Author Topic: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?  (Read 8580 times)

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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2017, 08:31:03 AM »
Ha ha - personal collection of useless broken sohc parts - I have an extensive collection of these too, I'm not sure why, but you just never know right?
John

Lol no my collection is of a wide variety. Anytime I get something really awful in my automotive shop I save the worst of it. Old cracked pistons and rods mostly.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2017, 01:40:05 PM »
Btw, this was very tempting but you can't see how the cam really looks. Have at it boys. Great price if the cam is usable. I'm going to chance my stocker.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/132217837216


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2017, 05:19:32 PM »
Offer stands, pm me

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2017, 05:47:26 AM »


This is ok right? one of them is a little too high which I will correct.


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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2017, 06:53:05 AM »
Yes, that's good. Assuming your carbs are level in the vise.


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2017, 09:31:18 AM »
I thought it was supposed to be a smidge lower than that?

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2017, 10:05:38 AM »
Pshh, I can't read millimeters over the Internet. I'm assuming that's roughly 3mm. Forgive me if it's 2.8mm haha


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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2017, 12:15:17 PM »
I forget, its it the distance from the seam or the distance from the lip that is the mark?

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2017, 12:48:43 PM »
Pshh, I can't read millimeters over the Internet. I'm assuming that's roughly 3mm. Forgive me if it's 2.8mm haha


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Lol it must be insanely difficult to get exactly 3mm without doing this 30 times.


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Offline flybox1

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2017, 12:52:42 PM »
Looks good to me   8)
Please proceed
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2017, 01:07:30 PM »
I forget, its it the distance from the seam or the distance from the lip that is the mark?

The seam. The same surface used when you measure float height.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2017, 08:01:24 AM »


Look at the difference in bow between the one I got and the one I took out. Very nice, much like!


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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2017, 08:05:43 AM »
I assume yours is on the left. Nice, should get much more (the proper amount of) tension. And make sure the bottom part is in it's pocket.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2017, 03:53:06 AM »
The 4 into 1 slipper that cow man discovered for the tensioner is really nice. Let's hope it lasts as well as it looks out of the box.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2017, 06:13:12 PM »
A few things,

Powdercoating on the cylinder and head is a no no from here on in. I was one of those who didn't think it would effect cooling. That was naive. Not only do I think that this engine has had heat soak issues, the powdercoating on the head snuck on to the head nut seats. Not an issue initially, and definitely not an issue now, but after a few heat cycles, that cured powder doesn't take torque, and flattens out. In other words, I may as well have had aluminum washers under the head bolts. Too late to scrap it all now though. I torqued the nuts on the ape studs to 16ft lbs and will go back over them tomorrow to 18. Because after all, time plus pressure on a 35 year old NOS gasket couldn't hurt.




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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2017, 04:29:57 AM »
Would powder really insulate the motor that much to cause damage? I don't think so. Yes, powder is an insulator but you're not wrapping the motor in an asbestos blanket. Motors are painted from factory too. I'm not convinced.

Regarding the head nut seats, who cares if there's flattened powder there? A retourque is always recommended. Are you saying that over time it flattens more reducing torque? I could buy that. Actually I just thought about it more, yeah probably not good. It should have been masked or removed after.

Either way, keep trucking!

P.S. I normally have the loose cam chain on the other side of the cam gear. There's more room over there. I put the chain on the gear and then lift the gear onto the cam. You need much more chain slack to get it over the teeth. Now with a proper tensioner (new chain?) you might not have that slack.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2017, 07:43:33 AM »
Would powder really insulate the motor that much to cause damage? I don't think so. Yes, powder is an insulator but you're not wrapping the motor in an asbestos blanket. Motors are painted from factory too. I'm not convinced.

Regarding the head nut seats, who cares if there's flattened powder there? A retourque is always recommended. Are you saying that over time it flattens more reducing torque? I could buy that. Actually I just thought about it more, yeah probably not good. It should have been masked or removed after.

Either way, keep trucking!

P.S. I normally have the loose cam chain on the other side of the cam gear. There's more room over there. I put the chain on the gear and then lift the gear onto the cam. You need much more chain slack to get it over the teeth. Now with a proper tensioner (new chain?) you might not have that slack.


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Yeah it flattens over time. Not good. The head bolts did seem a bit loose on disassembly. Or rather not as tight as they should have been. It all depends on how well the powder dissipates heat. There are different powders of different chemical compositions. Some are polyester, some are other mixes. It would be interesting to know for sure how well the different types insulate.

No new chain. I didn't want to risk a chain with a master. I just put the cam in there to check the chain on the sprocket. It would seem as though even with the tensioner all the way compressed, there is very little play. This is great news. Hopefully everything else will work as well as this new tensioner did.


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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2017, 11:26:19 AM »
Honda used aluminized/metalized paint and a very thin coating to preserve heat transfer to the air passing over the surface of the motor.

I learned from my days selecting cooling fins for power supplies that a coating has a very detrimental effect on heat conduction, and it doesn't take much to have a dramatic effect on heat transfer.  Most were anodized aluminum for this reason and never painted.   And black was the best color for emission and absorption. My concern back then was the junction temperature of the silicon devices.  But, the cooling fins on our motors perform exactly the same function as the power supply cooling fins, and the transfer characteristics of heat remain exactly the same.

I would never powder coat a heat transfer surface without knowing the heat conductive characteristics of the coating and the thickness control method being used.
There are some coating materials that have conductive additives (metal flakes usually).  But, silica flakes (also reflective shiny) do not conduct heat very well.

We have air cooled motors, and when it matters most (hot temps and hard running the motor) is when heat transfer is needed the most.  It does matter, as there is no regulation of delivered air volume to take the heat away.  And once the oil temp tolerance is exceeded, engine wear is soon to follow. 

Anyway, adding cooling fin (and engine body) insulation is equivalent of stagnating the air flow over the engine.  Does anyone really think this is a good idea?

Now, perhaps to compensate for thick insulating powder coating you could add a fan out front to ensure adequate compensatory air exchange...  Not a trade off I would make, though.  But, if slow moving parades (or traffic congestion) are your thing, it might allow your engine to survive.

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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2017, 03:16:39 AM »
Honda used aluminized/metalized paint and a very thin coating to preserve heat transfer to the air passing over the surface of the motor.

I learned from my days selecting cooling fins for power supplies that a coating has a very detrimental effect on heat conduction, and it doesn't take much to have a dramatic effect on heat transfer.  Most were anodized aluminum for this reason and never painted.   And black was the best color for emission and absorption. My concern back then was the junction temperature of the silicon devices.  But, the cooling fins on our motors perform exactly the same function as the power supply cooling fins, and the transfer characteristics of heat remain exactly the same.

I would never powder coat a heat transfer surface without knowing the heat conductive characteristics of the coating and the thickness control method being used.
There are some coating materials that have conductive additives (metal flakes usually).  But, silica flakes (also reflective shiny) do not conduct heat very well.

We have air cooled motors, and when it matters most (hot temps and hard running the motor) is when heat transfer is needed the most.  It does matter, as there is no regulation of delivered air volume to take the heat away.  And once the oil temp tolerance is exceeded, engine wear is soon to follow. 

Anyway, adding cooling fin (and engine body) insulation is equivalent of stagnating the air flow over the engine.  Does anyone really think this is a good idea?

Now, perhaps to compensate for thick insulating powder coating you could add a fan out front to ensure adequate compensatory air exchange...  Not a trade off I would make, though.  But, if slow moving parades (or traffic congestion) are your thing, it might allow your engine to survive.

Cheers,

Lol not my thing, but I do live in NJ which might as well be Los Angeles.

A lot of people powdercoat their engine, but again, I don't know how many of them regularly commute with their 550 like I do. I'm 50/50 highway, and congested traffic for 40 miles a day. Harley Davidson uses some sort of black coating, the cases are powder, I don't know about the cylinders.

Anodized head and cylinders would be trick. You have to polish before anodizing though I think which would be nearly impossible in certain areas.


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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Slight hang in idle after carbs rebuilt?
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2017, 04:43:40 PM »
And these work a lot better than my stripped out stock ones and for 10$ for 10 can't go wrong.




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