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Offline 69cb750

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World economics & value of money
« on: October 27, 2022, 06:07:31 AM »
The value of the USA dollar is rising while the value of UK pound, Japan yen, Madagascar ariary is falling.
If you want to buy a CB750 from Japan or Vincent from UK  prices are falling making them more affordable.
Don't make any plans to sell  CB750's to Japan or UK in 2023, they cannot afford them.
World chaos, what the future will be like is unknown.

https://fortune.com/2022/10/18/surging-us-dollar-almost-impossible-afford-anything-countries-around-world-inflation/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Offline Scott S

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2022, 07:05:02 AM »
  I can see how this can easily turn into a thread that violates the NO POLITICS rule.

 If we can discuss buying and selling bikes and parts, that's great. Let's not get off topic, please.
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Online newday777

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2022, 08:00:59 AM »
The cost of living has risen sharply in the past 2 years because of the fallout of shutdowns around the world and prices have risen trying to recover from the world string pullers attempt to take control of markets and countries.
Yes we could be in for unprecedented times shortly......
Stu
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My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
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1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
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New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
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Offline Don R

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2022, 04:32:50 PM »
  I agree with all the above statements.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2022, 05:48:12 PM »
This situation could also bode well for less-expensive parts! :)

I'm doing my best to help Japan out at the moment. Thailand, too.
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Online BomberMann650

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2022, 07:15:57 PM »
Anyone else notice the u.s. media has forgotten the actual meaning of the term "inflation"?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 07:30:32 PM by BomberMann650 »

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2022, 09:45:42 PM »
Lots of people reevaluate their need to work after the pandemic and they looked at their savings and decided to retire early, so that knowledge base was drained and many companies also went under. So, the logistics people who knew how things ran and had relationships with others are no longer in their positions and that broke a lot of the supply chain. Plus lots of older engineering types decided the little bit they would add to their portfolio in a couple years wasn't worth it if some virus or other things was gonna kill you. So several articles I have read and several people I know decided they had enough and are enjoying retired life now. Plus lots of older workers died in the pandemic if they were 65 or older and still working... Over 65 folks were very hard hit by the pandemic...
So, factor that into what we are seeing and the long term lag or recovery... So, I think things won't rebuild and recover for close to 10 years if something that doesn't send things into a significant spiral in the next year. Yeah we will have a recession and inflation will be present in many areas.
So, MC prices will be high for those exceptional examples but as a recession takes hold, then prices will depress overall as budgets tighten and discretion spending gets ratcheted down even more.

That's my take on it.

At least shipping container prices have fallen in recent months and aren't likely to soar again for a while.
So, that releases some funds that would have constrained overseas sales, or has been...in addition to the buying power reductions...
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Offline Scott S

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2022, 03:45:31 AM »
 I'm one of those people. I retired from a well paying but brutal job after 31 years (just before the pandemic hit). Started a second career and, about a year and a half ago, went part time. Best thing I ever did.

 Speaking of shipping containers, is the supply chain backlog easing up? I watched a news story a few months ago about all the ships queued up to get off loaded. It blew my mind that these shipping ports didn't run 24/7! The job I retired from ran all day, EVERY day.... 24/7/365.
 But, of course, once the containers were unloaded, there was (is?) a shortage of truck drivers.
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Offline dave500

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2022, 04:02:55 AM »
im in the garbage industry and its 24/7/365,im on normal hours though, we cant get drivers,all over in this field no decent employer can get drivers who stay,ive been in the same job for 20 years and in my mid 60s am about #$%*ed off with it,but i soldier on as its a pretty good earn when you think of it?the truck does all the work,i get a good scavenge if i want,i can slack off or hustle my day along and these days its all nice trucks compared to the old days?i cant speak for shipping container drivers who may be owner drivers or hired?some get per run pay etc,and if waiting for eons for a load it works out crap hourly hire?even with covid we were exempt from restrictions as trash is important!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2022, 04:05:59 AM by dave500 »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2022, 06:05:03 PM »
The recent massive (political) change in China might forestall the Dollar's value drop (caused by Congressional overspending): just between the time I ordered and paid for some parts from Japan and the time they shipped them (2 days), the Dollar increased in value so much that I received a 4% credit back to my account! The more China messes up (like they are now doing), the easier it will be for the US and UK to ride this thing out. Japan is affected similarly because they are so tied into Western markets.

I'm thinkin'...it might not be as bad as it has sounded for the last 3 months?  :-\
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Online BomberMann650

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2022, 09:29:08 PM »
Speaking of Japan

It's kinda crazy how the yen based economy prices look to this westerner.
Like ¥1200 for some food.  But in USD there would be a decimal between the two and the first zero.  (Approximately)

So everything sounds absurdly expensive in yen, but thats just how they roll.
¥40,000 on rent - thats cheap
¥250,000 on a bike - totally fair
And they are a developed world leading nation (in some tech markets)

It would take a lot of perception shifting for an American to live with those prices.  It would take even more for wages to match pace.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2022, 09:39:28 PM »
Speaking of Japan

It's kinda crazy how the yen based economy prices look to this westerner.
Like ¥1200 for some food.  But in USD there would be a decimal between the two and the first zero.  (Approximately)

So everything sounds absurdly expensive in yen, but thats just how they roll.
¥40,000 on rent - thats cheap
¥250,000 on a bike - totally fair
And they are a developed world leading nation (in some tech markets)

It would take a lot of perception shifting for an American to live with those prices.  It would take even more for wages to match pace.


Yeah, it seems like they price everything like we might do it in 'cents'!
Wasn't it in the 1990s when they decided to keep it this way, when they had a big meeting with their bankers about 'revaluing' the Yen to be larger (IIRC, it was to be a 10x or 30x change, or something)? It got voted down, and I never understood their reasons for that.

They are certainly a courageous lot, IMHO.
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Offline dave500

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2022, 12:47:10 AM »
Australia is the place to be everyone!if your gonna be poor be poor in Australia full stop.

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2022, 01:39:32 AM »
Australia is the place to be everyone!if your gonna be poor be poor in Australia full stop.

Actually thought about it and looked at the cost of doing it and I didn’t have the money that Australia would want me to have to become a resident… not to mention unless you are employed in an field they want they aren’t as keen on your being there…
At least that was what the research I did was showing.
Some countries will give you a visa to live there for a while and then you can’t be in country for 3-6 months before they approve the next VISA. It is an odd situation.
Some countries are a problem to live in because of kidnapping and ransom issues.

Australia would be a great place to live, as would New Zealand.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline dave500

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2022, 02:49:53 AM »
wow,ive never looked into it of course,im a citizen but born in England the mother country?we came to Australia in 1965 ten pound poms,at school as a kid we had Italians,chezchs etc,we all got on fine.

Offline 69cb750

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2022, 06:26:42 AM »
Quote
Anyone else notice the u.s. media has forgotten the actual meaning of the term "inflation"?
#3 Increase of the currency of a country by issuing much paper money.
#4 A sharp and sudden rises of prices resulting from the great expansion of the paper money supply or bank credit.
#3 causes #4
The federal reserve expanded the money supply in 2008 during the economic crash and again in 2020 because of the virus.
In August 2021 Jerome Powell says high inflation is temporary.
They should have starting increasing the interest rate in August 2021, they were slow to act, I should be running the federal reserve.  These guys are insulated from economic reality.


Quote
So everything sounds absurdly expensive in yen, but that iss just how they roll.
¥40,000 on rent - that is cheap
¥250,000 on a bike - totally fair
And they are a developed world leading nation (in some tech markets)
It would take a lot of perception shifting for an American to live with those prices.  It would take even more for wages to match pace.
It depends on how much money you have and make.
If you like your job, have a nice house, have a nice car, have a fleet of CB750's you are more likely to be happy.
If most of your money goes for food, cannot afford any house, can only afford junk cars, cannot afford a CB750 then life is hard and less happy.


Quote
Australia is the place to be everyone!if your gonna be poor be poor in Australia full stop.
Home come ?  Please explain.

Online BomberMann650

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2022, 01:26:57 PM »
I don't fully understand how more money in circulation harms the value of that currency.

With the digitization of financial exchange - money itself is not a rare item. 
If a large supply of money was somehow worth less than a small volume.  why would corporate holding firms want a horde of the stuff?  Especially those that have admitted no aspiration to reinvest for expanding their enterprises.

I know there are a large group of people who will religiously deny the concept of a universal digital currency system.  Like the Sci-fi economic "credit" or "units" thing.  Seems like having a uniformly valued token for financial bartering would resolve some of the issues with international commodity exchange and labor valuations.
A fixed index mark that can't be leveraged to exploit entire nations.

I digress.  Youthful idealism.  As long as a pints a pound the world around it can't be all that bad.

Offline calj737

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2022, 03:26:19 PM »
I don't fully understand how more money in circulation harms the value of that currency.
Really? Do you think that printed paper is just that, paper? It’s monetary value must be underpinned by a hard asset. In the psat, it was gold (ever heard of Fort Knox?). More paper dilutes the ratio of dollar to gold (assuming there’s actually gold still physically available). The US has been borrowing money with debt from other countries because they have printed beyond their ratio of holding. Digital currency is still dependent upon financial holdings still represented by hard currency.

Inflation is cause by many things, but the more paper you print, the lower the leverage of the currency, the higher the prices go. Brazil experienced wild inflation in the early ‘90s, like 35% per month. They used to reprint their currency every several months, adding more zeros to dilute the value of the paper to correspond to surging prices. All a shell game…
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Offline ofreen

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2022, 03:40:26 PM »
I don't fully understand how more money in circulation harms the value of that currency.

You are evidently not alone.  Why should any of us have to work then?  Why should we have to pay taxes?  Why not just print more money to pay for everything?  It shouldn't take too much thought to figure out why that doesn't work.  Unless of course, you believe in perpetual motion and that the laws of thermodynamics are all a bunch of hooey.  You can't make something out of nothing, and yet that is what they have been trying to fool people into thinking is possible.
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2022, 06:42:27 PM »
I don't fully understand how more money in circulation harms the value of that currency.

You are evidently not alone.  Why should any of us have to work then?  Why should we have to pay taxes?  Why not just print more money to pay for everything?  It shouldn't take too much thought to figure out why that doesn't work.  Unless of course, you believe in perpetual motion and that the laws of thermodynamics are all a bunch of hooey.  You can't make something out of nothing, and yet that is what they have been trying to fool people into thinking is possible.

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Offline Scott S

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2022, 06:58:57 PM »
 Thank you all for keeping this civil and non political so far.
 Continue....discuss amongst yourselves!
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Online BomberMann650

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2022, 07:30:29 PM »
Really? Do you think that printed paper is just that, paper?

These days, thats basically what it is.  Fancy paper that works as a means of economic exchange.  With an agreed upon value between parties.
Which does not preclude the unsavory practice of "price-gouging" or "price-fixing".

Quote
It’s monetary value must be underpinned by a hard asset.

Not necessarily - U.S history itself has many examples of company scrip.  Which had an agreed upon value among the towns people and local merchants.  Often a raw deal for the laborer - but nonetheless, a currency with little to no official securities backing it.
Ostensibly propped up by the productivity of the laborers themselves.

Quote
In the past, it was gold (ever heard of Fort Knox?). More paper dilutes the ratio of dollar to gold (assuming there’s actually gold still physically available).

Yes, i remember the days when i was told u.s. currency was backed by the u.s. treasury.  But since that method of national securities backing has given way during digitization of banks.  The economic welfare of our country seems to lean more on its GDP. 
That is to say, how much are other countries willing to pay for what we are selling.  Or how much another country is willing to sell us within a given budget.
But I could be wrong so sprinkle salt on that one.

Either way, some issues could be smoothed out by the perceivable benefits of a uniformly valued exchange token/unit/thing. 
In a hypothetical post-societal scenario where digitization fails, the value of gold could also fall below that of booze and bullets.  Since economics would revert to that whole "agreed upon value" thing.

I also recall a joke about diamonds and gem stones only being expense because De Beers said so.

Quote
The US has been borrowing money with debt from other countries because they have printed beyond their ratio of holding. Digital currency is still dependent upon financial holdings still represented by hard currency.

The u.s. has been in debt since the whisky rebellion.
I'm not sure exactly what loans you're referring to these days.  But i feel my remarks on national GDP are relevant here.  As it seems the u.s. may not be producing enough to make ends meet without some outside help.  Which is more of a remark on the nations industriousness than the value of its dollar bill.  Or mismanagement thereof.

The digital to physical exhange of currency is its own can of worms.  Obviously, the u.s. SEC stepped in during the boom a few years ago.  Put in their own risk-management and fraud prevention efforts so that parties who would agree to enable such transactions were competent and financially qualified to do so.  Even though the digital currency being exchanged had no physical resource backing it, it held some market demand.  So at a wildly flucuating, yet still agreed upon value, people could turn their bits into cash.
Bits, which were initially acquired through the production efforts of laborers.  Specifically, computer programming.  Developed as a means of exchange between parties. 
Currency released into the system increases as the computer programmers labor.  Its value remains as "whatever the people say it is."
Unfortunately, people are also fickle.  So it has its flaws.  But its a free-market, not influenced much by ruling politics.

Quote
All a shell game…

That we can both agree on.

Offline calj737

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2022, 08:54:10 PM »
Really? Do you think that printed paper is just that, paper?

These days, thats basically what it is.  Fancy paper that works as a means of economic exchange.  With an agreed upon value between parties.
Which does not preclude the unsavory practice of "price-gouging" or "price-fixing".

Quote
It’s monetary value must be underpinned by a hard asset.

Not necessarily - U.S history itself has many examples of company scrip.  Which had an agreed upon value among the towns people and local merchants.  Often a raw deal for the laborer - but nonetheless, a currency with little to no official securities backing it.
Ostensibly propped up by the productivity of the laborers themselves.

Quote
In the past, it was gold (ever heard of Fort Knox?). More paper dilutes the ratio of dollar to gold (assuming there’s actually gold still physically available).

Yes, i remember the days when i was told u.s. currency was backed by the u.s. treasury.  But since that method of national securities backing has given way during digitization of banks.  The economic welfare of our country seems to lean more on its GDP. 
That is to say, how much are other countries willing to pay for what we are selling.  Or how much another country is willing to sell us within a given budget.
But I could be wrong so sprinkle salt on that one.

Either way, some issues could be smoothed out by the perceivable benefits of a uniformly valued exchange token/unit/thing. 
In a hypothetical post-societal scenario where digitization fails, the value of gold could also fall below that of booze and bullets.  Since economics would revert to that whole "agreed upon value" thing.

I also recall a joke about diamonds and gem stones only being expense because De Beers said so.

Quote
The US has been borrowing money with debt from other countries because they have printed beyond their ratio of holding. Digital currency is still dependent upon financial holdings still represented by hard currency.

The u.s. has been in debt since the whisky rebellion.
I'm not sure exactly what loans you're referring to these days.  But i feel my remarks on national GDP are relevant here.  As it seems the u.s. may not be producing enough to make ends meet without some outside help.  Which is more of a remark on the nations industriousness than the value of its dollar bill.  Or mismanagement thereof.

The digital to physical exhange of currency is its own can of worms.  Obviously, the u.s. SEC stepped in during the boom a few years ago.  Put in their own risk-management and fraud prevention efforts so that parties who would agree to enable such transactions were competent and financially qualified to do so.  Even though the digital currency being exchanged had no physical resource backing it, it held some market demand.  So at a wildly flucuating, yet still agreed upon value, people could turn their bits into cash.
Bits, which were initially acquired through the production efforts of laborers.  Specifically, computer programming.  Developed as a means of exchange between parties. 
Currency released into the system increases as the computer programmers labor.  Its value remains as "whatever the people say it is."
Unfortunately, people are also fickle.  So it has its flaws.  But its a free-market, not influenced much by ruling politics.

Quote
All a shell game…

That we can both agree on.
You’re right, you’re naive and idealistic. You obviously don’t understand that the “paper notes” are legal tender and the “agreed upon value” is their worth as set by the Treasury Department that prints them.

As for digital assets not being underpinned by hard assets, you’re wrong again. They are nothing more than markers (or debt/liability of the issuer to the recipient). Why else do you think governments got involved in these markets? To provide oversight and to prevent massive fraud and currency destabilization.

If they weren’t backed by real assets what would prevent anyone from issuing an untold amount and claiming to own billions of dollars worth of crypto currencies?

Citing centuries old means of trade exchange is obtuse. Focus on the regulated, governed and contemporary economics. As for the GDP being the financial bellwether of a nation’s currency value, you’re mistaken again. The GDP (and ours has been in decline for decades to globalism and tax rates and other such regulatory incentives) measures export value against market demand. Borrowing money from other countries is due to our fiscal policies being so out of whack that our currency is worth less than the face value. That is inflation hard at work.
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Online BomberMann650

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2022, 09:52:00 PM »
My personal utopian future may be optimistic Cal.
Though it sure beats thinkin about what hell we're livin through.

Dunno how you can harp on about the devaluation of the USD when the start of this thread highlighted its strength vs the euro.

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one & one & one is three

Offline calj737

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Re: World economics & value of money
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2022, 06:01:53 AM »
My personal utopian future may be optimistic Cal.
Though it sure beats thinkin about what hell we're livin through.

Dunno how you can harp on about the devaluation of the USD when the start of this thread highlighted its strength vs the euro.

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one & one & one is three
The reason is the Euro is plummeting due to inflation and economic catastrophe and their silly policies. The US economy will follow shortly thereafter. When the US economy gets a cough, the world gets a cold. That is partly due to the fact that Oil in global market trading is based on the USD. Should that ever change (and there’s a massive effort underway by China to persuade OPEC to move to the Yen) you will see a nearly unrecoverable depression here and in Europe.

Utopia is that way >>>> Don’t get lost on your journey…
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis