Author Topic: Dreadnoughts ?  (Read 5995 times)

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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2007, 10:16:09 AM »
Speaking about Iowa class battleships...
A long time ago, when I was eleven or twelve years old, I assembled a plastic “kit” of USS Missouri, from Revel.
Those toys where great, and the assembling instructions came with a short story of the boat, and I was very impressed because the Japanese surrender act took place aboard USS Missouri.


I have the 1:350 Tamiya kit of USS New Jersey at home.  At over 2' long it makes a pretty impressive sight on it's own shelf over my computer 8)  At the minute, I'm trying justify to myself the cost of USS Enterprise to accompany it ;D
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Offline Rushoid

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2007, 10:37:41 AM »
At the minute, I'm trying justify to myself the cost of USS Enterprise to accompany it ;D
I got that one for my birthday a few years ago. I haven't gotten up the nerve to start on it yet.  :o Years ago, I built a 1:720 scale Nimitz. The ship didn't turn out so great, but I was pretty proud of my work on all of the tiny little aircraft. I even scored the wings for folding. I kept those, but I think I sank the ship with bottle rockets or something.  ::)
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2007, 11:10:40 AM »
yea and our vaunted politicians said the battleships were too expensive to maintain,them damn things put the fear of god into our enemies better than any other weapon we have.
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Offline Dawdlin Dog

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2007, 02:36:14 PM »
yea and our vaunted politicians said the battleships were too expensive to maintain,them damn things put the fear of god into our enemies better than any other weapon we have.

57,271 tons of steel that can bounce nine 16" shells off your head at the same time is pretty un-argueable with isn't it?  ;D

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2007, 04:08:17 PM »
The Mo in Hawaii Mar 18, 2000.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2007, 04:09:45 PM »
More Mo in Hawaii Mar 18, 2000.
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Offline burmashave

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2007, 08:26:19 PM »
You gents must have followed the story about how San Fran rejected the Iowa last summer:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/14/BAGLJDNMCA1.DTL

I am still ashamed.
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2007, 08:42:23 PM »
 :(

The decision can't have been a big surprise though Burma, San Fransico has always been know for it's pinko liberals ::)
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Offline burmashave

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2007, 08:55:47 AM »
It wasn't the surprise, so much as the acrimony, that saddened me.  To her credit, Sen. Barbara Boxer secured funding and pushed to have the Iowa moored in San Fran, but the city council bleated about how the "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the military.  They bemoaned the horror of actually having a warship docked in the city.  No one seemed to grasp that the Iowa has nothing to do with the policy on gays in the military, nor did the councilmen clue into the fact that the Iowa is a memorial to sailors and soldiers fallen, instead of an active instrument of war.

It pains me that our veterans had to watch that unfold, and it reminds me of my favorite poem, Tommy by Rudyard Kipling:

Quote

  ...I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
  They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
  They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
  But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
    But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
    The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
    O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide....
 
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Offline Orcinus

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2007, 09:00:11 PM »
This is no surprise to me... I'm living in Okiehoma  almost entirely due to the City and County of San Francisco NOT wanting one of the Iowa class ships while they were still in service.  Let me explain.  Back when all 4 of the Iowa's were freshly reactivated and showing the flag.  The US Navy decided that they would base the Missouri in San Francisco.  The Gov't owned a large piece of property just south of the city, the site of the former Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard which had closed in the 70's.  This expensive ghost town, was to be refurbished as the base of the Mo, along with all of it's support ships and maintenance shops.  This would have added several million a year to the tax roles of SF.  Not to mention all the jobs it would have provided.  Well, the left wing nut jobs got a item on the ballot excluding nuclear weapons from being in the county.  Since the Navy will never confirm or deny the possession of "special" weapons, this excluded the ship from being based at Hunter's Point.  So the Navy built the Mo a nice new base up at Seattle.  The problem is, the Navy holds a grudge.  A year later, when they started the BRAC rounds to close unneeded bases... They closed everything bigger than a recruiting station in the San Francisco Bay Area.  This included the base that I worked at, which had only a year earlier been acknowledged as being among the most valuable of the bases doing the same sort of work.  I had to relocate halfway across the country to find a similar federal job so I can finish my career.  The most telling item of the time was a political cartoon I saw.  It showed the Mo sailing away from a pier, the pier was covered in cheering hippies with "No Nuke" signs and the aft 3 gun turret had 2 barrels bent to look like someone flipping the bird.  They made a huge, huge mistake.
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Offline CrisPDuk

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2007, 01:06:28 AM »
Completely off topic, but I've just finished reading a book called 'A Crack In The Edge OF The World' by a guy called Simon Winchester, about the prelude to, and the aftermath of, the 1906 earthquake :o

Suffice to say, San Fransisco's governing bodies have a long history of less than honourable behaviour, just ask those who fought to re-establish Chinatown >:(
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Offline xtalon

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2007, 07:43:33 AM »
This is no surprise to me... I'm living in Okiehoma  almost entirely due to the City and County of San Francisco NOT wanting one of the Iowa class ships while they were still in service.  Let me explain.  Back when all 4 of the Iowa's were freshly reactivated and showing the flag.  The US Navy decided that they would base the Missouri in San Francisco.  The Gov't owned a large piece of property just south of the city, the site of the former Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard which had closed in the 70's.  This expensive ghost town, was to be refurbished as the base of the Mo, along with all of it's support ships and maintenance shops.  This would have added several million a year to the tax roles of SF.  Not to mention all the jobs it would have provided.  Well, the left wing nut jobs got a item on the ballot excluding nuclear weapons from being in the county.  Since the Navy will never confirm or deny the possession of "special" weapons, this excluded the ship from being based at Hunter's Point.  So the Navy built the Mo a nice new base up at Seattle.  The problem is, the Navy holds a grudge.  A year later, when they started the BRAC rounds to close unneeded bases... They closed everything bigger than a recruiting station in the San Francisco Bay Area.  This included the base that I worked at, which had only a year earlier been acknowledged as being among the most valuable of the bases doing the same sort of work.  I had to relocate halfway across the country to find a similar federal job so I can finish my career.  The most telling item of the time was a political cartoon I saw.  It showed the Mo sailing away from a pier, the pier was covered in cheering hippies with "No Nuke" signs and the aft 3 gun turret had 2 barrels bent to look like someone flipping the bird.  They made a huge, huge mistake.

That Sucks big time!  Sorry you had to relocate, but sounds like you may be better off.

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Offline burmashave

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2007, 10:19:21 AM »
That does stink, Orcinus.  Needless pain.
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Offline Orcinus

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2007, 04:13:55 PM »

That Sucks big time!  Sorry you had to relocate, but sounds like you may be better off.

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Yeah, perhaps, but I still miss Northern California.  Not only better riding weather, but all the family is back there.
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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2007, 04:25:17 PM »
As screwed up as San Francisco is ... at least they kept the WWII submarine USS Pampanito (SS-383) which is very impressive if you get the chance to see it.

Source: http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm

Offline Orcinus

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2007, 07:07:54 PM »
Yeah, she's a beaut... I got to work on her a couple times.  I was a Naval Reservist and former Sub sailor so she's right up my alley.
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Offline xtalon

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2007, 07:00:51 AM »
As screwed up as San Francisco is ... at least they kept the WWII submarine USS Pampanito (SS-383) which is very impressive if you get the chance to see it.

Source: http://www.maritime.org/pamphome.htm

I was in Charleston, SC last week and was directly across the harbor from the USS Yorktown.  I haven't actually been to it since I was a kid.  Discovered last week that they also have a destroyer, USS Laffey, a Coast Guard Cutter, USCG Ingham, AND a submarine, USS Clamagore!!!

Next time I am in Charleston, I'm definitley going on the tour.

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Offline heffay

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2007, 09:17:59 AM »
yay for big boats that kill people  :-\  woooo hoooo
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Offline xtalon

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2007, 09:35:11 AM »
yay for big boats that kill people  :-\  woooo hoooo

I think that's why they call it 'open forum', besides no one forced you to look (edit: but since you are a moderator, I guess you have to look).

I don't think anyone here is marvelling over their ability to kill people... more the engineering, mechanical and technological  aspects.

Motorcycles kill people too.  Boo Hiss!

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« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 09:43:01 AM by xtalon »
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2007, 11:28:37 AM »
yay for big boats that kill people  :-\  woooo hoooo

No they don't.  It's just an inanimate machine. 

But, it seems San Francisco policians would condsider you a kindred sprirt.

Perhaps you'd prefer to be speaking native Japanese or German?
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline heffay

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2007, 12:06:46 PM »
hmmm... a killing machine... a machine built to kill... it would seem they kill people to me.

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Offline heffay

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2007, 12:09:48 PM »
yay for big boats that kill people  :-\  woooo hoooo

I think that's why they call it 'open forum', besides no one forced you to look (edit: but since you are a moderator, I guess you have to look).

I don't think anyone here is marvelling over their ability to kill people... more the engineering, mechanical and technological  aspects.

Motorcycles kill people too.  Boo Hiss!

--xTalon

precisely, i was expressing my opinion.  that's all.  after all, like you say, it is the open forum.

so motorcycles were built for war specifically?  interesting.
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Offline Stormer

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2007, 12:18:50 PM »
yay for big boats that kill people  :-\  woooo hoooo

With maximum respect, I don't think it's about to kill people, but about history, in it's good and bad moments.
Sory the bad english.

Offline xtalon

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2007, 03:03:14 PM »
yay for big boats that kill people  :-\  woooo hoooo

I think that's why they call it 'open forum', besides no one forced you to look (edit: but since you are a moderator, I guess you have to look).

I don't think anyone here is marvelling over their ability to kill people... more the engineering, mechanical and technological  aspects.

Motorcycles kill people too.  Boo Hiss!

--xTalon

precisely, i was expressing my opinion.  that's all.  after all, like you say, it is the open forum.

so motorcycles were built for war specifically?  interesting.

Machines do not kill people.  Man kills people.  Judge man, not the machine.

You may not like what these ships respresent (to you), but to others, these machines represent something else entirely... history, mechanics and maybe even something that saved their life.  You should try to respect that.

I understand you see these ships in an entirely different way and I semi-understand where you are coming from, but again, I think you should judge man and not these ships and no one here is admiring man's ability to kill his fellow man.

You are entitled to see them however you want and give an opinion, but as someone else pointed out, without these ships and other implements of war, you may have lived in a country where you are not able to give that opinion.

--xTalon
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Dreadnoughts ?
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2007, 03:23:12 PM »
hmmm... a killing machine... a machine built to kill... it would seem they kill people to me.



This isn't logic. This isn't rational.  This is rationalizing.  Possibly anthropomorphizising.  Imaginative, but unreal.

By this rationale, the auto industry is nothing but a killing machine.  And, possibly more effective than all the dreadnoughts combined.

By a simmilar association, I can claim that clothes are killing machines, too.  They are used in nearly ALL wars, murders, crimes, etc., designed and made to kill.  Yeah... killing machines.  Beware the sheets on your bed.  Designed for strangulation, methinks.. in the right (or wrong) hands.

 ::)
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