Author Topic: Identify this leak — CB350F  (Read 272 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jpschroeder

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Identify this leak — CB350F
« on: August 25, 2025, 09:11:32 AM »
Ancient CB350F (50K+ miles). Been driving it (albeit with a few other unrelated issues: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,205461.msg2321592.html#msg2321592) pretty regularily. its always leaked just a bit of oil, mostly it just gets all over the fins, but its not enough to really drip on the floor.

Well, yesterday I gave the engine a nice bath so today when I rode it I had time to take a look at where the oil was leaking and I could actually see it bubbling out of a spot right behind where a fin/bolt shaft make love. It wasn't a ton, but right when it was still hot it there were a few little suds of bubbling oil in this spot. It's not at a gasket which seems........conerning.

Thoughts?

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,098
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2025, 12:34:09 PM »
It suggests a head gasket leak. I've seen that one the 350F and 400F before. The head gasket is/was impregnated with adhesive (not unlike rubber cement) throughout, and this design relied on that goo to seal things up. It's just gotten old now, after 50 years of working without pay nor respite...
;)
The hard part of fixing it: modern head gaskets are 0.010" thicker than the one in the engine now. This means that when the head gasket is replaced, the cylinders must also be decked -0.010" to make up this difference, lest this leak return within 500 miles again. The oil seals that sit over the oil jets can't be had in longer sizes (unlike the O-rings in the larger Fours can) so this is the only 'fix' I know (and it works) for the Baby Fours during rebuild.

The bad part about that: once the cylinders are pulled off the pistons, DO NOT DISTURB THE RINGS or the engine won't be happy at all upon reassembly. And, whatever you do, DON'T "replace the rings and hone the cylinders" as this WILL GUARANTEE massive oil burning, and often also big oil weeps that the head joint. Either plan to rebore to bigger pistons and use 0.0004" (that's not a typo) piston-bore clearance, and find a machine shop who won't balk at it, or gently pull the cylinders, have the top milled down 0.010" and install new gaskets, and don't turn the rings on the pistons: leave them alone and reassemble them just as they are. Don't clean the carbon off the pistons, either: it doesn't hurt anything.
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline jpschroeder

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2025, 12:43:37 PM »
Oh thats interesting. Help me understand though, if the head gasket is .01" thicker, why would I need to shorten the piston throw — I would have though I would want to lengthen it to take up that new extra slack?

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,792
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2025, 04:07:25 PM »
You are not shortening any throw you are making the counterbores in the head surface less deep so the seling rubbers are crimped more by the head
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jpschroeder

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2025, 07:05:33 PM »
You are not shortening any throw you are making the counterbores in the head surface less deep so the seling rubbers are crimped more by the head

Ahh, i see, this is about the oil seals not the pistons. Im tracking now. I actually suspect this engine has been redone once before i got it. But I don't have proof of that. Any sure tell-tale signs that its' been opened, milled, bored, or otherwise?

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,098
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2025, 08:07:47 PM »
You are not shortening any throw you are making the counterbores in the head surface less deep so the seling rubbers are crimped more by the head

Ahh, i see, this is about the oil seals not the pistons. Im tracking now. I actually suspect this engine has been redone once before i got it. But I don't have proof of that. Any sure tell-tale signs that its' been opened, milled, bored, or otherwise?

Only if the head is off: the pistons on (the only) 350F I've measured at TDC after the cylinders were milled off 0.010" in that rebuild were 0.015" below the deck at TDC. This was measured when I had put the cylinders down on the pistons during reassembly (I was watching out for any possible valve contact).
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,792
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2025, 08:19:43 PM »
I have a non milled 400 block in my car just rebored, standard bore is 51mm and i will try and find a depth gauge to check thedepth of oil feed holes
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline jpschroeder

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2025, 06:27:42 AM »
I have a non milled 400 block in my car just rebored, standard bore is 51mm and i will try and find a depth gauge to check thedepth of oil feed holes

Amazing. that would be great information.

Offline MauiK3

  • A K3 is saved
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,902
  • Old guy
Re: Identify this leak — CB350F
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2025, 07:46:30 AM »
Good luck with the tight tolerances! If you go that way many shops are unable to reproduce those results.
1973 CB 750 K3
10/72 build Z1 Kawasaki