Topic: Question for those with Dyna S electronic ignition, do you get more adjustments?

[DesertKyorugi]

I am running out of timing adjustment slot on my K1 that has the wonky bolt instead of the usual nut on the advanced shaft. My timing is between the F mark and the T mark for both sides. I can get the 1-4 side to line up on F but that would throw the 2-3 out past the T mark. I am using static and then a strobe light for checking the timing.

If I go with the electronic ignition like Dyna S, will it have a wider range of adjustment?

Thanks

[scottly]

If you are out of the stock adjustment range with points, it's usually due to improper point gap. This will not be an issue with a Dyna, but the range of adjustment is the same.

[DesertKyorugi]

The points gap are at the maximum of 0.016" for it to get to the timing that I mentioned. Anything smaller is skewing it towards the T mark.

I am thinking the wonky bolt is not straight and wobbles too much for the timing to be set correctly.

Bike runs and idles fine with a very pronounced brap brap brap with the HM341.

[scottly]

Try setting the gap at .012-.014"

[DesertKyorugi]

Try setting the gap at .012-.014"

Tried it already. It puts it farther out past the T mark

[scottly]

If you go with a Dyna S, point gap will not be an issue. You mentioned a "wonky bolt" on the advancer shaft???

[DesertKyorugi]

If you go with a Dyna S, point gap will not be an issue. You mentioned a "wonky bolt" on the advancer shaft???

Yup, posted it long time ago when I first took a closer look at the motor. Let me find it

[DesertKyorugi]

I have a NOS Tec points/plate on the bike now but just can't get both banks to time correctly. I can get one side perfect, just not both.
So, for now I am setting it up down the middle where both banks are in the same position - between F and T mark. Same position on advance for both banks, to the right of the advance mark

[scottly]

Whoa, I don't know what is going on there!!?? The stock stud is 8mm on the end that threads into the crank, with an O-ring seal, and necks down to 6mm where it goes through the advancer. I don't think an 8mm bolt will fit through a 750 advancer?? The 650 used an 8mm stud, with a corresponding 8mm hole through the advancer, but those had electronic ignition.

[DesertKyorugi]

Whoa, I don't know what is going on there!!?? The stock stud is 8mm on the end that threads into the crank, with an O-ring seal, and necks down to 6mm where it goes through the advancer. I don't think an 8mm bolt will fit through a 750 advancer?? The 650 used an 8mm stud, with a corresponding 8mm hole through the advancer, but those had electronic ignition.

Yup, been through all that last time I posted it. Decided to leave it alone because the bike runs and not leaking oil.

I thought about putting the old knackered points plate back on and see how it the timing is but at this point I am thinking I may be better off going to Dyna.

Another option(?) Is I have Hondaman's ignition. Question is will the point's gap matter with his ignition? I think if I go bigger than 0.016" I can get it much closer to the F mark

[scottly]

The Dyna uses the stock advancer base and stud, so who knows if it will work with whatever is lurking under that bolt?? Hondaman's ignition is timed off the stock points, so if you can't get it right now, it won't help.

[DesertKyorugi]

The Dyna uses the stock advancer base and stud, so who knows if it will work with whatever is lurking under that bolt?? Hondaman's ignition is timed off the stock points, so if you can't get it right now, it won't help.

Aaaaarrrghh! I don't really want to open it up to see what's going on with that bolt and how it is working without leaking.....😫

So, the stupid question is what is the harm of going bigger than 0.016" if it will bring the timing on correctly?¹

[scottly]

Larger gap means less "dwell", the time the points are closed, when the coil is charged before the next spark. A lower dwell can cause a weaker spark at higher RPMs, but won't harm anything in normal use.

[DesertKyorugi]

Larger gap means less "dwell", the time the points are closed, when the coil is charged before the next spark. A lower dwell can cause a weaker spark at higher RPMs, but won't harm anything in normal use.

I don't have a dwell meter so I guess what I don't know won't harm me 🤔
I guess I will try going bigger gap and see where that is taking me

[scottly]

For what it's worth, I haven't used a dwell meter since high school auto shop. Your bike won't burst into a ball of flames if the timing is a little off...

[DesertKyorugi]

For what it's worth, I haven't used a dwell meter since high school auto shop. Your bike won't burst into a ball of flames if the timing is a little off...

Very true except now I know what spot-on timing can do with my Valley Green K1....ignorance is bliss 😅

[bryanj]

Before you do anything with points plate or electronic you need to put the advancer and stud right or you will never get it correct

[DesertKyorugi]

Before you do anything with points plate or electronic you need to put the advancer and stud right or you will never get it correct

The trouble is nothing good can come out of taking that bolt off. We all know only the advancer stud that goes from M6 to M8 is supposed to go in there. That and the seal/washer that's on the 6/8mm transition.

From all my Google searches, I can only surmise that the factory stud was probably damaged and the M8 stud was used. It also somehow managed to seal against oil leaks. The bike ran 6 months ago with the old points plate in the picture and it runs with the new points plate now. My feeling is just to ride it and enjoy it. The timing is a little off but if I can make it a little better, I would definitely try it. Anything short of opening it up and possibly jinxing the magical oil seal that is.

[bryanj]

So you have to get new stud with O ring, complete new advancer with big nut and small nut then its all back to standard

[Old Moe Toe]

I am not going to argue with Bryan,
However if you want more adjustment you can take off the base plate and then with a small round file elongate the curved holes in it so you can rotate the plate further. I did this with the "Diacchi horridus" points that used to be on my bike to get it timed right. A bit of an agricultural fix but it worked at the time.

[DaveBarbier]

I don’t get it, what is holding the cam in place now that the big nut is gone?

If the goal is to just get the timing right then why spend the money on a Dyna when you could just get a new advancer shaft? Are you secretly fed up with points and just want a new electronic ignition? If you think the advancer shaft is bent then the Dyna won’t work either because it uses the same parts you have. So if you get a Dyna you’re probably going to have to disassemble that whole thing anyway.

I say, either just forget about it if it runs ok OR fix it right with the right OEM parts. I prefer the second option because what you have there is terrible.


On a side note, and just because I’m curious, do you want to take a video of it running with the points cover off so we can see how it’s acting? If you have an iPhone with slow motion video capability I’d be interested to see that too. Like a video half regular speed half slow.

[BenelliSEI]

Dave makes a great point. The part that located the Cam (and therefore your basic timing settings) is missing. The points Cam is probably not in the right place. Worse, probably not centred on the shaft. +1 to “fix it”.

[seanbarney41]

Seems quite possible the entire advancer is not even correct...could have one from a 550 or even a kawasaki or something so your timing marks are not right anyway.

But, i hear you on being reluctant to take it apart .

[seanbarney41]

My guess is that you will find that the crank snout was damaged, requiring whatever retrofit is on there now.

[DesertKyorugi]

First of all, Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!! I am thankful for having all of you on this forum for the sanctity of my CB addiction 

So you have to get new stud with O ring, complete new advancer with big nut and small nut then its all back to standard

So, for the sake of getting everybody on the same page, I will re-tell the whole story so bear with me it is a long story. Back when I first posted the picture of my points plate probably 8 months ago, I was doing a quick evaluation on the bike to decide what we are going to do with it. The first thing was to check out the motor to see if it will run. After all the necessary prep, we started it to see if it will run and it did run. Since then, I have purchased all the parts(#300 advanced, shaft/stud, seals, big nut, small nut, and washer) from Yamiya and DSS with the intention of fixing it IF I need to take it all apart. Knowing that the worst-case scenario is cracking the case open for a full-on rebuild. The conclusion back then is, leave it alone if the bike runs and not leaking oil.

Fast forward to now, I have since discovered that one of the points plate holders/anchors was repaired with JB Weld before when I removed the points plate to replace it with a new one because someone pointed out the dented condenser from the post. With the plate off, I can see the advancer is sitting flush and I hand rotated it with the kickstarter to check that all gaps are even to the crankcase molding. I was tempted to remove it to check but we are very close to finishing the resto and the bike seems to run fine with the old points plate. It is prime riding season now where I am in the Californian desert and I don't really want to ride my Kawi on our rides(My son won't ride any of my sports bikes). We slapped the new plate on and got everything adjusted statically. The bike runs and we went riding.

About a month ago, I broke down and bought a strobe/timing light. Checked the Valley Green K1 and it is spot-on except it was advancing too early. Checked the Ruby Red K1 and realized the timing is off. So off and on, we have been trying different gaps and timing positions since. Putting it back to where it was when we are going on our rides. We will probably take it apart next summer and see what's going on but right now we are just riding it.

Are you secretly fed up with points and just want a new electronic ignition?

The funny part about this is, I only got into CB750s because I was secretly wanting a doomsday EMP/Solar flare proof bike 

I am not going to argue with Bryan,
However if you want more adjustment you can take off the base plate and then with a small round file elongate the curved holes in it so you can rotate the plate further. I did this with the "Diacchi horridus" points that used to be on my bike to get it timed right. A bit of an agricultural fix but it worked at the time.

I will probably try this with the old points plate.

Just so your guys are clear, I am a cheap old school sob. I wouldn't spend the $140+ on the Dyna unless I know for sure it will fix the problem. And that is only IF the bike stops running and it is still prime riding season.

Anyway, just want you guys to know I appreciate all the advice and will definitely let you guys know the bad news if and when I open it up  For now, if I can fix it with some mods, that is what we will do. So, please keep all the agricultural and other fixes coming for me to try.

Here's a pic of the two old ladies

[DesertKyorugi]

Seems quite possible the entire advancer is not even correct...could have one from a 550 or even a kawasaki or something so your timing marks are not right anyway.

But, i hear you on being reluctant to take it apart .

It is the correct one. It is the AD-125-01 advancer. I also purchased a good used one to have extra.

[bryanj]

 Dyna WILL NOT fix the mechanical problem caused by having bad mechanical parts, fix the problem NOT the symptom