Author Topic: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4  (Read 9759 times)

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Offline HondaFreak

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Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« on: April 29, 2018, 01:42:11 pm »
Hi All - I apologise for being an infrequent contributor to the forum of late, but I am geographically "out of the loop" with Davies Motorsport since returning to the Homeland of the Isle of Man.

However.....John & the team have finally cracked the 70bhp ceiling with this year's 500/4. Now figures higher than that have been seen previously, but not at the baseline, local dyno where 99% of the runs are conducted. 70.4bhp was seen at the last dyno session, using open meggas & the most recent engine.
In less than a month, that bike will be at the Pre-TT races on the IoM, at full power, so we will see how it fairs.
Alan Oversby raced the bike this weekend at Snetterton in the CRMC meeting and won the ACU500 race, with 2bhp less (silenced) and a drum brake. Plus he put in the fastest lap.

There should be more to come too, with a new revised cylinder head going on this week, with new pistons to match.

When I first came on here asking for advice, the consensus was that the 500/4 was easy to get 65bhp out of, but a bugger to get more. You weren't wrong. It has taken 6 years of fettling, a dry clutch, a deep sump, extended engine fins, multiple exhaust systems, a cylinder head developed in Australia, all manner of crankcase breathers and a whole load more to get to this point.
In 2013 William Dunlop delivered a fantastic lap at the Classic TT in excess of 109mph. Last year, all three riders were above 106 and the two finishers both regularly delivered laps in excess of 108mph & William clocked 138.9mph through the speed trap. The target has always been 110mph average on a lap and 140mph through the speed trap. There is even a new (more classic) fairing for 2018, so here's hoping.

I will endeavour to update this after the Pre-TT.

Cheers,

Peter
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 02:33:32 pm by HondaFreak »

Offline Tintop

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2018, 03:14:17 pm »
Look forward to hearing / seeing how this years IoM goes.  Thanks for posting the update.
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Offline Hasenkopf

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2018, 04:15:41 pm »
Can't wait to see what that head looks like! 8)
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 08:26:11 am »
500cc is the actual displacement?
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Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2018, 08:55:19 am »
 Yes. It is a 500cc engine. It has new barrels & pistons but retains the 500cc caacity.

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2018, 09:09:47 am »
I am interested to hear more about your crankcase venting system. I am trying some things on my 750 race bike and would like to see what you have done. Can you/are you willing to be more specific about things like exhaust and more cooling fins?
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline bwaller

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 11:58:04 am »
That's a nice round number, (70 that is) congratulations. John must be happy to get over the hump!

Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2018, 02:22:58 pm »
He is bloody made up. 70.4 bhp is the actual figure.

I will ask John for some photos of the venting system. I will dig a photo of the fins out too.

Photo of Alan Oversby racing the 500/4 this weekend. Running a 4-1 for noise regs. 4-4 open meggas for the Pre-TT :-)

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 02:47:41 pm »
pretty small rear tire... what sizes is it running?

Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2018, 03:03:17 pm »
110/80 Avon, I think. Originally had a 130 but reverted to the 1110, as far as I know.

Offline gschuld

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2018, 03:20:41 pm »
The new fairing looks great!  👍

George

Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 01:57:16 am »
John confirmed it was originally a 130 rear tyre but the riders complained it scrubbed off too much speed on the fast corners, particularly on the IoM, & hence reverted to the 110/80, both for road & short track racing. The Avon tyres are very good, to be fair.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 02:06:17 am by HondaFreak »

Offline scottly

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 09:24:18 am »
I, for one, would like to see the dyno graph.  8)
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Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 10:11:43 am »
Dyno graph, or the end of, attached. Plus read out. We have had other people run Davies Motorsport 500/4 bikes on other dynos and read 73/74, however John has been using the same local dyno at JT Racing since this 500/4 project started. It might be capable of more, given that the graph hasn't peaked, but there is an electronic limit set by the ignition on rpm, for engine longevity. The limit is set at 11,500rpm.

I will put the engine spec. on later after I have checked the information with John.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 10:15:12 am by HondaFreak »

Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 10:59:18 am »
Below is the basic spec for the 500/4 engine.

DMS camshaft
DMS slipper pistons
DMS conrods
Lightened crank
Re-sleeved bores
Increased cylinder finning
6-speed Nova transmission
Lightened Nova main gear
520 chain & sprockets
Increased inlet valve diameters.
Nova dry clutch conversion (roads only)
Deeper sump & increased oil capacity.
Front mounted oil cooler
36mm CR carburettors
4-4 open megaphone titanium exhaust.

Offline livefast_dieold

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 11:28:28 am »
John confirmed it was originally a 130 rear tyre but the riders complained it scrubbed off too much speed on the fast corners, particularly on the IoM, & hence reverted to the 110/80, both for road & short track racing. The Avon tyres are very good, to be fair.

Everyone here is using Continental CR2, can't you use radial tyres?

Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 11:34:30 am »
I think the choice is just Dunlop or Avon. I will check though. What sizes are you using?

Offline teebee67

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2018, 01:59:37 pm »
CR tyres are ok over here and Hedenaus are also good.
I'm only old on the outside.

Offline MRieck

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2018, 02:04:16 pm »
Below is the basic spec for the 500/4 engine.

DMS camshaft
DMS slipper pistons
DMS conrods
Lightened crank
Re-sleeved bores
Increased cylinder finning
6-speed Nova transmission
Lightened Nova main gear
520 chain & sprockets
Increased inlet valve diameters.
Nova dry clutch conversion (roads only)
Deeper sump & increased oil capacity.
Front mounted oil cooler
36mm CR carburettors
4-4 open megaphone titanium exhaust.
I hope you mean 26mm CR's  ;D
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Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2018, 02:15:16 pm »
Oh yes. They are on the 350! :-)  Sorry. Good job someone is paying attention.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2018, 03:00:53 pm »
good on you getting this numbers with 26's, good flow is found mostly in port design.
Ric,i think that in the CRMC class that bike is raced ,radials are not allowed.

Offline teebee67

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 12:43:41 am »
I don't race with CRMC but I am pretty sure radials are allowed. Their rules state:

TYRES: Shall be in accordance with ACU Standing Regulations for Road Racing Club events.
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Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2018, 02:34:22 am »
I checked with John. Definitely 26mm carbs. A bank of four CRs. The head is heavily modified - ports & valves.

He also said he'd tested some radials but Alan didn't get on with them, feel wise. So they have stuck with the AM22/23 tyres.

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2018, 06:14:54 am »
Any news on the crank case venting system, or the cooling modifications?
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline HondaFreak

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Re: Reaching 70hp with a 500/4
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2018, 12:51:13 pm »
John will get me some photos of the crankcase breathing system next week when the engine is back together. It's in pieces at the moment awaiting new pistons tomorrow & the new head.