Topic: Exhaust flange/clamp -- how to clean 'em up? Paint? Treat?

[scottly]

I have invited Oddjod to demonstrate a CB500 running @600 rpm without disturbing noises. I have never heard of one that can do that. The best I ever managed was 800 rpm, when everything was tiptop.
Claims like Oddjob's are easily made. My moto: show, don't tell. Another member, also in the UK site, emphasizes the finetuning after syncing the four carbs by adjusting the airscrews. I have not seen any vid of a CB500 running fine @600 yet or a demonstration of succesfully finetuning CB500 carbs by adjusting the airscrews, not on Youtube, not on any platform. I find that telling. Again: show, don't tell.

You have been warned before about this type of post.

[Oddjob]

Missing the spring washers from under the nuts Ozzybud, fair to good chance the nuts will vibrate off and you’ll lose the collets if you’re unlucky.

Oddjob.. By design the spring washer is not required . Torquing  the 2 nuts across the span puts them under a spring load. The only exploded view that shows it's use is the CB550. . The 350,400,and 750 in my collection do not have spring washers nor does the parts  list for these bikes.

Pic of unrestored super low mile CB350F.

Honda engineering back in the day was superior. They built and assembled bikes to last for years and they have
I ppersonally have never had one come off or come loose.
We are not going to add washers 50 years later because we think it's a better idea. I'll stick to as designed and built restorations and builds.

But the thread is about a 550f, so it was reasonable to assume your picture was from a 550f

[Ozzybud]

Missing the spring washers from under the nuts Ozzybud, fair to good chance the nuts will vibrate off and you’ll lose the collets if you’re unlucky.

Oddjob.. By design the spring washer is not required . Torquing  the 2 nuts across the span puts them under a spring load. The only exploded view that shows it's use is the CB550. . The 350,400,and 750 in my collection do not have spring washers nor does the parts  list for these bikes.

Pic of unrestored super low mile CB350F.

Honda engineering back in the day was superior. They built and assembled bikes to last for years and they have
I ppersonally have never had one come off or come loose.
We are not going to add washers 50 years later because we think it's a better idea. I'll stick to as designed and built restorations and builds.

But the thread is about a 550f, so it was reasonable to assume your picture was from a 550f

Fair statement.  Except the CB550F1 and  2 do not use a locknut.
Only the K's call for it as my 1975 Cb550K1 has the lock nuts

[HondaMan]

Missing the spring washers from under the nuts Ozzybud, fair to good chance the nuts will vibrate off and you’ll lose the collets if you’re unlucky.

Oddjob.. By design the spring washer is not required . Torquing  the 2 nuts across the span puts them under a spring load. The only exploded view that shows it's use is the CB550. . The 350,400,and 750 in my collection do not have spring washers nor does the parts  list for these bikes.

Pic of unrestored super low mile CB350F.

Honda engineering back in the day was superior. They built and assembled bikes to last for years and they have
I ppersonally have never had one come off or come loose.
We are not going to add washers 50 years later because we think it's a better idea. I'll stick to as designed and built restorations and builds.

I suppose the confusion about the lockwashers/springwashers might be due to the 750K0-6 bikes having them?
At least, those that still have the original pipes... Many aftermarket pipes came with differing plates instead of the OEM clamps, and some of those didn't use the washers, either. Hooker comes to mind as one.

[Oddjob]

Missing the spring washers from under the nuts Ozzybud, fair to good chance the nuts will vibrate off and you’ll lose the collets if you’re unlucky.

Oddjob.. By design the spring washer is not required . Torquing  the 2 nuts across the span puts them under a spring load. The only exploded view that shows it's use is the CB550. . The 350,400,and 750 in my collection do not have spring washers nor does the parts  list for these bikes.

Pic of unrestored super low mile CB350F.

Honda engineering back in the day was superior. They built and assembled bikes to last for years and they have
I ppersonally have never had one come off or come loose.
We are not going to add washers 50 years later because we think it's a better idea. I'll stick to as designed and built restorations and builds.

But the thread is about a 550f, so it was reasonable to assume your picture was from a 550f

Fair statement.  Except the CB550F1 and  2 do not use a locknut.
Only the K's call for it as my 1975 Cb550K1 has the lock nuts

Sorry but terminology is getting confusing here. Locknut? The 550f1/2 both used a spring washer and a plain 6mm nut, only when Honda changed to a flanged 6mm nut did they drop the spring washer, that’s every parts book I’ve ever seen including my own. Check the parts books listed on CMS if you doubt me, including the USA specific ones. I’ve worked on hundreds of 500/550s and they all had spring washers fitted, which is why I felt it prudent to warn you of the lack of them in your picture, no other motive.

[dave500]

bloody over the top oddjob!!great work,best ive managed is wire wheel,acid soak then high temp silver,they are fiddly,dont forget these bikes were churned out en mass in the day and there were more features on these as modern bikes to care about than the detail on those exhaust flanges.

[M 750K6]

I stripped my 750 down to the frame last year and spruced it all up. There are a couple of things my eye gets drawn to, as a result. The exhaust roses is one of those things.

At the moment, I brass brush any corrosion peeping through, dab on a rust treatment and then dab on some high temp silver. I'm winning, as less comes through each time.

I'm envious of Oddjobs solution. VERY nice. 👍

I don't think it's odd or obsessive to take pride in these classic bikes looking as good as they run. It's a hobby I really enjoy.

[dave500]

i call them roses aswell!

[Oddjob]

So do you think giving the wife a few of them on our anniversary would pass muster 

Seriously though, thanks for all the compliments but genuinely that is not why I post pics like that, it's to inspire people to try and reclaim some of the stuff we throw away these days, far too many just fit new and leave the old stuff rotting in a box somewhere. I get great satisfaction out of rescuing parts that others would give up on, in fact a UK member followed in my footsteps and did his exhaust clamps (roses  ) the same way, ground off all the casting marks, sanded, then polished and finally had them chromed. Unlike me however he sent his to a triple plater so even though his prep work might not have been as good as mine the fact they covered these imperfections up with a copper layer meant the end result was even better than mine, mine were good, his were REALLY good. Difference was mine cost me around £5 each to do whereas his cost considerably more than that I'd imagine.

I also post to show others what I've learned by experimenting with finishes, what works, what doesn't etc so they can make an informed decision on how to proceed with their parts. I won't be around forever, if I say nothing it all passes with me, so even though it can upset some people (and it does) that's what I'm going to keep doing.

I've just completed a CB550F clutch case, which was so bad I almost gave up on at the beginning, worse thing I've ever brought back from the brink, now it looks like it's been chromed. I don't win them all but when I do I really get a nice buzz.

[BenelliSEI]

Awesome work and “recycling” at it’s finest!

[newday777]

I also take mine over to the bench grinder wire wheel.
I might try some Cerakote on them to see how it does.
As long as the chrome isn't flaking off, they clean up pretty good. The same thing with chrome bolts that are rusty.
A before and after the wire wheel.

[carnivorous chicken]

When I removed the exhaust on my 550F1 it had spring washers under the nuts, although the CMS parts fiche doesn't show them. I'll keep em on there just to be sure.

30+ years ago when I bought my first 550K, the PO had put two nuts on each stud and that seemed to work too -- maybe not necessary but I kept it that way. It was a Kerker system.

[MauiK3]

I always wondered if the fins on the clamps really served a heat dissipation purpose or were there for looks

[carnivorous chicken]

I always wondered if the fins on the clamps really served a heat dissipation purpose or were there for looks

It's a good question. Seems plausible, maybe someone knows for sure -- but plenty of aftermarket clamps didn't have them.

[CycleRanger]

I always wondered if the fins on the clamps really served a heat dissipation purpose or were there for looks

Probably a bit of both.
I bead-blast them. I've never had any that had more than a bit of surface rust, lucky I guess.
They clean up pretty good and I try to stay out of the rain.

[Oddjob]

When I removed the exhaust on my 550F1 it had spring washers under the nuts, although the CMS parts fiche doesn't show them.

It actually does CC, although there is a small error on the page, it shows the nut and the spring washer as the same part, No.18, when the spring is No.18 and the nut is No.16. If you look down the list you'll see No.18 is a 6mm spring washer.

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f-super-sport-550-four-1976-usa_model467/partslist/F++16.html

[Oddjob]

I always wondered if the fins on the clamps really served a heat dissipation purpose or were there for looks

I suppose we'll find out when I fit the finless clamp, if it goes blue then yes it needs them. I suspect it doesn't and they were made like that so they looked like British bikes of the past.

[Rayzerman]

I have a Delkevic exhaust on the CB350F, and it comes with flat stainless flanges.  No lockwasher required really, the spring pressure and the compression of the exhaust gaskets will keep 'em snug.  But check once in a while anyway.... if I were using lockwashers, I'd get stainless ones.  I took off the stainless nuts Delkevic had and put domed chrome nuts on with a little anti-seize. Available in different height of dome in case your studs are a bit longer.

[carnivorous chicken]

When I removed the exhaust on my 550F1 it had spring washers under the nuts, although the CMS parts fiche doesn't show them.

It actually does CC, although there is a small error on the page, it shows the nut and the spring washer as the same part, No.18, when the spring is No.18 and the nut is No.16. If you look down the list you'll see No.18 is a 6mm spring washer.

https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb550f-super-sport-550-four-1976-usa_model467/partslist/F++16.html

Right you are. In the diagram I just saw two #18s (that's the error I guess) and assumed it was a nut for each side.

[jlh3rd]

From a first edition, 1975 Honda 550F, U.S. model , Honda parts book.
#11 - 6mm hex nut
#12 - 6mm spring washer.

[Oddjob]

Oddly the 550F2 went to a flanged nut and lost the spring washer.

[jonda500]

I have replaced the spring washers with plain washers on my 500's/550. I don't like how the spring washers scrape a little metal off every time I remove them! I always remember to re-check the tightness of the nuts a few heat cycles after having the exhaust off - usually a few go a little tighter especially if the copper seals have been replaced.

I sourced a couple of pairs of flanges from ebay to replace my rusted peeling chrome set and successfully cleaned them up with a rotary wire brush in a drill. I believe the 350/400/500/550 all use the same size flanges, but there are two variations, one with slightly longer fins. I like the look of the shorter finned ones better, but would love to know if they came first as I suspect?
John

[Oddjob]

May I suggest ditching the plain washers and just using flanged nuts instead, you can get them with a serrated flange now so they'll grip as they tighten but not enough to mark the chrome, it's why I always place a flat washer under any spring as they can dig into the surface of whatever they are tightened against.

As for the clamps, not sure the 350/400 clamps would fit a 500/550, I think the central hole differs due to header width. The 500 clamp is different from the 550 though, something I discovered when cleaning up all mine, I kept wondering why some looked different and then asked, easy to spot from the back, not so much from the front. 550 top, 500 bottom, much thinner side wall on the 550, not sure if they are the same psychical size, never thought to check TBH. It's easier to clean a 550 one than a 500 IIRC due to spacing.

[wolf550]

when I cleaned up the 500/550 to get ready to sell, I also brushed the exhaust collars as they had a good amount of rust but after some time here in TN they are rusty again. I never did hear marissas outcome when she made some out of aluminum but from the posts that replied to her, the temp from the exhaust should be low enough to not warp.

[Rider39]

https://www.cerakote.com/shop/cerakote-coating/C-7700/cerakote-glacier-silver

De-grease - blast - coat = done