Author Topic: Adjustable cam gear  (Read 2891 times)

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Offline Johnny340

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Adjustable cam gear
« on: October 08, 2017, 05:18:52 PM »
Am I correct in concluding that I should not use my stock, non adjustable, cam gear to go in my new 836 engine with a CX-3 cam (63A)?  Getting an adjustable gear and degreeing in the cam would be the best choice for performance, yes?  Do guys slot their stock gear?
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Offline kmb69

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 05:54:22 PM »
Am I correct in concluding that I should not use my stock, non adjustable, cam gear to go in my new 836 engine with a CX-3 cam (63A)?  Getting an adjustable gear and degreeing in the cam would be the best choice for performance, yes?  Do guys slot their stock gear?

Yep, that works.

Offline innovativems

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 07:12:59 PM »
Mrieck on here did mine.  He is recovering from a shoulder surgery though


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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 08:07:01 PM »
You can get a new adjustable from Dynoman or [sometimes] CycleX, too. You'll probably have to slightly grind out the slots, as they are plated post-machine, and the slots get a little slim.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
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Offline 754

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 09:01:10 PM »
 APE   ACS 750 H is the one you need. If you have access to a rotary table it is easy to slot them yourself.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 09:57:08 PM »
Grind a Honda sprocket as much you need. The adjustable sprockets can handle a cam chain that is set 1 tooth "wrong".
I have a grinded sprocket that is opened around 2 mm in both directions.
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CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline 754

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2017, 10:20:17 PM »
There is a flanged Yamaha bolt, many are using for better grip, the part number escapes me , maybe someone has it.?
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline PeWe

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 09:58:05 AM »
The Suzuki bolt have even wider head. I use that one. My tuner here told me what he might put in my engine early 80's. A bolt I searched for.
Here a thread were I compare different cam bolts, Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha often recommended
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,157585.msg1805937.html#msg1805937
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Johnny340

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 10:34:28 AM »
Good info, thx!

Any suggestions what to run a CX-3 cam at in this Wiseco 836?
1975 CB750F0 Super Sport
1972 CB750K2
1981 CB650
1974 T-500
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 01:00:19 PM »
Good info, thx!

Any suggestions what to run a CX-3 cam at in this Wiseco 836?
I'd recommend splitting the increased dwell time across the intake-exhaust degrees, based on the intake valve.
For example (I don't know the CX-3 specs, but same idea), if the dwell is quoted as being "30 degrees more than stock", and stock is 5 degrees open BTC and 5 degrees close ABC, then adjust the cam to open at (5+(30/2))=20 degrees BTC and close 20 degrees ABC.

There are other methods, which shift the power earlier or later, depending on your needs, but know this (if you understand some calculus): the area under the power curve is constant, regardless of how you shape it with the cam, for a given lift number. So...if the power comes on at, say, 4500 RPM when you set the new cam as above, but you instead shift the cam back about 5 degrees (open at 15 degrees, close at 20 degrees) then the power will also start later, more toward 5000 RPM and it peaks out higher when it reaches the max efficiency for that cam dwell angle. Since the upper RPM is mechanically limited  by the valve-piston clearance, there is a practical upper limit to this: if you go above 10,500 RPM for the upper end, you'll probably need some more valve spring to keep the parts out of each other's sphere of influence...
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Johnny340

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2017, 07:05:47 PM »
Good info, thx!

Any suggestions what to run a CX-3 cam at in this Wiseco 836?
I'd recommend splitting the increased dwell time across the intake-exhaust degrees, based on the intake valve.
For example (I don't know the CX-3 specs, but same idea), if the dwell is quoted as being "30 degrees more than stock", and stock is 5 degrees open BTC and 5 degrees close ABC, then adjust the cam to open at (5+(30/2))=20 degrees BTC and close 20 degrees ABC.

There are other methods, which shift the power earlier or later, depending on your needs, but know this (if you understand some calculus): the area under the power curve is constant, regardless of how you shape it with the cam, for a given lift number. So...if the power comes on at, say, 4500 RPM when you set the new cam as above, but you instead shift the cam back about 5 degrees (open at 15 degrees, close at 20 degrees) then the power will also start later, more toward 5000 RPM and it peaks out higher when it reaches the max efficiency for that cam dwell angle. Since the upper RPM is mechanically limited  by the valve-piston clearance, there is a practical upper limit to this: if you go above 10,500 RPM for the upper end, you'll probably need some more valve spring to keep the parts out of each other's sphere of influence...
Thanks for the reply Mark, but I don't know what the dwell is on this cam.  Does this pic of the specs help?



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Offline Johnny340

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2017, 04:30:08 PM »
So I slotted the stock gear myself.  I got 248° for duration measured at .050" and ended up setting the cam at 97° lobe center for the intake which was 100° for the exhaust. That's what the girls at webcam said to do.
Does anyone know what the purpose of the bolt in the end of the camshaft is for?  (8mmx20 with a washer)  The new cam has this hole tapped too..

Couple pics of the setup I used if anyone is searching here later:
1975 CB750F0 Super Sport
1972 CB750K2
1981 CB650
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Offline 754

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2017, 07:10:49 PM »
The bolt and washef somewhat control sideplay  I am thinking.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Johnny340

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Re: Adjustable cam gear
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2017, 08:30:21 PM »
That sounds logical.  Thanks for the response Frank.
Cheers,
John
1975 CB750F0 Super Sport
1972 CB750K2
1981 CB650
1974 T-500
2003 GSXR750
2006 YZ250