Topic: Any tips or tricks for head and main stud install?

[Don R]

 I picked up a set of used main and head studs last year and intend to use a set of the main studs in the stroker motor that didn't have studs and both sets in the new motor I'm assembling. Anyway, being used I don't have any instructions.
 I seem to recall from previous discussions that the head studs have an up and a down, and we learned about the Suzuki bandit acorn head nuts sealing the oil on the main stud side.
  I think the top of the block needs the threads chased, the heavy-duty head studs start out really tight.
  Anything else like a stud install torque spec in the aluminum block? My arp studs for the big block chevy didn't want to be pre torqued but it seems I remember that these engines do?   

[Tracksnblades1]

Don,,

Old Johnny pops use lead washers under the nuts of their head studs, valve cover studs, etc…
I think they’re still available. Most of them are too large for sohc. I’ve used the 3/8 size for troublesome bolt/studs.
Never used them on a sohc, but they work well with machine washer nuts in other applications.

We’ve already talked toe to toe about BBC and SBC head studs. I put ‘em all in using the Smokey Yunick method.
It insures they pull up perpendicular allow the nuts to set flat on the head. Prevents any angled or loaded studs due to thread hole drilling errors.

Picture of the two ends..?

[MRieck]

Don,,

Old Johnny pops use lead washers under the nuts of their head studs, valve cover studs, etc…
I think they’re still available. Most of them are too large for sohc. I’ve used the 3/8 size for troublesome bolt/studs.
Never used them on a sohc, but they work well with machine washer nuts in other applications.

We’ve already talked toe to toe about BBC and SBC head studs. I put ‘em all in using the Smokey Yunick method.
It insures they pull up perpendicular allow the nuts to set flat on the head. Prevents any angled or loaded studs due to thread hole drilling errors.

Picture of the two ends..?

Yunick's advice is very good almost 60 years later. I'd add measure the stud protrusion and make sure there are a couple of threads showing after tightening the nuts. The studs don't have to bottom....using Loctite will secure them. There is a whole thing on studs not being torqued into their threaded holes and distorted the hole threads.

[Tracksnblades1]

Don,,

Old Johnny pops use lead washers under the nuts of their head studs, valve cover studs, etc…
I think they’re still available. Most of them are too large for sohc. I’ve used the 3/8 size for troublesome bolt/studs.
Never used them on a sohc, but they work well with machine washer nuts in other applications.

We’ve already talked toe to toe about BBC and SBC head studs. I put ‘em all in using the Smokey Yunick method.
It insures they pull up perpendicular allow the nuts to set flat on the head. Prevents any angled or loaded studs due to thread hole drilling errors.

Picture of the two ends..?

The Eunice is good advice almost 60 years later. I'd add measure the stud protrusion and make sure there are a couple of threads showing after tightening the nuts. The studs don't have to bottom....using Loctite will secure them. There is a whole thing on studs not being torqued into their threaded holes and distorted the hole threads.

A true disciple of the Legend. 😇.  Remembering now the same, even have all his books. Somewhere…

His quotes:

“If you’re not Winning, you’re not cheating enough”.

“12.5:1 compression is ideal and she’ll live to the end of the race. But if you don’t go 14:1 + or as much as you can get, some else will and you will lose”.

Exactly, while the loctite is still wet, place the barrels, head on. Run all the nuts down really snug. Due to the thread stud clearances, this allows the studs to pull straight up aligning the studs in slightly angled threaded holes. While wet the loctite flows to fill the irregularities in the thread bolt clearances. Wait 24 hrs remove nuts and build her..To understand this better, screw a bolt into a threaded hole loosely. See how far you can move it side to side.

He wrote and we’ve tried this on bbc blower motors and SBCs Nats… Use his stud installation technique, Install same type of head gasket you’re planning on running, torque, torque plate to your preferred cylinder head torque. Pump hot water through block at the temperature you’re planning on running. Let cool, retorque torque plates. Pump hot water through at desired temp. Finish hone cylinders. The top inch or more of Chevy’s cylinders  are pulled in a thousand or more around each stud by this torque deflecting the OEM deck. Effectively reducing the diameter and destroying the perfect round cylinder at the most important top of stroke. Installing and torquing the torque plates simulates this hexagonal shape distortion. Allowing the final hone to effectively remove any distortion created by the torquing process and different deck loadings of different types of head gaskets. Thicker decks reduce this..

Writing further. Tightening or loosening any one cylinder head nut or bolt will increase leak down on an assembled engine.
Smokey ran really small ends gaps. Experimented till they butted. He claimed he didn’t like sweeping the street with blow by.

However with a 33+psi  belt driven mooneyham air cleaner, you’re still going to see some blow by. Even with less than 1% leak down on an old school 496 BBC, You won’t see it blowing leaves off the street. But you will see it. More of it the better it runs.

Let’s not discuss the SmokeRam….😁

[Don R]

 Thanks I remembered some of ole smokeys ideas that we spoke about. I also remember the idea of torquing the mains in increments while checking crank rotation. My first engine builder wanted studs only when the engine was machined with them. Again, that was an iron V8.
 I have questions about this beast that I need to answer before it tries for ignition again. 

[Tracksnblades1]

I think you’re referring to Mr. Falicon….

He wrote an old acticles about green cases and incremental main stud/bolt torquing.
I’ve not read it for a while. I think Ken at cyclex may still have it or explains the same about green cases himself.

Mr. Falicon suggested as you indicated, torgue all the main after correct bearings are installed. Torgue all main
To his mentioned initial torque. Turn the crank as a starting point so you can feel the inial rotating resistance.
Then increase torque to his next slightly higher torque value and paying special attention to any increases in rotational resistance bolt by bolt. Continuing farther and recording each bolts torgue until the torque specification is met. Or until a change of rational resistance is noticed by a particular main stud/bolt. For example if the crankshaft turned freely with all bolts/ studs torqued to 19lbft, but at 20ftlb the third bolt/stud front row from points end caused a significant increase in rational resistance, then he suggest backing it back off and leaving it at 19lbft. Continuing torquing  and recording values until the specified main torque is reached.  Leaving those offending  bolt/studs at their highest torque value observed without causing a significant rotational change in resistance.

Kens method I believe is similar as the man I knew. No bearings installed. Blue Dykem the main bores. Run the special tool though the main’s line bore,
. Checking the blued bores where the high (shiney) spots were being removed by the tool. Clean dykem off of the main bores, installing correct size bearings. Then torquing main to max torque specs checking the rotational resistance.

I think ken has some good pictures of this on his website.

[PeWe]

I have my Kibblewhite cylinder studs removable when head is off.
That was easier to remove and assemble the billet block with engine in frame. (Frank's frame kit).
I let the 4 inner studs around cam chain tunnel be mounted as guidance.

Less studs when assemble pistons on rods make it easier too
Assemble all studs with double nut before head on.

Be careful when using thread locker on the inner long studs for oil feed.

I let all studs sit at my last cylinder removal when fixing a leaky RCS base gasket, clean pistons  and head from leaky guide seals due to guides not  sunken enough for 10mm lift.
Then a slim bored stock cylinder.

I have drilled my heads 2 oil feed stud holes with a 9.5mm drill to ensure oil flow due to thick studs.
I saw they were only ca 8.5mm, stud 8 mm so not much for oil.
My 392 head a little tighter, K2, K6 head 9.0mm almost all the way. Measured with drill and how deep it could go.

Stock studs 6mm so plenty for oil.
So it is understandable that RC had 2 studs shaped for oil flow where needed.

[Don R]

 I didn't find any studs with a reduced diameter. When I sorted out this haul last year, I put all the studs together in a container. Today I sorted out a full set of main studs and two sets of head studs. I do need to chase the bottom threads on the center main studs, they appear to have contacted the dirt in the barn.
  I was referring to that method of torquing the mains. I'm also ordering the Yamaha banshee acorn nuts and copper washers.
 

[slikwilli420]

I didn't find any studs with a reduced diameter. When I sorted out this haul last year, I put all the studs together in a container. Today I sorted out a full set of main studs and two sets of head studs. I do need to chase the bottom threads on the center main studs, they appear to have contacted the dirt in the barn.
  I was referring to that method of torquing the mains. I'm also ordering the Yamaha banshee acorn nuts and copper washers.

I use the tall banshee acorn nuts on both my race bikes and nothing but leak-free performance since I switched. They are rated for like 28lbs of torque so more than adequate for the 17.5lbs I use on my mains. I have never bothered with a sealing washer, just a regular washer and no issues whatsoever.

[Don R]

 Banshee acorn nuts are on the way.

[Tracksnblades1]

Banshee acorn nuts are on the way.

The thing that killed the cat…?

How much $$. ?

[Don R]

 These are $20 for the 10 nuts and washers. I didn't buy the titanium or stainless steel ones.   Oops I meant to say deeze nuts.

 The stud threads are apparently rolled and do not mate well with my thread die. I'll saw a slot in a nut and make a thread chaser. The two center studs are rusty near the ends, where I think they contacted the barn floor.

[Don R]

  I chased the main threads with an 8mm tap, cleaned the studs and installed them long end into the case. I used 13mm hardware store nuts to double up and run the studs in. I measured the thread depth and the start of the threads with a dial indicator, so I didn't force the unthreaded part into the thread area. I just oiled the male threads and everything went well. The two center studs are over-length, the acorn nuts bottomed out before tightening but two copper washers cured the problem.   

 I swapped out the head studs on the 836 motor too, used the same process. Every stock stud broke loose with a pop and threaded right out. I didn't have to tap the ends with a hammer or get out the vise grips. I wire brushed the heavy duty stud threads and tightened them only hand snug with oil on the threads. I may want to take them out at a later date for top case machining.