Topic: Valve spring install heights

[johno]

Hi All,
Just checking the valve spring heights and pressures today on my Last Honda engine. Doc said I'm cooked so Ive built a nice engine out of all my spares laying around. All the usual bits , lightened prepped crank, decent rods, 836 pistoles, web cam RC315, Kibblewhite springs all chains and rubbers replaced etc.
Anyway my whole life I used dividing calipers to measure the base to underside of the retainers etc but just for a laugh I bought a micrometer barrel type the car boys use. It didn't fit in the base of our heads so I turned it down to fit. A lot of you blokes would be smarter than me but I normally install a light spring to check the heights. However today I used both the dividers and the micrometer barrel and was a bit shocked at the difference.  I checked using 3 retainers, stock , RC Eng alloy, Kibblewhite.
The average difference between the dividers and the Micrometer was .050" or 1.2mm. More using the micrometer type.
Thats another full shim. It is due to putting more pressure against the retainer / collets and ensuring the retainer is square than when using a light checking spring.
Just out of curiosity at installed height I checked, new standard spring, new RC Engineering spring and Kibblewhite. Interestingly the new standard spring and Kibblewhite were close to being the same and the new RC Eng spring was 10lbs more.
Also Kibblewhite say to run Installed height of 1.330" but that is way to high for me, not sure how accurate my gauge is but was showing over 100lbs.
All this is not absolute of course, at the end of the day one could throw them in with a shim under and the bike will run nicely, if it ever dropped a valve it would more than likely when you missed 2nd and broke the taco cable.lol 🏁

[MRieck]

Kibblewhite installed height numbers are very suspect Johno. I use the Rimac spring tester and set the height to what pressure I want.

[johno]

Thanks Mike,
I have a similar tester to the Rimac but its getting old now and I have checked it at 150lbs a few years ago but I sure its way out as it gets to the 60 to 70 end. If it wasn't my last motor I would buy a lower test spring.
My heights are 1.385" and Im wanting 70lb; You would have shares in KibbleWhite Mike 😁 what do you think would be a close number for that height ?
cheers Johno

[scottly]

Hi All,
Doc said I'm cooked

Uh, do you care to share Mark??

[johno]

Scotty,
Very observant grasshopper.
Simple really, I feel young, some say I don't look like an old man, but somewhere on the journey I must have used up my share of heart beats and the old ticker has turned to leather. They call it chronic heat failure at 20% capacity. over the last nine months Ive been resuscitated twice ( can't keep a good man down they say) got all the toys implanted, pacemakers, defribulator wi fi controls and lots of drugs that are keeping me going but I had my last tuneup couple weeks ago when everything drugs implants etc are all maxed out. Its most uncomfortable physically but I get to go to my shed for a couple of hours most days and work on SOHC bikes. They keep me going, moral of the story Scottly, don't sell your favourite toy cos its more fun than anything else 😁 Lots of head games going on and Im not talking about cylinder heads, forums a positive thing too and Im sure there would be a lot of SOHC forum old farts as bad or worse than me.
They pull ya licence and that's the biggest challenge so Im looking at what is the biggest HP electric gopher on the market & put a SOHC sticker on it and continue to post on the Hi performance forum 🏍🏁
enough of me !
cheers Johno

[MRieck]

Hi All,
Just checking the valve spring heights and pressures today on my Last Honda engine. Doc said I'm cooked so Ive built a nice engine out of all my spares laying around. All the usual bits , lightened prepped crank, decent rods, 836 pistoles, web cam RC315, Kibblewhite springs all chains and rubbers replaced etc.
Anyway my whole life I used dividing calipers to measure the base to underside of the retainers etc but just for a laugh I bought a micrometer barrel type the car boys use. It didn't fit in the base of our heads so I turned it down to fit. A lot of you blokes would be smarter than me but I normally install a light spring to check the heights. However today I used both the dividers and the micrometer barrel and was a bit shocked at the difference.  I checked using 3 retainers, stock , RC Eng alloy, Kibblewhite.
The average difference between the dividers and the Micrometer was .050" or 1.2mm. More using the micrometer type.
Thats another full shim. It is due to putting more pressure against the retainer / collets and ensuring the retainer is square than when using a light checking spring.
Just out of curiosity at installed height I checked, new standard spring, new RC Engineering spring and Kibblewhite. Interestingly the new standard spring and Kibblewhite were close to being the same and the new RC Eng spring was 10lbs more.
Also Kibblewhite say to run Installed height of 1.330" but that is way to high for me, not sure how accurate my gauge is but was showing over 100lbs.
All this is not absolute of course, at the end of the day one could throw them in with a shim under and the bike will run nicely, if it ever dropped a valve it would more than likely when you missed 2nd and broke the taco cable.lol 🏁

Sorry to hear about the health problems brother. You are right about the forums.....I have met...directly and indirectly....some of the finest people in my life.
 I am at the new home in NH right now and don't have access to my notes or equipment. I set those springs to about 80lbs to 85lbs for street use. IH is closer to 1.400 if memory serves correct. I usually use a .030 or add a .015 to that depending on cam etc. That is for dual springs. Beehives generally don't require shims.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Sorry to hear. I was wondering also. Keep kicking Johno. 20% is better than 0%. I like your mental outlook. Stay as positive as possible. Transplant possible? Maybe you need those Webers to hook up to you pacemaker?!   

[scottly]

A Gerex multi-spark would REALLY juice up a pacemaker!

[willbird]

Lots of head games going on and Im not talking about cylinder heads, forums a positive thing too and Im sure there would be a lot of SOHC forum old farts as bad or worse than me.
They pull ya licence and that's the biggest challenge so Im looking at what is the biggest HP electric gopher on the market & put a SOHC sticker on it and continue to post on the Hi performance forum 🏍🏁
enough of me !
cheers Johno

Well Friend you have more going on than I do but I have been to the place where I have permanent AFIB and it caused my Ejection Fraction to be low(29%). Fortunate so far for me treating the AFIB resolved those CHF symptoms. But in the beginning the head games did happen. Sounds morbid but I looked at our indoor house cat that was only a few years old and thought she might out live me. Had to go back and look, that was 2020. I have 3 pill setups I refill when they go empty and that is another 24 days, and I keep filling them ;-).

Bill

[johno]

Sorry to hear. I was wondering also. Keep kicking Johno. 20% is better than 0%. I like your mental outlook. Stay as positive as possible. Transplant possible? Maybe you need those Webers to hook up to you pacemaker?!

Hi Jerry,
Have you still got those Webbers or are they sold ?
While I was looking through my parts bins for this motor I found a heap of Webber venturi's, jets etc I can't remember what was in them when I sent them as at the time I was running 32mm ventures on the race bike and I think I have the original venturi's.
Funny I also found a heap mags with Honda hot up stuff, my favourite being "Riders Guide for Honda Fours" Feb 1973 and in it is how to fit and tune Webbers to our cb 750's. Also fit dual fronts discs etc, great mag man.
Anyway just out of curiosity and may help someone else the following was what they recommended for set up.
Baseline set up.
30mm venturi's
F11 Emulsion tubes
125 Main jets
200 air jets
MPD needle and seat for gravity feed
Anyway let me know if you sold them or not ?

[johno]

The Maestro Mike was spot on 😇
Hi Mike I checked the spring install height at 1.400 then with a .050" shim it was spot on 80Lbs which I was happy with for the street RC315.
I also had the spring checked on another gauge today and as I suspected my gauge was low at 71lbs so now I know and I can sleep like a baby tonight Thanks mate. 😁🏁🏍🏆🙏

[scottly]

Hey Mark, when we installed the Webers on Jerry's bike at the "family reunion", we fit 32mm chokes, F16 emulsion tubes, 115 mains, and 200 airs IIRC, based on my dyno testing with my 836, along with a bit of a SWAG.

 

[johno]

Great Video Scottly, thank you. There are some serious forum members getting in on the action, would have been a good gig.
Good to see you under some pressure there mate !😁

[johno]

  Seeing as you are the official Webber man, caretaker of the forums Webber posts I will send my stash of webber stuff to you provided that any forum members can access if they are trouble shooting or tuning etc and then return to you when they have it sorted if that would be OK with you. Those little brass bits cost a mint out of Italy, trying and hoping can get expensive.
Send me pm Scottly if your up for it.
cheers Johno

[MRieck]

The Maestro Mike was spot on 😇
Hi Mike I checked the spring install height at 1.400 then with a .050" shim it was spot on 80Lbs which I was happy with for the street RC315.
I also had the spring checked on another gauge today and as I suspected my gauge was low at 71lbs so now I know and I can sleep like a baby tonight Thanks mate. 😁🏁🏍🏆🙏

You're most welcome....now get that head I built you on a salt flat.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Yeah Johno, I still have them.

I'd love to have that Riders Guide. If you ship the bits please throw that in too if you don't mind parting with it. Is this the one you mention?

Thanks for posting the video Scottly. That has shamed me into staying in Colorado and getting out the tools. I can open up a carb and see what's inside too. Back in April.

[MRieck]

Yeah Johno, I still have them.

I'd love to have that Riders Guide. If you ship the bits please throw that in too if you don't mind parting with it. Is this the one you mention?

Thanks for posting the video Scottly. That has shamed me into staying in Colorado and getting out the tools. I can open up a carb and see what's inside too. Back in April.

Are you still hanging around with Fredo banging cocktail waitresses two at a time???

[scottly]

Sorry to hear about the health problems brother. You are right about the forums.....I have met...directly and indirectly....some of the finest people in my life.
 

Ain't it the truth!?

[scottly]

RIP Frank (754) :'(

[johno]

Nice thoughts Scottly .     Who ate the most pizza 
PS I got the message.👍
cheers Johno

[scottly]

The young fellow that Frank talked to about the pizza is FattMatt, who I had met before on the second relay. He had a Power-Arc ignition #$%* the bed, stranding him in the desert until a replacement could be sent. It was my first experience with the PA, and I wasn't impressed. The replacement got him home, and he didn't ride the bike much until the reunion. By that time I knew a bit more about the PA, and I strongly encouraged him to carry all the bits to convert back to points if it died again, which it did, at close to the same spot in the desert as the first time.    

[Old Scrambler]

My RIDERS GUIDE mag is somewhat soaked in oil from shop-use since I had it from new. Johnno.........very sorry to hear of your health condition but I know you will soldier on for all of us.

My beehive springs now have 10-thou shims under two intakes to keep all seat-preassures somewhat equal.

[MRieck]

The young fellow that Frank talked to about the pizza is FattMatt, who I had met before on the second relay. He had a Power-Arc ignition #$%* the bed, stranding him in the desert until a replacement could be sent. It was my first experience with the PA, and I wasn't impressed. The replacement got him home, and he didn't ride the bike much until the reunion. By that time I knew a bit more about the PA, and I strongly encouraged him to carry all the bits to convert back to points if it died again, which it did, at close to the same spot in the desert as the first time.

Don't get Johno started on the Power Arc system.

[Don R]

 I remember after getting a set of springs from APE raceparts, I had recently learned about spring tension, coil bind, and spring harmonics on my race car. I inquired about tension and installed height. Big Jay posted "just put them on and don't worry about it." L0L!

[Old Scrambler]

Not too many years ago I only new ABOUT spring tension...........now that I somewhat understand it and have my own test and measuring tools.........I would say Big Jay was giving out sage advice! Some tension is better than none, but too much tension robs HP and causes unwanted stress to motor parts.