Topic: New regulator/rectifier not charging

[rotortiller]

Reducing the spring tension on the stock regulator drops the voltage. There is a screw and lock nut for the adjustment under the regulator cover.

[TwoTired]

Are you absolutely sure that the regulator is "seeing" true battery voltage?

[rupaulpierce]

Are you absolutely sure that the regulator is "seeing" true battery voltage?

Is that measured by taking a voltage reading on the black wire?

If so, I’m getting battery voltage between the black wire on the harness and the negative battery terminal with the key on.




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[scottly]

The chinese one was putting out over 17V.

At last report (and one back at the beginning of this epic), the cheap reg was putting out 13-13.2V?

[rupaulpierce]

The chinese one was putting out over 17V.

At last report (and one back at the beginning of this epic), the cheap reg was putting out 13-13.2V?

What you’ve missed was I discovered a broken spade on the red wire in the rectifier connector. Must have fell apart when I swapped them, so proper voltage was never flowing through the system.


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[scottly]

The chinese one was putting out over 17V.

At last report (and one back at the beginning of this epic), the cheap reg was putting out 13-13.2V?

What you’ve missed was I discovered a broken spade on the red wire in the rectifier connector. Must have fell apart when I swapped them, so proper voltage was never flowing through the system.


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No, I didn't miss the broken spade. After repair, you posted 13-13.2V, then it suddenly jumped to to 17V???

[rupaulpierce]

The chinese one was putting out over 17V.

At last report (and one back at the beginning of this epic), the cheap reg was putting out 13-13.2V?

What you’ve missed was I discovered a broken spade on the red wire in the rectifier connector. Must have fell apart when I swapped them, so proper voltage was never flowing through the system.


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No, I didn't miss the broken spade. After repair, you posted 13-13.2V, then it suddenly jumped to to 17V???

At idle, then I took it out and rode it around. Under load it was getting up there.


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[TwoTired]

The regulator's job is to keep the battery voltage below upper limit.  It can only do this if it is told the true battery voltage.

Haven't we been over this?

The black to green voltage at the regulator must be the same as the POS to NEG Reading at the battery.  If it is and the voltage is too high, there's a good indication of a failed regulator.

Another way to investigate is putting one meter probe on the POS battery terminal and the other on the black vreg terminal.  Note threading and then test one meter probe on the battery NEG terminal and another on the vreg green terminal.  The sum of these two readings is the lie delivered to the vreg.

Any vreg that allows the vreg sense terminals to reach 17v, without reducing the vreg white terminal voltage, is demonstrating failed behavior.

Cheers,

[rupaulpierce]

The regulator's job is to keep the battery voltage below upper limit.  It can only do this if it is told the true battery voltage.

Haven't we been over this?

The black to green voltage at the regulator must be the same as the POS to NEG Reading at the battery.  If it is and the voltage is too high, there's a good indication of a failed regulator.

Another way to investigate is putting one meter probe on the POS battery terminal and the other on the black vreg terminal.  Note threading and then test one meter probe on the battery NEG terminal and another on the vreg green terminal.  The sum of these two readings is the lie delivered to the vreg.

Any vreg that allows the vreg sense terminals to reach 17v, without reducing the vreg white terminal voltage, is demonstrating failed behavior.

Cheers,

Yes, thanks for the patience TwoTired.

Battery voltage: 13.33V (lithium)
Vreg black to green: 12.98V

POS batt to vreg black: .362V
NEG batt to vreg green: 0V

[TwoTired]

When you made those measurements, did you have maximum load on the system? All lighting on?

I will comment that you reported 17v earlier and now report normal voltage.
When troubleshooting a problem, one usually wants to see the circuit voltages that occur while exhibiting the problem.

Under what conditions do you see the 17v?  You have to get into that fault condition, to isolate the component(s) that aren't doing the job properly.

[rupaulpierce]

When you made those measurements, did you have maximum load on the system? All lighting on?

I will comment that you reported 17v earlier and now report normal voltage.
When troubleshooting a problem, one usually wants to see the circuit voltages that occur while exhibiting the problem.

Under what conditions do you see the 17v?  You have to get into that fault condition, to isolate the component(s) that aren't doing the job properly.

No load with this test. lights off.

17V was while riding the bike at 5k+ RPM.




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[TwoTired]

Haven't we already explained that resistance in the power distribution circuit will be affected by the current drawn through it?  Any given resistance will increase the voltage drop with increases in current demand.

This is ohm's law.  E= I x R.    In this case  E = Vdrop.  So any increase in I (current drawn) will have direct impact on Vdrop without ever changing R.

Your voltage drop testing report is not representative of your riding about town. It is not representative to your problem report.

This is like complaining about your right hand hurting, and then examining your left hand for clues as to why.

[TwoTired]

This is like complaining about your right hand hurting, and then examining your left hand for clues as to why.

Are you trying to say this doesn't work? 

Don't you have any shiny things nearby that require your gaze ?

Cheers,

[rupaulpierce]

This is like complaining about your right hand hurting, and then examining your left hand for clues as to why.

Are you trying to say this doesn't work? 

Don't you have any shiny things nearby that require your gaze ?

Cheers,

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[rupaulpierce]

Sorry TwoTired, I’m just not following. I thought you asked me to do the Vdrop test.


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[Bodi]

Voltage drop is dependent on power load. Test with the bike running and lights on.

[rupaulpierce]

Sorry to revive this, but wanted to recap and close it out for any poor souls who happen upon this thread in the future.

The initial issue was high and irregular voltage with the stock units, spiking above 15V. This was a problem for me specifically because I "upgraded" to a lithium battery and didn't want to cook it.

I ordered a chinese reg/rec combo, wired conveniently for the stock CB350F/400F harness. However, after installing the new reg/rec, I had an under charging condition putting out sub-13V. This was due to the spade on the insulated red wire inside the harness-side rectifier connector being broken. I have seen this referenced elsewhere as a common issue. I'm guessing the insulation retains moisture? After repairing the connection I again had charging voltage, but once again too high (above 15V) and irregular even with the new reg/rec unit. I inquired with the seller and these units should have a voltage ceiling of around 14.8V. The reg/rec unit failed a diode test on the rectifier, so I ordered a replacement reg/rec unit. The second unit works fine, regulating voltage around 14V. The first unit was defective, or I toasted it being careless when troubleshooting.

Long story short, check ohms on your grounds AND your powered circuit before going on a wild goose chase. Diode test the rectifier. Pay homage to Scottly, Calj737, and their father TwoTired.

[TwoTired]

Glad you got it sorted.  Perseverance can be a good thing!

Cheers,

[Spanner 1]

Great !.. now put back the stock regulator, which ( again x50 ) there was nothing wrong with, or enjoy your 'solid state' reg/rect which hates a stock wet battery . That's fine if your riding radius is like 50 miles like all young CB whippersnappers seem to be maxed out at

[rupaulpierce]

Great !.. now put back the stock regulator, which ( again x50 ) there was nothing wrong with, or enjoy your 'solid state' reg/rect which hates a stock wet battery . That's fine if your riding radius is like 50 miles like all young CB whippersnappers seem to be maxed out at

Do 'solid state' regulators hate lithium batteries too?

[TwoTired]

Great !.. now put back the stock regulator, which ( again x50 ) there was nothing wrong with, or enjoy your 'solid state' reg/rect which hates a stock wet battery . That's fine if your riding radius is like 50 miles like all young CB whippersnappers seem to be maxed out at

Do 'solid state' regulators hate lithium batteries too?

Some do, some don't.  Is yours adjustable?  What is the peak voltage it maintains/limits at the battery?

LiFePO4 Battery Charging peak for a 4 cell unit S/B 14.6 V to keep from overcharging.

Cheers,

[rupaulpierce]

Non-adjustable, peak voltage is 14.8V. EarthX says not to pulse above 15V.

[PeWe]

I have also a cheap rectifier-regulator for my CB750. Mine from Aliexpress. I bought it since the price was less than half compared with other sellers on eBay. Around $25US with shipping, no customs.

After reading all threads with charging problem I will stick to stock that works fine and always had. Just invest in a voltage measuring LED that will lit green when OK, flash red when too high, yellow when too low. I have adjusted my regulator since I got some short intervals of red flashing. OK, it will work fine without voltage control too when the charger system with all wires, connectors and regulator are serviced  according to Honda manual.

I do not know how this one work, but I have heard that some of these have no proper regulator. Run full voltage constantly, regulator burn the over voltage away which will explain why these runs so hot and need plenty of cooling. Stock generator has a field coil that throttle the charging by the regulator relative battery voltage.
I might invest in another regulator only, as some guys make in Germany. Old stock with electronics inside in instead of the relay to get better charging from 2000rpm instead of after 4000 rpm

[TwoTired]

Non-adjustable, peak voltage is 14.8V. EarthX says not to pulse above 15V.

Do you understand the difference between pulsing and maintaining a constant voltage over 14.6V?  Pulsing, ideally, allows the chemistry to relax below stress levels, and implies there is a frequency or duty cycle of unspecified duration.  How long a "Pulse" is tolerable?  1 second, 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 Day?  When you are cruising down the highway at speed, the voltage will be held above accepted max technology thresholds.  Is such a voltage duration a short enough "pulse" to qualify?

Hey, it is your battery to stress in whatever way you see fit.  There's certainly a chance it will be tolerant of what you hope for.  But, when you mix and match parts and technology, you become the test engineer and take the risks.
When I did that for a living, my employer covered financial losses for any mistakes and misunderstandings.  Maybe yours will, too?

Good luck!