Topic: If you think of repairing the horn/PA switch...SOLVED AND HOW TO REUSE A BATTERY

[Deltarider]

Since long my sliding switch PA was lame, but the push for the horn still worked so I didn't bother to restore the PA function, as I don't signal with lightflashes, not on the bike. I had to pay attention whenever I operated the blinker switch because it was easy to slide the PA switch on unnoticed which brings on the high beam (ment for signals). Normally a spring or whatever returns that PA switch when released. Now sometimes I had the 60W high beam on (accidentely) and that annoyed me. I had the choice to go in there or improvise something on the outside with an elastic band. Wished I had chosen the latter. Now I have not only an inoperative PA but also the push function for the horn is no longer there. Here's my advice: don't be tempted to open such a switch assy. It's too complicated. You will never get it right again. So I probably have to look for one of these (see pic), a pity because I liked my clean and sober handlebars without extra's. If any of you have experience with that switch assy  (35200-341-600), well, as always I'm eager to learn but for now I'm fed up with it.

[robvangulik]

Your advise is some 30, or even more years too late, i fixed one of those switches in the early 80's already, and also the switch on my current 400 works again as it should although it wasn't even complete when i got it.
All those tiny parts are easily replicated using household materials like strips of plastic (oil) bottles, springs from ballpointpens and pieces of aluminium/steel plate, so long as you have examples like broken parts to make molds or drawings from.

[Deltarider]

Your advise is some 30, or even more years too late, i fixed one of those switches in the early 80's already, and also the switch on my current 400 works again as it should although it wasn't even complete when i got it.
All those tiny parts are easily replicated using household materials like strips of plastic (oil) bottles, springs from ballpointpens and pieces of aluminium/steel plate, so long as you have examples like broken parts to make molds or drawings from.

Thanks, Rob. I may have another look at it. I can live without that headlight flasher but what annoyes me is that the horn button is not there and with an add-on switch like shown above it will not be reached easily. I love the ergonomics of how OEM was designed.

[Johnny4428]

I have just had the experience of repairing the horn/pass switch on my 550k3. Actually I had a working horn but no pass switch working. When I dismantled the switch assembly I found the horn switch had previously been butchered. The black insulating tape holding it together had the butchered bells ringing. After posting on here Oddjob came to the rescue with a switch replacement that had the same problem as yours. This proved to be an easy fix with a selection of springs lying around I found one which wasn't too firm and just cut to length, sorted. Actually the most difficult part of the job was removing the M2 Phillips screw on the horn button, which I was desperate to save as I owned my bike for 30 years and never had one on it. The screw head after drilling to get better grip came right off, so I was plunged right back into that p..... off phase.  Returned to it quite few thoughtful days later got a piece of steel rod about 15mm long and about same diameter as screw head to fit in recess and drilled down through centre using as a guide to drill out remainder of small screw, worked a treat. I thought metal surrounded by plastic was going to beat me. So I now have a very good switch assembly ready for back on the bike. Good luck whichever route you choose.

[SoyBoySigh]

Well, RobVanGulik - I'd certainly like - scratch that I'd LOVE - to have you fandangle a four-wire starter button into the SOHC-4 era alloy switch-pot for me! Ha-ha. I mean, if you're comfortable with whipping that stuff up from scratch? Jeebuz that'd be a heck of a talent. To be able to, theoretically, wire in whatever type of controls one might wish for.

I mean, I get what you're saying about fabricating replacement bits. Very sensible stuff. But if we're talking about ALL of the switch's internal gubbins, that's a talent which could be put towards all sorts of further creativity. Just sayin'.

If it WERE feasible?

I'm trying to work out a combination here, where for my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber", which is to say an '82 CB900F which has been 'F-'d with a bit too much and is temporarily 'K0-d ha-ha. Until I put it together the way I WANT it to be....

So what I'm shooting for are the alloy switch-pots from the SOHC, wired for the DOHC - but with the cables oriented like the DOHC era "SPORT-KIT" style, with cables oriented forward & upward. How cool would THAT be? The DOHC 'F-ers don't really care all that much for the alloy housings but ya'll SOHC-ers have gotta wrap your heads around the "Sport-Kit" throttle. Methinks it's an idea which would catch on.

But the trick is, the DOHC has a headlight cut-out, very simply done via a starter-button which disengages two contact points while depressed, interrupting the headlight power and leaving all the cold cranking amps where they're NEEDED. Right?

Everything else is wired identically.

But if I were to do the SENSIBLE thing, there'd be a RELAY involved, a whole lot of extra wiring to route that relay to the FUSE BOX, and complicating the starter circuit in ways in which it would surely boggle one's brain wrapping the mind round this added complexity. Whereas in the simple four-wire interruption, it's just something you can put out of mind, knowing it's disengaged at the moment in question.

Besides which, I'm partial to internally wired handlebars. Due to my first bike being a '69 CB100K0, which I "hybridized" with a '70 SL100 usisng both rear rims & tires on alternate hubs, re-laced 'em without so much as a library book for help! Mayhaps this is the "experiment" I'm still stuck within..... Byt yeah - internally wired bars even if they're clip-on bars, just to clean everything up. Same deal with the "SPORT-KIT", well - using low bars you've gotta worry about scratching the tank - And with MY tank, a zillions hours hand-polished original CB1100R tank "toaster tank" style for the CB450K0 CB72/CB77 CB160 etc "homage" - Hey, I don't wanna TOUCH this tank without white cotton gloves & #$%*. Ha-ha. The "Sport-Kit" throttle really simplifies this type of thing. No need for DENTS purposefully hammered into the sides of the tank, no need to constantly check the cables' orientation & tension etc. It just FITS is all.

So hey - if anybody could work out a four-wire MOD for these switch-pots? That'd be the #$%*.

Though at the same time, grafting the Sport-Kit onto the SOHC - heck even the sport-kit REAR-SETS could be grafted onto the 'F2, come to think of it. Maybe the 'F1 for that matter. Definitely the 'F1 & the 'A Hondamatic! That would be some very cool stuff to do....

But the four-wire starter button would still be 'the #$%*"!


-Sigh.

[drumstyx]

Are you talking about the left hand cluster with the signal switch? At least on my 78, it's really not that bad to disassemble and clean...

[jonda500]

The horn/PA equipped part is very rarely seen for sale as American models didn't have the PA function built in to the horn button. I managed to find one after years of looking but alas, although the PA function works, the horn button doesn't .
Now after reading this thread, I'm a little worried about how hard it'll be to fix...
John

[Nic]

The horn/PA equipped part is very rarely seen for sale as American models didn't have the PA function built in to the horn button. I managed to find one after years of looking but alas, although the PA function works, the horn button doesn't .
Now after reading this thread, I'm a little worried about how hard it'll be to fix...
John

Here is Oz we got the PA function on some, this is off my K2, I completely disassembled, cleaned, lubed and put it back together, sure it's fiddly but very doable. The horn button is just one wire, pretty easy to re-terminate it. I have not been able to find this switch anywhere, I bought the horn only one from Yamiya and the turn sw crapped out in no time flat so I still have the 45 year old sw on mine, I like the pass function even if it's just to warn other bikes of coppers hiding up ahead under bushes like they do, I don't warn cagers though, I prefer them to be nabbed.

[Deltarider]

The 35200-341-600 assy that's on my model also has the hi/lo beam switch.

[Don R]

 I've never seen that one. I can see where it could be a bit fiddly. How about putting on a usa type one and calling it a day?

[Deltarider]

I've never seen that one. I can see where it could be a bit fiddly. How about putting on a usa type one and calling it a day?

Calling it a day? Are you kidding? That would involve routing the wires through the handlebar. Besides the models for Europe also had a different righthand side assy (starter button and a lightswitch with 3 positions: off, P, H.

[RAFster122s]

'74 550 have the three position light still or was it not then.  '69 S90 has all three positions.

Can you make a circuit board with copper etching?  Then silver solder those contacts. 

I think your relay to defeat the headlight would be easier than you think.  Relay triggered by power applied to starter. Relay opens contacts shutting down the headlamp power. The switching wiring to the relay can be small wires as they are low voltage/current.  Putting relays on headlamps and horns, etc. To pull load from going through switches is recommended.  Even a key switch relay for starter circuit should be considered. Hondaman has relay kits if you are desiring that route.  Micro relays are way to go, HondaMan uses good quality relays with resistor or diode protection built into the relay...

[RAFster122s]

Delta, is there room to put a tiny micro switch into the controls doing a little creative  routing out of material?  If you rewire your bike to use relays on all the functions of the switches you can reduce the size of the wires to much smaller as their current draw is going to fdrop into the very low values.  The starter and lights and horn should be done this way.
I wonder if there would be room to fit an M-button switch by MotoGadget?  They are high quality weather resistant  switches.

So, did you lose one of the tiny ball bearings or did you reassemble it wrong?
 SohRon has a switch rebuild/refurbish thread out there and there is a very recent thread about 3d printing the switch body for a horn or starter button recently.  Shapeways has the 3d code uploaded and it is like $10 for the switch body and shipping.

Therre are others here who have the 3d model skills needed to create the 3d models used by the printer to print a replacement part.

You might be able to talk the guy who did that recent 3d model into designing any broken plastic pieces for your switch.


You could have someone vac seal some exotic Australian animal waste so they could give this to a friend as a practical joke, give them the vac baggie of your DropBear or Roo or Wallaby Poo  to their friend along with a lighter with instructions to use said lighter to assist in delivery to them in a safe manner a flaming pile of Roo Poo or other esoteric joke.  Or maybe a 6 pack of a good Australian beer, none of this Fosters horse piss they sell posing as a good Aussie beer...maybe they don't actually claim it to be good but merely Australian.

Come up with a creative solution with a twist...

Do you have some photos or can you stick this back in the large clear plastic bag you use to restrain any bits that decide to try and bounce or fling themselves into the black hole where these things go, we all have them...

Carefully disassemble again, take a bunch of good clear photos of the beast to get the needed expertise for reassembly...the switch design will be of similar construction, merely different bits than your switch.  So, concept and operation a little different but easy enough to noodle it out, right?

David

[robvangulik]

@RAF, Soyboy and all except Jonda500, Delta has exactly the same switchés as I have on my 400, and all he wants is to get his horn button going, left side switch.  Nothing to do with the right side starterswitch, which doesn't incorporate any wires to the headlight, luckily we have a normal lighting on /off switch over here, we can switch the lights on or off as we please.
And Delta, it really isn't hard to get at least the horn function going again, it is indeed the high beam flash that makes it finicky, so if you don't need that, disable that and make some more room in there to make the horn go beep again.

[Deltarider]

I'll try. I have these wonderful Voxbell horns, sooo distinguished! I feel like a gentleman everytime I have to 'correct' someone in a pedal bucket.

[robvangulik]

Aha, with those two it might indeed be wise to use a relais with a direct wire from the battery, the amp draw could well tax that button to the limit....

[Deltarider]

The relay was installed when I fitted the horns together with a separate 15A fuse.

[robvangulik]

And still the button gave up? Most likely mechanical damage, and age. Do a good rebuild and you're good for the next 40 years

[Deltarider]

No, the horn button worked, but when I tried to repair the PA, the spring jumbed to freedom.

[robvangulik]

So indeed mechanical, combined with the black hole present in every workshop
But, springs are plenty, just find the right one...

[Deltarider]

Thanks to Rob's encouraging words, I took a deep breath and dove into that switch assy again. Soon I was already to give up and look for an extra switch instead, when I saw a possibility. As said before, I didn't and don't care much for that PA function, but I wanted my horn button back to function as before. Well, I've managed and maybe I could also have restored the PA function but I didn't want to push my luck. I closed the switch assy, but now I was back were I was before: a working push button but a lame PA switch that could accidentely slide to the right and so bring the High Beam on, which ment I had two filaments in that H4 burning at the same time because I was used to ride with 'low' on ('used to' because recently I've changed the 4w BA9s pilot lamp for a Philips 21 Watts halogen Ba9s, more than enough for a DRL). So I decided not to open the switch assy again but to solve the problem the way we used to in Africa. Look at the pics, if you will. Made a small lasso of some thin fishwire, connected this to an elastic hairband you find in the streets by the thousands and put it over the bolt that is/was already there in the front. Just added a flat washer and nut to prevent it to come down. Maybe I overdid it but I had this nut and flat washer already so no expense here. Besides it's always handy to have an extra nut and washer when a more urgent repair requires these e-ven-tu-ally. Tested and it works: the slide will stay in the Horn push position unless my thumb operates it to the right for a flash. This is the repair I originally had in mind and I cursed myself I didn't do it rightaway. During the testride and in a deserted tunnel I happily sounded my Voxbells again. Man, I was ever so pleased to hear my old comrades again. What a sound!

[robvangulik]

If it works, why not. But keep an eye on it, those elastics are very UV sensitive, so dissolve over time.
I would have put a small strip of rubber or foam in the switch to prevent the light from coming on by itself, invisible from the outside too....

[cb750f-2010656]

I'd 'v just let the 60 watts burn.  My low beam doest work anyway.

[jonda500]

The alternator may struggle to keep up with both beams left continually burning simultaneously, you'd have a nice bright headlight though (-but still not as blindingly bright as the annoying modern hi-tec led fukkers!).
John

[Deltarider]

The alternator may struggle to keep up with both beams left continually burning simultaneously,

Not that I've noticed but I don't know how long both were on. BTW, I wonder why so many in this forum discuss 'the shortcoming' of the CB500/550 charging system. The other day, out of curiosity, I connected an ammeter between the kill switch and the coils. I measured around 3A at idle and around 2A when revved. Coils are 3Ω in combination with breakerpoints. The latter for the moment, because right now I'm repairing my homebuilt transistor ignition*. As soon I have reinstalled it, I'll repeat the measuring. All for science ofcourse.
* Have a look at my workbench (kitchentable) if you will. I have both modules working again. For tests I use the old TEC coils with a piece of transparent vinyl over the ends of the facing HT leads to check for correct sparking and... in the picture you may recognise an old friend, yes indeed - resurrected from death - it's that 8-9 years old Saito battery that I abandoned lately when it proved not reliable anymore. But guess what, it's still good for testing and afterwards it still showed 12,4 Volts! How about that?! After I've completed my tests, I might donate 'Old Faithfull' to a friend who owns a classic Zündapp db200 that has 6 Volts. Just a couple of resistors and zeners and it should be good for years for him. But I won't give it to him before voltage has dropped to 7-8 Volts ofcourse.

[jonda500]

If you make a hole in the transparent vinyl and poke a led pencil through into the sparks pathway you can check and take note of coil polarity -I can't remember for certain, but I think it should flare towards the engine side. I'd love to know for certain if the polarity is reversed for #1 compared t #4 (personally I don't believe it is.)?
John
ps My 1st500 used to be wired so that selecting high beam didn't switch off low beam so both were on simultaneously and actually, until my battery got very old, I never had any problems. (Do not be a parrot, lesson learned  ) 
The tail light was wired always on, and one day after the battery got sus it died and I had to disconnect the tail light wire under the seat to get it to start again. (I replaced the battery after that!!) 

[Deltarider]

If you make a hole in the transparent vinyl

Interesting suggestion. With a hole in that vinyl tube I will smell even more ozon whilst testing than now. Very exciting smell, btw, must have smelled like that during the big bang. A warning: don't be tempted to test sparking and have the battery being charged at the same time. That certainly could make a big bang. Now I come to think of it: could that have been the origin of the big bang, the Creator being careless with batteries, I mean?

and poke a led pencil through into the sparks pathway you can check and take note of coil polarity -I can't remember for certain, but I think it should flare towards the engine side. I'd love to know for certain if the polarity is reversed for #1 compared t #4 (personally I don't believe it is.)?

Good question. I seem to remember my timing light induction clamp had to be flipped, so that indicates some sort of polarity. Actually I believe it's a relative thing and the current is not like the AC we have at home. I mean in our ignition system we don't see the sinus going through the zero line. That's why I like to think of a third category: lightning. Like you I want to know some more on this, that's why I've asked the experts. They're still studying it. 

ps My 1st500 used to be wired so that selecting high beam didn't switch off low beam so both were on simultaneously and actually, until my battery got very old, I never had any problems. (Do not be a parrot, lesson learned  )

This drainage thing is an US phenomenon where folks use motorcycles at too low rpm, stand at traffic lights a lot and use them for distances where we prefer a bicycle.

The tail light was wired always on, and one day after the battery got sus it died and I had to disconnect the tail light wire under the seat to get it to start again. (I replaced the battery after that!!)

  A taillight during daylight is not very usefull and actually makes the brakelight less noticed. I might install an extra switch to just bring on my DRL (21 Watts Ba9s halogen) and not the taillight and not the instruments lights. On entering a tunnel I would simply have to switch the original lightswitch to 'P' to add taillight and instruments lights.