Topic: Roof work, need advice for a first timer

[edwardmorris]

Hey guys, we've been living in our home we purchased three years ago and for what we could afford, it came with some flaws. All the little stuff including some major wiring disasters I was able to fix myself with some supervision. But this roof thing seems a bit too much to DIY, so considering getting professional help.  The current roof which is about 75% shingles and 25% flat roof is at least 19 years old, well past its 15 year warranty. I've been putting it off for a while now as I was busy burying myself under that K2

I climbed up there and it looked like most of the shingles are holding, but the ones that aren't look really bad. The worst section is the boot around the chimney, and on really heavy rain days, water is now making it down to the basement I can no longer put this off and have saved up enough to at least get the ball rolling. I know nothing on how to deal with contractors as I've managed on my own so far, so any advice will be appreciated.

What should I look for when finding a good contractor? Anything I can quiz them with to know if they're any good? What is typically involved with such kind of work?

[eigenvector]

Where you at?  General area if you don't want to spill the beans.  Where you are will determine the kind of roofing material to use.  That's something you can use to quiz your contractor - what they'll replace it with.

2nd Question - new roof or install on old roof?  New sheathing? 

The flashing on the chimney can be a problem - it's integrated with the brick not just glued on, so if they can do first class repairs to that is another thing to look into.

What it entails - generally they tarp off the perimeter of the house, then bring in a huge dumpster, spend about 2 days ripping off the old roof, then another 2 days or so installing the new one.  Should be a job for about 4 or 5 people.

[Stev-o]

Hey Mo....I'm a project manager and deal with roofers all the time.

If that roof is 19 years old, it is past it's service life and time to reroof. Depending on the cond, it may be possible to put an additonal layer of shingles over the existing, other wise it will need to be torn off.

vector is correct, the flashing on your chimney is not just glued on, they typically cut into the brick or morter, flash and counter flash and the shingles weave through it, not easy for DIY'rs to do.

I'd call about 5 roofers and get bids, walk the roof with them so you can learn exactly what your issues are and the best way to correct them.

Post some pics so we get a better idea of what you are dealing with.

[scrapvalue]

I  have done my last 2 roofs with metal. Wouldn't use anything else anymore.
Do it once and it is done forever,(well as long s you will need it anyway).
Can be put right over your old shingles which save a ton of $$$$ on the tear off and disposal of the old shingles.
Also takes half as long to install.
There are many options of styles now, not just the old barn type metal.

[Bob Wessner]

I  have done my last 2 roofs with metal. Wouldn't use anything else anymore.
Do it once and it is done forever,(well as long s you will need it anyway).
Can be put right over your old shingles which save a ton of $$$$ on the tear off and disposal of the old shingles.
Also takes half as long to install.
There are many options of styles now, not just the old barn type metal.

Just curious, metal intrigues me, coming up on a new roof myself. What sort of cost/square would I be looking at and how would it fare under a two-hundred year old oak tree, dents, etc.

OP, if you are considering re-roofing over existing, check your local codes. Here only two layers are permitted.

[70CB750]

I bough MasterRib metal roofing from the local hw store and replaced roofing on our barn and my shop.  Love it, it's easy to work with and lighter than shingles and will outlast me for sure.



Price was $2.50 per linear foot of panel 3 feet wide and if possible, they cut it to the length you need.  I used 12 foot panels for the barn.

[faux fiddy]

I bough MasterRib metal roofing from the local hw store and replaced roofing on our barn and my shop.  Love it, it's easy to work with and lighter than shingles and will outlast me for sure.



Price was $2.50 per linear foot of panel 3 feet wide and if possible, they cut it to the length you need.  I used 12 foot panels for the barn.

I like Metal, and have helped install many metal roofs in Alaska.

One hint don't overlook safety. A friend of mine  was on his metal roof and they get real slick with a minimal amount of water. I guess he broke his neck, the fall killed him.

[MCRider]

Hey EM:
Do you have an Angie's List in your area? I use it in Indy, I'm no longer able to do much of anything myself, except surf the net. I had my brick house nipped and tucked including the chimney butt (dbl size) and some dormer leaks. I take 3 of the nearest, A rated contractors and call them for prices. Really good experiences. HandyMen, lumbers, lawn care, tree trimming.

[edwardmorris]

Thanks all, good advice! I'm in the Northwest Indiana area btw, (not sure why my locations isn't showing under my avatar to the left?).

I'll try and take some pix when I get back up there. My square chimney is on the flat roof part. I'll call and ask what the policy on layering shingles is for my area, thanks for that info, I didn't know it was location based. Right now there is only the one layer, so I'm assuming the last roof work involved pulling out the older ones (house is about 60 y/o now). The boot work around the chimney looked to be poorly done. A guy from a roofing company was walking door to door in our area and I humored him. He quoted $2700 for just the chimney boot repair but couldn't give me a quote on the whole thing without bringing another guy up there. I will check and see if Angie's list is in our area and have some more contractors take a look like Steve-o suggested. Thanks a bunch guys, really appreciate the help!

[Stev-o]

$2700 to flash your chimney? Tell that scammer to keep walking!

I paid $4000 for a new roof on my 2500 sq ft house 6 years ago, including removal and haul off of the old shingles.

[faux fiddy]

$2700 to flash your chimney? Tell that scammer to keep walking!

I paid $4000 for a new roof on my 2500 sq ft house 6 years ago, including removal and haul off of the old shingles.

I need to get you up to Norman when I finally squeeze some money out of my brothers.

I've got an architect that says he'll  sign off on stuff. I need to get rid of flat roofs, but I got so used to hanging out up there that I prefer  a second story.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, the $2700 quote for the flashing alone seems steep unless he saw other problems with the chimney (and you would want a chimney specialist to check that out). I paid about $3k to have the brickwork redone from the roof up (about 6') with step flashing to give you an idea about costs. It should not cost more than 5 or 600 dollars to do that work around the chimney if that is all that need to be done.

[edwardmorris]

Yeah, the $2700 quote for the flashing alone seems steep unless he saw other problems with the chimney (and you would want a chimney specialist to check that out). I paid about $3k to have the brickwork redone from the roof up (about 6') with step flashing to give you an idea about costs. It should not cost more than 5 or 600 dollars to do that work around the chimney if that is all that need to be done.

Will having the chimney near the flat section make it easier or difficult for them? He said the wood underneath hadn't rotten yet, there's just enough of a leak around the boot where the trickle is going straight down to my basement and not coming inside the house.

I'm working all the way through next Tuesday but I'm going to make some time to have another contractor check it out. Will definitely get some pics as its obvious that these guys are overquoting...

[BobbyR]

Yeah, the $2700 quote for the flashing alone seems steep unless he saw other problems with the chimney (and you would want a chimney specialist to check that out). I paid about $3k to have the brickwork redone from the roof up (about 6') with step flashing to give you an idea about costs. It should not cost more than 5 or 600 dollars to do that work around the chimney if that is all that need to be done.

Will having the chimney near the flat section make it easier or difficult for them? He said the wood underneath hadn't rotten yet, there's just enough of a leak around the boot where the trickle is going straight down to my basement and not coming inside the house.

I'm working all the way through next Tuesday but I'm going to make some time to have another contractor check it out. Will definitely get some pics as its obvious that these guys are overquoting...

Flat roofs are always a problem. Very steep roofs rarely leak since the water runs off quickly. Chimneys are also a problem. One thing I finally learned is you need a wide lip at the top of the chimney. This carries the water further away from the masonry, hence the roof opening.   

[jeffg]

We just bought a 109 year old house, it was vacant for many years. it  had not been taken care of much.

Our chimney was NOT flashed with conventional metal, Someone used rubber membrane in place of flashing, and they continued it out  over the whole flat section  of the roof.
basically it was a good repair but had a couple small leaks, easy fix with some silicon caulk.

I had done some repairs with that product before it is nice stuff.  (Rubber roofing membrane).

the garage has a metal roof over wood, I tarred the seams on the wall caps, the metal roof was all good and looks very old.

the second floor has a large deck that covers lower level poach. The upper deck has a metal floor and a metal roof above, it does not have any leaks.

All the metal is great, the metal all seems very nice, it last a long time.

main roof had several leaks I just patched them with rolled roofing because I had to get heat and hot water in the house.

The gutters were hung incorrectly, maybe 25-50 years ago. That caused poor water flow, causing a waterfall forward and backward, looked like they had been trying to fix it for lots of years but never did succeed. This summer I rented scaffolding, and rehung the gutters and did the repairs.

 All is well, now we are dry inside.

  I am not a roofer by trade never had been. It is very dangerous, in some cases I use a harness and rope up. that is slower but it is safe.

be careful good luck

[RAFster122s]

I lost the PCL in my right knee due to a ladder accident whrn trying to redo gutter on the back of my house when I lived in Ohio. It is not fun to not have a PCL as it makes it very painful to get on your knees.
I avoid ladders since that accident. They normally do not repair PCL tears.

[edwardmorris]

Sorry to bump this after a while guys, but I managed to kick the can down the road a little by patching up the chimney boot (which is still holding Ok for now), but things are certainly getting worse. This constant rain and high wind crap finally started making shingles fly off and start collecting on the side of my house.

Today I had a guy from Power Remodeling Group stop by and he started off by burning through 90mins of how great his company is and how well they do things all over US blah blah blah. I asked him to get to the numbers or leave, so he started things off at the extemely low price of just $32000 to do my entire roof, gutters and install new vents the whole shabang in one day! What could be better than that?!

As soon as I said thank you for your time, he pulled back, ruffled through some pages on his tablet and went, "Well you don't need this, this and this, so your new estimate is only $26000!!!". He immediately saw the "Are you fcukin kidding me?" look on my face, started over and said "I left some padding in the measurements, let me go out and get precise ones and see if it helps". Comes back in, now the price is only $19000! Burns through another hour nagging me, then says I'll apply my managerial position's special discount just for you, now your price is only $15000, but you have to sign the contract now, the offer is gone if I leave without a contract. I asked him to leave, then he said, well, just sign the contract to do the gutters for $2700 and my $15000 will stand for a week. I told him no, I'll need to talk it over with my father-in-law who's lived here forever and has done pretty much every job there is with remodeling. He tells me give him a call, I'll be happy to talk to him and explain your options.

At this point I needed help getting rid of him, so I invited my father-in-law over and I asked him to try and sell this schit to him. If he's convinced, I'll sign it. BOY was he sorry after that! Left all mopey, but damn that was hard getting rid of him! Watch out for these guys, he claimed they have a 5 star rating on google, so I looked it up and guess what, all ratings are either 5 stars or just 1 star, the 1 star ones reporting the exact same stuff about pushy sales crap they pull. I can assume that all the 5 star ones were self created.

[BobbyR]

I suggest you ride around and if you see a roofing job going on, stop and ask if they will come over to your place and take a look. If you have a local hardware store, ask there. There are small local guys who have a good reputation.
Some of the bigger guys have commission salesman who get a piece. You pay more, they make more. They get out a tablet and show you their kids and #$%*. I found a Ecuadorian crew that resided my house for 2K less. My closest friend retired from the carpenter union and hired guys from the Union Hall. It took 2 months and he had to run around watching them all day. In the end he paid a few dollars less. A wind storm came and a piece flew off.

He came to my place and looked at the job and said, these guys know their #$%*!. They capped my windows with aluminum and his were vinyl. The guys wife bent the aluminum and supervised the guys putting it on.

You need to look around the community and see what resources are available. Do some detective work.

[Cougars750F0]

Can you do it yourself? It's not rocket science. Just hard work.

[Stev-o]

Get at least three bids.

Like Bobby mentioned, it's best to find a small company where the guy you are paying is doig the work, that way a sales guy or big company is not taking 25% off the top for profit.

[rb550four]

 I install granulated ice and water shield over the entire roof after tear-off for the new shingle job,granulated provides traction so you can walk on it easily, it has self adhesion and it won't tear  like tar paper.Beside being way better and safer than tar paper. added benefit : It will be there if your shingles blow off in high wind storms , it will provide protection the next time you change your roof. Most of this stuff is rated for 10 years duty without shingle over top of it.  Well worth the added cost.  If you decide on metal roofing , use non granulated ice and water shield beneath the steel to be sure there will be no leaks whether it be from sideways driving rain or condensation. If you use granulated under steel , expansion and contraction from heat and cold will sand the underside of the steel, rust and severely limit an otherwise long life product. If you install the steel , always put the screws through the rib (the highest point , no water can collect there) not on the flat area which will receive more downward moving water. Always use the roofing screws never the nails, they work themselves out of the steel and wood ( from heat and cold expansion and contraction.)
  Flat roofs. I did hot tar roofing when I started out . it's a short life roof, stinks , and most guys do it wrong. It's not cheap either and the old roofing should be removed because its probably harboring water between the layers from failure or condensation. Rubber roofing will be the best  and tear off and and a foam insulation base will ensure the best life of the rubber and keep some of the heat out of the rafters.
  And just so you know...Angies List... it started of from recommendations from customers... not like that anymore, any dickbird who wants to be on it can pay his way onto the list, just like better business  bureau.... it's a business, it's bull$hit ,it's a scam Sorry guys. I get calls to be on  Angies list  allot and it doesn't cost much to be on it with a bunch of losers who pay to be there.
  Oh yeah , one more thing If you get a deal on 3 tab shingles walk away, they suck , we don't use them anymore, too many keys disturbs the coverage and strength. Architectural shingles are the only way to go. Good luck.

[edwardmorris]

Thanks rb and others, all very great info. Called a couple other locals, trying to get few more done within a week or two. The power guys were pushing their own made HD Super Shingles, whatever the F that is and could not stop crying foul over the architectural ones. I didn't buy it, will post updates when the next company shows up. Again, thanks for all the help fellas, I feel a lot less ignorant dealing with these guys.

[rb550four]

Another thing to consider: depending on the position of your flat roof in relationship to your pitched roof, If the flat roof is on the pitched sides and not the gable ends ,it may be a better job to truss or rafter a pitch on the flat roof into the pitched side , then run either shingles or steel over both.
   Just don't let anyone tell you you can spray insulation over the inside of the roof over the rafters/trusses and perlins and back of roofing without providing an airspace for venting. It'll rot your perlins and rafters out. you must provide venting ,otherwise condensation will load up behind the roof panels , get trapped there and effectively rot the rafter/truss and perlins in a short period of time....Then you'll get to do it over again the right way.
If you have a brick chimney the flashing must be bent to lay into a cut in the mortar that is usually made with a grinder on a re roof. laid up step flashing that is siliconed only up the rake is unacceptable. It'll break free and leak. Folding the flashing into a mortar cut  and cementing it in is the surefire way to flash a brick or block chimney. and while you're there check the condition of the mortar joints in the chimney , Grind joint halfways out and repoint if needed and don't forget to check check the mortar cap for cracks and deterioration, remove and replace if needed. Use only "S" type mortor.
   Just wanted to be sure you're covered.... and speaking if that , be sure these guys are all insured. Roofers are especially famous for not being insured. stuff happens and you can be sued, so ask your homeowners insurance company if you can add these guys on throughout the job . So your butt is covered .

[edwardmorris]

Another thing to consider: depending on the position of your flat roof in relationship to your pitched roof, If the flat roof is on the pitched sides and not the gable ends ,it may be a better job to truss or rafter a pitch on the flat roof into the pitched side , then run either shingles or steel over both.
   Just don't let anyone tell you you can spray insulation over the inside of the roof over the rafters/trusses and perlins and back of roofing without providing an airspace for venting. It'll rot your perlins and rafters out. you must provide venting ,otherwise condensation will load up behind the roof panels , get trapped there and effectively rot the rafter/truss and perlins in a short period of time....Then you'll get to do it over again the right way.

My father-in-law suggested this exact same thing. My flat roof section is basically attic converted to rooms, so its along the pitched sides. The chimney sticks out the flat roof and not by a whole lot, so will this need extending the chimney up as well?

[rb550four]

Yes it will have to be extended. If you measured 8 feet back into the pitch of the pitched roof  from the chimney location, at your new roof height, level at the  new base position where it'll be coming out of the new roof  you need to be at least 4 feet higher than that point and 8 feet from the higher roof if it is to draw properly. if it is shorter than 8 feet , you'll have to go higher.
  It's not that hard, it just doesn't explain itself easily.
Please reread my last post , I added on an important bit about insurance to check on.