Topic: Terry's "Old Blue, the Flipping F2" restification thread.

[MauiK3]

great progress, it's always a surprise to see what simple neglect can do to these things.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Steve. Yesterday I noticed that the rear caliper was still dragging so I removed it and pumped the piston out. The bore was good, the piston was ok because the bellows style dust seal was still good, so I cleaned out 45 years worth of mud, polished the piston and washed the pads in acetone and scrubbed both sides of the disc and reassembled it, bled the air out, and it’s perfect now.

Tonight I’m going to attack the front brakes and do the same, then it’s “Test ride” time, woohoo!

[MauiK3]

There is a rule of thumb in the facility management world that says 75% of the cost of ownership of a building is in the upkeep and use. The construction is the rest. The more you delay maintenance the more it costs. The better you build the cheaper to own. The simple and effective stuff you are doing will render an essentially useless assembly of parts back into a useful form, something that would be avoided by simple day to day care. We’re just the folks that regard this task as worthwhile. I get a thrill out of bringing something back from the brink.
My wife always teases me that there isn’t anything in the world that I don’t think needs some  lubing!
Anyway, end of my philosophy rant, very nice bike project.

[grcamna2]

There is a rule of thumb in the facility management world that says 75% of the cost of ownership of a building is in the upkeep and use. The construction is the rest. The more you delay maintenance the more it costs. The better you build the cheaper to own. The simple and effective stuff you are doing will render an essentially useless assembly of parts back into a useful form, something that would be avoided by simple day to day care. We’re just the folks that regard this task as worthwhile. I get a thrill out of bringing something back from the brink.
My wife always teases me that there isn’t anything in the world that I don’t think needs some  lubing!
Anyway, end of my philosophy rant, very nice bike project.

Steve,I enjoy how you've explained this.
I would like to have had it written down when I had my motorcycle repair service back in the 90's;post it on a large sign.
The percentage of owners who put their bikes away 'wet' with the battery installed is astounding !

"The simple and effective stuff you're doing will render an essentially useless assembly of parts back into a useful form;something that would be avoided by simple day to day care".

Yeah Man !   There's a lot of wisdom in that statement,thanks.

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks Steve, I’m purposely re-purposing as much of the original bits as I can, to keep costs to a minimum. So far I’ve only used new oil and a filter, and some brake fluid and shop towel. I haven’t pulled a spark plug or even cleaned the points, so if I can get away with doing the front brakes tonight without having to reach into my parts tubs for new brake lines or pads (particularly as I prefer pads from back then, than the crappy non-asbestos pads we have to buy nowadays) I’ll be very happy.

In defence of Peter, the PO, he’d never really intended to keep it off the road, he just never got back to riding it. I’m very grateful to him for shelling out the money for a really nice seat, new OEM tail light and speedo, new tank stripe decals and all the other little bits he collected for it, and the fact that he’d carefully put everything away, so far I haven’t even had to provide any replacement screws or other hardware.

I will need to hunt around for the rear blinker mounting rubbers as the originals have perished causing the blinkers to droop, but I think I have some, somewhere. I really am looking forward to going for a ride.

[BenelliSEI]

Terry..... your comments on “new brake pads” make me laugh. The last two bikes I sold had new pads in the front. I carefully squared off and cleaned up the “old” ones and put them in my spares!

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks John, the rear pads had lots of meat on them so after a clean In acetone they went back in, as the old asbestos pads are way better than the “green” pads you can only buy nowadays, it was like finding a tank full of fresh “Leaded” gasoline.

When I was restoring the T500 I had two front brake plates to choose from, one with new shoes and one with 1974 shoes, and I couldn’t believe how much more aggressive the old ones were. From then on, if I can re-use the original pads I will, because they’re just superior to new ones.

[MauiK3]

The glue they use on the pads to attach them must be some pretty good stuff to withstand cleaning in acetone.

[Terry in Australia]

The glue they use on the pads to attach them must be some pretty good stuff to withstand cleaning in acetone.

They're bonded to the backing plates to withstand the heat from thousands of stops, so a quick wash in acetone isn't going to upset anything Steve. Having said that, I certainly wouldn't soak them in it overnight.

[seanbarney41]

The glue they use on the pads to attach them must be some pretty good stuff to withstand cleaning in acetone.

They're bonded to the backing plates to withstand the heat from thousands of stops, so a quick wash in acetone isn't going to upset anything Steve. Having said that, I certainly wouldn't soak them in it overnight.

well, I am thinking common everyday spray can brake cleaner is a lot stronger than acetone.  Its all designed to evaporate before it can harm anything anyway.

[Terry in Australia]

Speaking of brakes, yesterday I got stuck into the front brakes. I'd tried to bleed them on the weekend and got a rock hard lever (and everyone loves a hard lever...) but it made no difference to the actual lack of braking, regardless of how hard I pulled my lever (chuckle) the front wheel rolled, completely unhindered. First job then, was to remove the brake hoses and confirm that they were plugged. I was talking previously about my  soon to be patented "Blowhard" (no, not me....) brake hose de-crapping device.

F2 Wednesday 1 February 2023 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

It worked really well on the rear hose, but the fronts were jammed hard, so I ended up carefully poking a piece of MIG wire up each hose to push out the rusty mud, then used the "Blowhard" to blow out the residue. I reattached the now free hoses, filled the MC and pumped fresh brake fluid, then removed each caliper one at a time and pumped the pistons out.

F2 Wednesday 1 February 2023 2 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The bores and pistons were OK, once again the bellows style dust seals were still in place so there wasn't much corrosion, just mud. I used a soft copper wire brush to clean the bores, a nylon 3M pad to polish the pistons, some spray on degreaser to wash the calipers out, wiped them dry with scottowel then lubed the pistons with fresh brake fluid and used a G clamp to push them back into their bores.

F2 Wednesday 1 February 2023 3 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

The pads were covered in greasy goop, as Peter had liberally sprayed WD40 all over them to move the bike out of his garage before I got over there. It wasn't just WD40 though, it was 45 year old greasy mud, so I gave them a scrub with the soft copper wire brush and acetone again, and they came up really nicely.

F2 Wednesday 1 February 2023 5 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

What was interesting to me is that they're "Nissin" brand, so I'm wondering if they're the originals? If not, I suppose they must have been supplied by a Honda dealer, as I've never seen them.

F2 Wednesday 1 February 2023 4 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

I cleaned all the crud off the mounting brackets, scrubbed each disc on both sides with acetone again, and reinstalled the calipers. I bled the brakes and manually tested them, and they felt pretty good. I washed all of the brake fluid off the bike and my driveway with soapy water then rinsed everything, we all know what great paint stripper brake fluid is. I thought about going for a ride, so turned the key and thumbed the button, but the crappy battery I put in it was almost flat, so I put it on the charger overnight.

F2 Wednesday 1 February 2023 7 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr

It's been a crappy day today, almost cold (low 70's) and really windy, but I thought a quick lap around the block would be in order. I went out to the bike, disconnected the battery charger and thumbed the button and this time it roared into life, and I connected my charging system tester and the alternator output was good.

But when I grabbed the brake lever it was a bit "mooshy", and I noticed that brake fluid was dripping on my driveway, so I have to accept that the MC seal is blown. I hated to do it, but had no choice, I searched Ebay for a rebuild kit, but they were all in the US and I don't want to wait weeks, so I bought a new repro MC from an Australian seller that I've bought from in the past. It should be here next week, but I'll probably still go for a sneaky lap tomorrow or on the weekend, the back brake works fine and I won't be going far, hell, I rode that BMW over 1000 miles with only a functional rear brake last year, so no biggie.

I did manage to fix the droopy rear blinker, it had a stripped non-OEM screw holding it in place and the dowel was missing, so I found a good OEM screw, nut and dowel and tightened it up, and now it's good. All in all, it's getting very close to being finished.

[RAFster122s]

Gee Terry in record time...
Glad things are falling into place so nicely. At this speed it will be a quick flip of your money with decent return on investment of time and money.
So, when are new tires arriving or you going to leave that for the buyer?

[MauiK3]

Sounds like fun. Rear brake only is a bit scary, I know you know this well but the front brake is always reassuring.
I wonder what got the hoses so clogged up? It's not like they are exposed to the outside at all.

[newday777]

Sounds like fun. Rear brake only is a bit scary, I know you know this well but the front brake is always reassuring.
I wonder what got the hoses so clogged up? It's not like they are exposed to the outside at all.

Moisture got in the system from not being flushed yearly.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I learned a new word a while ago, brake fluid is “hygroscopic”, in that it draws moisture from the air, so even though your brakes are a sealed system, when moisture gets in, it causes rust/corrosion.

Yes David, I’ll take the wheels over to the tyre shop and have new Stinko’s fitted, like me they’re cheap, and as good as the “name brand” tyres that people like to argue over. The Dunlop K81 (that I didn’t like when new) on the front and Michelin on the back have plenty of tread and no age cracking, so fine for a lap around the block on a dry road, but definitely not confidence inspiring, and I’d hate to be the first person to crash this bike, trying to find a dent free F2 tank in original paint with no rust would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Those F tanks are getting rarer than hen's teeth.  That's a solid looking survivor F.  The buyer will be lucky you sorted it all out.

[grcamna2]

Yep, I learned a new word a while ago, brake fluid is “hygroscopic”, in that it draws moisture from the air, so even though your brakes are a sealed system, when moisture gets in, it causes rust/corrosion.

Yes David, I’ll take the wheels over to the tyre shop and have new Stinko’s fitted, like me they’re cheap, and as good as the “name brand” tyres that people like to argue over. The Dunlop K81 (that I didn’t like when new) on the front and Michelin on the back have plenty of tread and no age cracking, so fine for a lap around the block on a dry road, but definitely not confidence inspiring, and I’d hate to be the first person to crash this bike, trying to find a dent free F2 tank in original paint with no rust would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

G'Day Terry, I learned about that 'hygroscopic' thing;the way I understand it is somehow,the brake fluid acts to attract moisture/H20 into itself like a magnet.
I believe the pores in the rubber hoses and seals allow the moisture through and foul the 'mix' of brake fluid. 

[Terry in Australia]

Those F tanks are getting rarer than hen's teeth.  That's a solid looking survivor F.  The buyer will be lucky you sorted it all out.

Thanks Don, it’s a real rarity here, most of the nice ones here are recent US imports, so to find an Australian delivered F2, and an ex-cop bike to boot, is truly a “special find”. My “One percenter” mate wants to trade a Kawasaki Mach III 500 for my K2, so I’m starting to think I might just keep the F2 as it’s of more interest to me than making a buck. I think I better take it for a ride before I make a decision.

[BenelliSEI]

Terry ...... not sure I mention this, but you suggested the “stinkos” for my my last F. They looked great and performed well. Excellent tire value (especially for a bike I was sure to sell)!

[Terry in Australia]

Thanks John, yep, they’re fantastic value for money, I have spent a lot more on “Brand Name” tyres, only to be disappointed. Obviously I won’t be putting Stinko’s on my RC51, but they’re more than adequate for our old bikes.

[Tintop]

Sounds like fun. Rear brake only is a bit scary, I know you know this well but the front brake is always reassuring.
I wonder what got the hoses so clogged up? It's not like they are exposed to the outside at all.

Moisture got in the system from not being flushed yearly.

+1 DOT 3/4 will both suck up moisture.  Only silicone brake fluid is safe that way.  However, you need to start with a clean system.  I change the carriage fluid every other year.  Got to protect the Brembo's.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Those F tanks are getting rarer than hen's teeth.  That's a solid looking survivor F.  The buyer will be lucky you sorted it all out.

Thanks Don, it’s a real rarity here, most of the nice ones here are recent US imports, so to find an Australian delivered F2, and an ex-cop bike to boot, is truly a “special find”. My “One percenter” mate wants to trade a Kawasaki Mach III 500 for my K2, so I’m starting to think I might just keep the F2 as it’s of more interest to me than making a buck. I think I better take it for a ride before I make a decision.

It's funny.  15-20 years ago, the US market was focused only on the 69-76 CB750K models. Prices for F models and K7 and K8 models were undervalued.  Personally (and I know taste is individual) I love the F tanks.

[grcamna2]

I love that blue CB750F2 AUS model bike. 

[seanbarney41]

Those F tanks are getting rarer than hen's teeth.  That's a solid looking survivor F.  The buyer will be lucky you sorted it all out.

Thanks Don, it’s a real rarity here, most of the nice ones here are recent US imports, so to find an Australian delivered F2, and an ex-cop bike to boot, is truly a “special find”. My “One percenter” mate wants to trade a Kawasaki Mach III 500 for my K2, so I’m starting to think I might just keep the F2 as it’s of more interest to me than making a buck. I think I better take it for a ride before I make a decision.

It's funny.  15-20 years ago, the US market was focused only on the 69-76 CB750K models. Prices for F models and K7 and K8 models were undervalued.  Personally (and I know taste is individual) I love the F tanks.

It's still pretty out of whack, in my opinion.  In fact, you can just about buy that useable 750f tank for the same price with the whole bike attached.

[RAFster122s]

The late bikes and Fs will get their day in collector's hands, we just haven't seen it yet. It won't be in the stratosphere like the 69 sandcasts but it will get up there.
Heck, the old 122S I used to own was worth maybe 4k and market just wasn't there yet. Now they are fetching 10-12k for nice examples and 20 for exceptional examples. Still a ways to grow. Fun car with restomod treatment to enhance suspension and motor.
The rarity of the F bikes might make them draw more than the sandcastle one day, despite their weaknesses that can be overcome.
David