Author Topic: Braced swing arm  (Read 6452 times)

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Offline Scott S

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Braced swing arm
« on: November 13, 2016, 08:05:46 AM »
 This is for a 500/550, but I guess it's somewhat a generic question...

 There are a handful of threads here about bracing the swing arm. What are your thoughts on doing it for a 550? Really needed? More weight to move around back there?
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Bodi

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2016, 08:28:45 AM »
The old SOHC4 swingarms are rather rubbery, and several aftermarket replacements have been made over the decades.
An alloy one made with large section legs should be stiffer and lighter, both are good.
The usual modification to a stock one puts a reinforcing hoop between the legs, and/or adds stiffening webs along them. Stiffer, but heavier. Being heavier will negatively affect suspension compliance. The affect will be minor, though: the hub/wheel/tire weight is much greater than the change at the swingram (and the swingarm weight is not all at the axle, weight near the pivot doesn't make much change to the unsprung weight).
So probably stiffening a stock swingarm, done with some appreciation of the engineering principles involved (many "back yard" mods add metal and weight where it won't do much-  if anything - for stiffness), should be a good mod.
Needed? No. The frame and forks are quite flexible compared to a modern sportbike and adding sriffness to the swingarm won't improve handling appreciably. You can't turn a pig's ear into a silk purse so easily. And no, I don't think these bikes suck: I love them. I also appreciate that mid-70s bikes are not comparable to modern motorcycles in chassis or engine performance.

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 08:58:34 AM »
 Any more modern, lighter swing arms that are easily adaptable?
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 09:29:18 AM »
 The only thing about a modern swing arm though.....won't it be much wider at the rear/axle? That would be OK if you're lacing up a wider rear rim, but what if you want to keep the stock width or close to it? (I'm planning on running Lester's)
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 09:42:20 AM »
 Where does one find those? Only used, right?
'71 CB500 K0
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Offline strynboen

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2016, 09:59:44 AM »
i like the old Kawa exentric adjuster types sqvare box types... gpz 750-1000 erly 80,,,,suzuki used them later
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2016, 10:24:58 AM »


       Interesting read here. I have read about the "Swing Arm" thing before, but I never stopped to think about the frame itself being that flexible, though I should have, since I have read about adding gussets and such. My problem is, IF I were to try to upgrade the swing arm and frame, by doing any welding, I don't really know how to do a proper welding job and would have to have it done. And that takes some serious money, especially if your budget won't allow it. Always enjoy reading about in depth builds though and all the efforts, to build any particular Performing Ride.  8) ;)
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Offline Tim2005

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2016, 12:46:06 PM »
What are you using the 500/550 for? My pretty stock 550 handles well enough, actually very well, I don't see there's a lot of need for bracing its swingarm. I'd look at engine mods instead, as I find the 550 is a bit underpowered & lacking in excitement.

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2016, 01:13:55 PM »
What are you using the 500/550 for? My pretty stock 550 handles well enough, actually very well, I don't see there's a lot of need for bracing its swingarm. I'd look at engine mods instead, as I find the 550 is a bit underpowered & lacking in excitement.


The Yoshimura 10.5:1 CR pistons, cam and ported head oughta help out with that.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2016, 01:29:28 PM »
 Does anyone have the stock swing arm measurements? I don't have one that's not in a frame right now and it's just about impossible to measure.
 Length, width at pivot and at rear, axle size, please?
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2016, 02:20:36 PM »
I looked back on my build thread when I went from a '78 swing arm to a '75 from Cal (thanks buddy!). All the measurements were the same except the axle spacing on the '75 is 10-5/8" compared to 10-3/4" of the '78.

Unfortunately that's the only measurements I have and I don't have an extra swing arm. I'm sure someone has one lying around.

Offline Johnny340

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2016, 02:32:50 PM »
What about for a '75 CB750F?  I'm running a 17x4" rim on the back & a 17x3.5" on the front and figure the traction gained with modern sport bike tires may bring out more weakness in the original design.  Is there a stronger swingarm option for the 750 too or is an extra support bracket the way to go here also?  Braced underneath, or on top (with a different oil tank)?
1975 CB750F0 Super Sport
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Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 03:13:09 PM »
whatever you do, don't be tempted to buy the carpy dresda copy, it is total crap and only improves looks
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2016, 05:11:21 PM »
whatever you do, don't be tempted to buy the carpy dresda copy, it is total crap and only improves looks
Not a fan of his, but what specifically makes it total crap?
mine is made from flimsy tubeing and flexes more than stock yet somehow weighs just as much...axle spacers/adjusters are sized too small so that the tube crushes when axle nut is torqued...really seems like the carpster never intended for anyone to actually ride a bike that it was used on.

In my opinion the stock 750 arm is one of the better parts of the 1970's as long as the pivot bushings are tight.  The 550 arm is adequate for a lighter rider.  I am approaching 200lbs and the excellent handling of the cb550 encouraged limit pushing.  Leaned over far on bumpy roads, I could feel some squiggly wiggleing that I attributed to the flexy swingarm but it was never alarming.
If it works good, it looks good...

Offline Johnny340

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2016, 07:37:50 PM »
Btw, has anyone used an '83 Honda CB1100F swingarm? It's box type that looks strong.  Could that be made to fit?
1975 CB750F0 Super Sport
1972 CB750K2
1981 CB650
1974 T-500
2003 GSXR750
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Offline 754

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2016, 09:28:08 PM »
Most of the modern swingarms are at 3 or moe inches over the 750 arm...so 2-2 1/2 longer than yours, if they are monoshock, they are even longer..
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Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2016, 02:41:16 AM »
 Kawasaki Zephyr 550 seems awful close.

 Width at pivot: 9"
 At axle: Just over 13"
 Overall length: about 24" (he measured overall length, not center of pivot to center of axle adjustment range)

 Are those close enough to the (rough) 550 measurements I found?

 Pivot: 9.25"
 Axle: 10.25"
 Length: 21" (18" pivot center to axle center)
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2016, 05:18:53 AM »
 But remember, the total width at the rear includes the boxed swing  arm. I would like to know the width on the inside.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2016, 05:42:40 AM »
 The Zephyr swing arm comes with an axle and adjusters. Just have to get the correct wheel bearings and spacers. Not sure about the pivot bolt size, though.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2016, 12:29:47 PM »
 It is if I use the right bearings! ;)
 I asked him for axle size and pivot bolt size. He didn't ha e the bolt handy and just said axle was included. It has ZRX style eccentric adjusters, too.
'71 CB500 K0
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'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline bill440cars

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2016, 01:02:36 PM »


       Be looking forward to seeing the install of this swing arm.  ;)
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Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2016, 05:24:32 PM »
 I also got these measurements for a Zephyr 400 swing arm:

Width of pivot : 230mm (9 1/16")
Overall length : 610mm  (24 1/64")
Width of axle (outside to outside) : 330mm  (12 63/64" ....might as well call this one 13")
Inner diameter of pivot : 25mm (outside diameter of bearing)
Right handed inner diameter of axle : 17mm
Left haded inner diameter of axle : 22mm
Width of axle (inside to inside) : 253mm  (9 61/64")

 Not sure what he means by the RH and LH inner diamter of axle measurements or why they're different.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2016, 09:51:49 PM »
What shocks are you runnin, Scott?
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline Scott S

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Re: Braced swing arm
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2016, 02:32:55 AM »
What shocks are you runnin, Scott?

 Undecided at this time.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650