Author Topic: 78 CB 550K motor rebuild (Read 61335 times)

AlekStooge · « **Reply #325 on:** March 24, 2017, 09:54:17 PM »

Looks like I'll be needing the angled feeler gauges.

Anyone know the valve angles for the CB 550? Is this something that is just lined up by eye?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #326 on:** March 25, 2017, 05:00:42 AM »

You don't want to Loctite the sprocket bolts yet until you degree. I used loctite blue on the bolts when I was all done.

Most people eye ball it. But I had the head off and was able to find the angle on the 650. A machine shop that works on 550's might know because they have to cut valve seats.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #327 on:** March 25, 2017, 05:34:22 PM »

Damn, nobody has 45'ed feeler gauges sets with .005-.008. I went to 4 auto parts stores. Looks like I'll have to get one from 4into1. Should've looked into this before.

bwaller · « **Reply #328 on:** March 25, 2017, 06:30:32 PM »

Why do you need them? If you fell you do just make a bend at the end of regular feelers.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #329 on:** March 25, 2017, 08:17:22 PM »

Quote from: bwaller on March 25, 2017, 06:30:32 PM

Why do you need them? If you fell you do just make a bend at the end of regular feelers.

+1

You've never adjusted your tappets before?

AlekStooge · « **Reply #330 on:** March 26, 2017, 11:27:50 PM »

No I have never adjusted valve lash before. Boy did I learn the hard way though. Here was my weekend. I got new straight feeler gauges because mine didn't have the sizes I needed. I tried doing what you guys said by bending them. With difficulty I eventually thought I had one so I moved on to another. I thought I had it but noticed the tappet was a lot higher than the other one

strange. Moved on to the next ones, I ended up not being able to fit the feeler gauge under the tappet despite it almost being screwed out. My gauge broke off at the end twice because I bent it so many times. I knew this shouldn't take more than 5 min. I gave up, having no confidence in the work I've done.

I watched this video and realized I have been so focused on getting the feeler gauge to slide in underneath the tappet that I forgot the order of adjustment in the shop manual. I started with a tappet that was tight so that's why I had trouble getting the gauge underneath. I ended up with a gauge that looks like an accordion. So stupid. I was adjusting exhaust valve 1 and 4 at TDC then 2 and 3 at BDC on my wheel. So I got the Johnny dumbass of the weekend award

Anyways, whenever I used feeler gauges I'd stop adjusting when I felt light friction. Well I feel light friction even when I turn the screw in half a turn more. Should I just keep tightening until I feel more friction and then turn back a little bit or stop as soon as I feel light friction like I've been doing?

Watching the video I realized I also forgot the rubber bands. However If you see at the beginning of the video he installs the cover with the tappets in and then takes the bands off. I didn't put the tappets in till after I had the cover torqued down. Being that I turned the engine all the way through did I by chance bend a valve? Again I was so focused one getting the feeler gauge to slide in I forgot about this.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #331 on:** March 27, 2017, 04:32:49 AM »

You probably didn't bend a valve, but it's impossible to say without checking. Even without the tappets installed, the rockers hang down as you install the cover and if they're hanging down too low, they can push on the tip of the valve. I'd say, when you install your normal cover just be careful and use rubber bands.

As long as you're adjusting the proper valve according to the manual, I just put the feeler gauge between the tappet and valve and screw it down until I feel a some drag. If you're using a .004" gauge, a .005" shouldn't slide in. Nothing of this process should require force. Keep in mind as you tighten the lock nut, the gap changes so always check again after it's tight.

Good on you for recognizing something is wrong, everyone has an idiot award for something

AlekStooge · « **Reply #332 on:** March 27, 2017, 08:01:21 AM »

It's .003", but I get. Will do tonight.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #333 on:** March 28, 2017, 12:23:36 AM »

Nope it's not .003. I was setting it by the manual it wasn't done by the cam card. This video helped me to understand how much friction I should be looking for from the feeler gauge. I kept comparing my results to the magazines and paper in between like in the video.

I was still a little unsure because when you turn it a 1/8 of a turn it feels relatively the same but I know that makes a big difference. Either way I have to redo it now.

Before I realized that I did start messing around with my dial indicator and set it up. Looks right?

One thing I noticed is I was not able to set it to zero. The knob on top just loosens the spindle but doesn't change the number. There is also another knob close to that one not sure what it does. I think I just have to adjust my set up to zero it out but I don't think that is so important since we're measuring distance. I can start at 90.

flatlander · « **Reply #334 on:** March 28, 2017, 01:11:23 AM »

you can rotate the bezel to get the "0" on the face of the indicator to be wherever you need it. so to zero it, it's not the spindle that you move, it's the face.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #335 on:** March 28, 2017, 04:32:23 AM »

What are you trying to measure with the dial indicator? If this is for the degreeing process, this is no good. Read my write up, it says to put the dial indicator tip on the spring retainer. Why? Because the rocker arm moves in an arc and doesn't represent valve travel accurately.

And remember that regardless of the "feeling" with the feeler gauge, the next size up shouldn't fit. Honda and others sell go/no-go feelers for this purpose.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #336 on:** March 28, 2017, 06:26:16 AM »

So my feeler gauges should be scratching pretty well against the tappet and valve? If they are not then the next size fits in.

Someone refresh my memory what it the .040" lift at valve vs. valve lift intake.285" and exhaust .270"? It seems like those second numbers should be in degrees of when valve lift is at .040", no?

calj737 · « **Reply #337 on:** March 28, 2017, 06:29:12 AM »

bwaller · « **Reply #338 on:** March 28, 2017, 07:10:23 AM »

For a first time effort you can time the cam by the factory marks. That's all we did for many many years and everyone was happy.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #339 on:** March 28, 2017, 07:48:37 AM »

I got a modified cover and dial indicator as well as invested enough time in doing this right. I bit off more then I can chew, but I'm going to get it done. I have heard of people just puting the cam in but I don't want to do that. Cal, if you say those figures should be in degrees then there must be a misprint because they put ". I hope they didn't misprint anything else.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #340 on:** March 28, 2017, 09:28:04 AM »

Have a picture of the cam card?

AlekStooge · « **Reply #341 on:** March 28, 2017, 09:29:37 AM »

I will soon enough!

AlekStooge · « **Reply #342 on:** March 28, 2017, 03:51:19 PM »

Quote from: AlekStooge on March 28, 2017, 09:29:37 AM

I will soon enough!

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #343 on:** March 28, 2017, 05:02:31 PM »

I'm not sure what your question is, your original question above is confusing to me...I think there's a typo in there. The .285" for intake and .270" for exhaust is a distance measurement. It's the total lift of that valve. So the distance the valve traveled to be come fully open from fully closed. Not a degree measurement.

In order to degree the cam, this isn't really necessary to know. Only to confirm the grind of the cam it's necessary. Brent, MRieck or Cal, let me know if I'm off with this last paragraph

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #344 on:** March 28, 2017, 05:05:50 PM »

Anyway, now that the card is shown, your tappet clearance shouldn't be .003" for intake as you alluded to before, it's supposed to be .005". Valve lash and tappet clearance is the same thing. I could be confused and you just said .003" for sake of argument. If so, disregard this post

AlekStooge · « **Reply #345 on:** March 28, 2017, 06:12:49 PM »

.040" is at the distance at which the valve is open that Megacycle wants me to check my work? (except I'm using running clearance so it'll be .040" minus my valve lash number for he given valve).

The second picture is the lift at TDC with running clearance?

Dave you were right, I was mistaken when I adjusted my lash at .002" and .003" It is .005" and .006" per the card.

calj737 · « **Reply #346 on:** March 28, 2017, 06:50:40 PM »

Quote from: AlekStooge on March 28, 2017, 05:59:50 PM

Pretty sure Cal's yes was geared towards the question in the first paragraph, now that I look at it again.

Correct.

Dave's explanation of the timing card is correct also.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #347 on:** March 28, 2017, 07:22:12 PM »

And the degree wheel came loose.

I used my short ratchet and applied too much torque. I checked my tappets and three exhaust valves were loose at the same time when at zero. I guess this means I need to start over.

AlekStooge · « **Reply #348 on:** April 05, 2017, 05:26:25 PM »

Little help here please.

When I adjust my exhaust tappets the screw on 3 and 4 sits a lot higher than 1 and 2. I did this several times and made sure the rocker tappet hole was sitting against the valve stem when putting in the tappets.

In the first photo I adjusted 1 and 2 at TDC and then rotated the engine counterclockwise (alternator side) one revolution to TDC and adjusted 3 and 4 in second photo. I didn't finish because no matter how far I screw out I still get too much drag. I took out the tappets and I still get too much drag.

I speculate that possibly either those valves were put in improperly (I highly doubt that though because Mike Rieck did it) or my finding of true TDC is off. I was pretty meticulous about finding TDC so I don't know.

Also don't know if this will hint something to anyone but exhaust valve 1 is looser than intake 1,3 and exhaust 2, when all those are supposed to be tight.

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #349 on:** April 06, 2017, 04:34:38 AM »

Definitely an issue of you finding TDC...or you're finding TDC correctly and your cam install is incorrect.

If you're unscrewing the tappet that far and it's still tight, then that valve is more than likely open and putting pressure on the rocker.

Other than directing you to more info on how to install the cam and find TDC, seems to me like you'd benefit from having someone with you. Any members near by? How about that teacher you took the engine rebuilding class from?

If I was in the room with you, I would remove the rocker cover and verify the cam is installed correctly (1/4 TDC). Maybe by sticking a chopstick in the spark plug hole to visually watch the piston travel.

I would like to see more pictures. Pictures that are bright and clear and not as close up as the above. Feels like you're working in a dark closet with a headlamp. It's like you went spelunking and found an engine.

I want to see the cam notch and somehow to know that 1/4 is at TDC. Like the aforementioned stick in the hole. Again, not so close up, we're not observing mitochondria here.

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Author Topic: 78 CB 550K motor rebuild (Read 61335 times)