turned on . Even an electronic relay is expecting this amount of load  ( about 4 amps ). L.E.D.'s draw very little current ( amps ) and will not work on these old bikes without a ballast resistor connected in the Gray wire to 'load' the flasher, otherwise all kind of weirdness will ensue ( described above ! ).... a 3 or 4 ohm wire-wound resistor rated for 5 watts would be good.

[Spanner 1]

Oh ! and by the way..... introducing that resistor in the flasher circuit to make L.E.D.'s work negates any power savings often desired by changing to L.E.D.s anyway......old bikes, not easy to modify

[rotortiller]

Why not install two LEDS into the BA9 instrument window with 2 tiny resistors to limit local electrical current. Then you have full left/right isolation and don't have to hack the wiring harness? Also maintains energy savings for the other parts of the LED signal system using front/rear R-L located 12V post mounted LED turn indicators. Just a thought.

rt

[Chachi]

So no one has LED turn signals with a single dash bulb with just an electronic flasher and diode kit?

[mystic_1]

Not sure what the issue is here, If it were me, I'd pull the flasher relay out and test it on the bench with one of more of your LED turn signals.

Wire from a battery to the winker and then directly to a turn signal, see if it blinks.

That flasher relay claims to have no minimum current draw requirement, see if that is really true or not.

mystic_1

[Chachi]

OK so check this out... first off a 1,000 thanks for all the help. If I could send you some stew or baked goods I would! Now... the reason they are officially called marker lights vs. turn signals (in my opinion) is DOT regulation junk, meaning they are not large enough to pass as turn signals. I've used incandescent marker lights as turn signals in the past - always dual filament up front and single filament in the rear, just like my stock incandescent set up. I tried LED bulbs in incandescent lights and did not think they were an improvement, so I decided to try actual LED lights and I like them a lot. I wanted full LED lights on the bike - head, tail, turn, dash, gauges. Can't really say why. I found some I really like and they are bright (brighter than stock) and draw way less. That said I've always avoided the diode install b/c as you can see I am not very good with wiring past basic stuff.

So now what? Well, everything works! I think I blew that flasher unit while plugging around different connections with everything on. I had a spare EP34 three prong flasher so I hooked that up and that was all it took. The only caveat is that they will not blink with the switch ALL the way to the left or right (where the buzzer activates). It that position, they are just solid. But if I do it the first stop, they blink fine.

Worth noting I was able to do this exact same thing with LED bulbs in my incandescent signals if I took my dash bulb out. I guess now with the diode kit wired in I can do it with the dash bulb in. I guess they just don't have enough draw to activate the buzzer. If that's my only issue, I can live what that.

Seriously thanks for sticking with this thread and helping me out. And also for offering to actually come help me out. That speaks volumes to this forum.

Cheers!