Author Topic: Something in the tank (Read 3014 times)

BrickWoll · « **on:** August 02, 2020, 12:38:08 PM »

Hello all,

I'm midway between tank cleaning and sealing and something has come loose inside. The original cleaning was vinegar + some small bolt agitators. That seemed to be fine and all hardware was accounted for. A few rinses and then an air hose drying.

Whatever is loose doesn't seem to be completely free, but rather semi-attached. Is there anything around the petcock outlet hole that could come loose on the inside?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

(Stock tank from '77 Honda CB550K)

Darren Jakal · « **Reply #1 on:** August 02, 2020, 02:10:07 PM »

Could be the fuel filter. It goes up into the tank. When I took my petcock off it stayed stuck to the hole opening and stayed inside. I was able to get under an edge and pull it out (pull it out of the petcock hole).

Hope this helps, dj

BrickWoll · « **Reply #2 on:** August 02, 2020, 02:29:49 PM »

Appreciate the help Darren. Sounds like this is the issue. Can you describe a bit what the internal filter looks like? I can't imagine fishing anything back through the petcock hole because of the size. Also, does this filter come down through the petcock - almost like an internal lining? Asking because it appears there is some sort of plastic lining within the hole.

Thanks again for any additional info.

Alan F. · « **Reply #3 on:** August 02, 2020, 03:05:44 PM »

It looks like this:

Its upside down in the picture, notice the flange at one end, is that what you see at the outer edge of the petcock hole on your tank?

Darren Jakal · « **Reply #4 on:** August 02, 2020, 03:43:02 PM »

Alan has it. I was able to get under the lip where it was pressed up against the petcock hole and pull/ pry it out.
dj

Alan F. · « **Reply #5 on:** August 02, 2020, 04:37:10 PM »

Quote from: Darren Jakal on August 02, 2020, 03:43:02 PM

Alan has it. I was able to get under the lip where it was pressed up against the petcock hole and pull/ pry it out.
dj

Edit: YOU WIN!

ekpent · « **Reply #6 on:** August 02, 2020, 04:42:44 PM »

Chicken Dinner for Alan - Ding ding ding !!

BrickWoll · « **Reply #7 on:** August 02, 2020, 08:53:42 PM »

Thanks guys. Appreciate the pic Alan. I've included a pic of what the petcock hole looks like. I don't see a lip that I could pry under (broken?),but I can probably pry it out by putting pressure on the inside and dragging it down with a screw driver. Regardless, the top half of the filter is now either free floating, or partly attached and flopping around inside. The plan is to try and break it loose from the piece that comes down through the hole and see if it will come out the cap opening.

Alan F. · « **Reply #8 on:** August 03, 2020, 06:59:02 AM »

I'd use a big wood screw or lag bolt, but if the plastic is too old and hard and the filter is trash anyway I'd probably try a thread cutting tap. The point is that if you can get a grip on the filter you should be able to pull it out.

BenelliSEI · « **Reply #9 on:** August 03, 2020, 05:23:50 PM »

Gently screw in a tap that just twists into the plastic. Grab the end of the tap with vice grips and pull it out........

BrickWoll · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2020, 08:08:40 AM »

Update: tapped and pulled the fuel filter, but the mystery continues. Now that I see the filter (tiny and light), whatever is in the tank is much larger. It actually "bangs" like it has some weight. It is not floating, but rather it seems to be attached to the rear of the tank. For example if I hold the tank with the rear pointing to the sky, I can swing it and it bangs like a bell.

From what I can tell with a flashlight, there is a ton of the previous sealer still flaking in the tank, even after bolt agitators and two vinegar rinses. I'm thinking that the PO may have let a bunch of the sealer pool into a mass at the back of the tank and it's now partially dislodged.

Just to confirm: there are no internal structural pieces within these tanks that could come loose, right?

Stev-o · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2020, 08:16:11 AM »

Quote from: BrickWoll on August 05, 2020, 08:08:40 AM

Just to confirm: there are no internal structural pieces within these tanks that could come loose, right?

Correct. It is most likely the old lining that the PO did. You need to get it all out and will need something stronger than vinegar. MEK works...

Alan F. · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2020, 09:21:28 AM »

If you can find MEK, use a good respirator.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2020, 11:00:50 AM »

Could be remnants of an old non stock fuel gauge style cap? Try using a coat hanger with a hook on one end to probe.

BrickWoll · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2020, 07:27:46 AM »

Finally got a good look at the source of the banging. There is a large "flap" peeled off the side of the tank. So... either that is a large chunk of the previous sealant or, if these tanks are double-walled, could it be an inner layer of the tank itself?! Can anyone confirm whether these tanks have two layers of steel or one?

DaveBarbier · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2020, 07:48:22 AM »

One layer.

Itineo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2020, 08:09:30 AM »

I've had this not once but twice on my bike. It was tank sealer that had come loose - A substantial lump of material in both cases that had to be broken up before it would fit through the filler opening.

BrickWoll · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2020, 08:40:00 AM »

Quote from: Itineo on August 07, 2020, 08:09:30 AM

I've had this not once but twice on my bike. It was tank sealer that had come loose - A substantial lump of material in both cases that had to be broken up before it would fit through the filler opening.

Quote from: DaveBarbier on August 07, 2020, 07:48:22 AM

One layer.

Thanks for this. Great news. Just a matter of garbage removal then.

Alan F. · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2020, 09:42:56 AM »

Last time I broke up a liner, I think it was a Caswell that was flaking up all over the place. I took a spool of thick cotton string and looped it through about 200 #10 kepnuts, and tied the ends together, the loop was about 5 feet long. I fed this down into the tank and sloshed it around for about 15 minutes. Then I fished it out and stuck the vacuum cleaner hose in and shook the tank until I couldn't hear any more chips of liner rattling around, I did this 3 or 4 times until the chips stopped flaking off. There were a few areas inside where I could still see bits of liner stuck on, but it was probably 95% bare steel in the areas I could see, good enough for an in-tank filter/strainer to deal with.

BrickWoll · « **Reply #19 on:** August 15, 2020, 05:09:34 PM »

Update: I was not having any success contorting the tank to try and get a hold of this chunk of liner and break it up. It was too big to even get near the cap opening to get a good look at it. Out of frustration, I decided to just leave it and fill the tank with vinegar anyway to deal with the rust. Just as I topped it off, this lunar-looking chunk floated right up to the opening. Now that I can assess its size, it's at least 1.5 in at its thickest point and its shape will not allow it come out in one piece. It feels as hard as a rock, so I'm thinking about using a drill to break it up. Have a look:

Alan F. · « **Reply #20 on:** August 15, 2020, 05:27:01 PM »

Holy crap, wth is that doing in there?

BrickWoll · « **Reply #21 on:** August 16, 2020, 11:28:35 AM »

I've asked myself the same question. Clearly, a PO sealed the tank and neglected to pour the excess out. Inattention to detail like this doesn't inspire confidence that the bike was treated with care overall. I've replaced all the critical components (brakes, lines, battery, controls, fluids, plugs), but the engine condition is still a mystery. As soon as I get this tank baby out, I'll be able to fire it up and see if any other issues present themselves.

ekpent · « **Reply #22 on:** August 16, 2020, 12:05:50 PM »

This is a good reason to have a cheap slave tank set-up. You can run and tune the engine for instances like now or when doing general maintenance like carb synch etc.. Mine is an old riding lawnmower tank with an on/off petcock hanging. Every shop needs one. Since that picture I switched from a bird cage to an old hospital IV holder to hold the tank

No tank-no problem

BrickWoll · « **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2020, 08:06:07 AM »

Quote from: ekpent on August 16, 2020, 12:05:50 PM

This is a good reason to have a cheap slave tank set-up. You can run and tune the engine for instances like now or when doing general maintenance like carb synch etc.. Mine is an old riding lawnmower tank with an on/off petcock hanging. Every shop needs one. Since that picture I switched from a bird cage to an old hospital IV holder to hold the tank No tank-no problem

Thanks, ekpent. This is a great idea. Space in my garage is at a premium, but the benefits of a mobile fuel source are obvious.

In other news... with a lot of contorting and Dremel cutting, it emerges:

ekpent · « **Reply #24 on:** August 17, 2020, 08:48:55 AM »

That is truly wild. First time I have seen something like that emerge from a tank. Hang it on the wall to reminisce about sometime when your all done and enjoying your ride.

Stev-o · « **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2020, 09:00:18 AM »

Quote from: ekpent on August 17, 2020, 08:48:55 AM

Hang it on the wall...

Art!

PeWe · « **Reply #26 on:** August 17, 2020, 09:29:32 AM »

It's the Blob! It might eat you!!
Edit: Can also be the brain from a Harley guy

Alan F. · « **Reply #27 on:** August 17, 2020, 11:22:03 AM »

Reminds me of the story of the yuppie moto newb who brought his 'American motorcycle' in for service because it had suddenly started to run poorly. After half an hour the mechanic came back with 4 words, "sh!t in the tank" handed him his keys and bill and started to walk away. The newb had to stop him and ask, "how often?"

dazemc · « **Reply #28 on:** August 17, 2020, 03:08:27 PM »

Quote from: BrickWoll on August 17, 2020, 08:06:07 AM

Space in my garage is at a premium, but the benefits of a mobile fuel source are obvious.

If space and/or money is an issue then this is my "solution".

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 17, 2020, 05:35:02 PM »

Good lord! Its alive!

Roby466 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 18, 2020, 02:32:23 AM »

Somebody tried to stop a leak with lead. I guess it didn’t stick...
Just noticed you said it floated... maybe not lead then

BrickWoll · « **Reply #31 on:** August 18, 2020, 08:44:05 AM »

Quote from: Roby466 on August 18, 2020, 02:32:23 AM

Somebody tried to stop a leak with lead. I guess it didn’t stick...
Just noticed you said it floated... maybe not lead then

Roby446 - Pretty clear now it's just a very thick buildup of sealer. As you can see, it had a strange pitted surface. After cutting through it, there were similar air pockets throughout the material. I'm guessing this is why, despite its thickness, it floated! Hoping this is where the weirdness ends with this rebuild! Makes for a good story at least.

ekpent · « **Reply #32 on:** August 18, 2020, 10:19:57 AM »

I found seeds in a 750 engine cylinder once when I tore it down for repair after it had sat out of the frame in a guys basement and then my shop for quite awhile

PeWe · « **Reply #33 on:** August 18, 2020, 11:47:01 AM »

You could have grown the seeds. Maybe small Hondas after a while!

News:

Author Topic: Something in the tank (Read 3014 times)