Author Topic: Oil consumption issue  (Read 240 times)

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Offline Red500

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Oil consumption issue
« on: March 26, 2026, 01:53:26 PM »
Hey guys I've got an issue that's stumped me for a few weeks now hope you guys can figure out what I'm missing or doing wrong, this is my first real project so iota's likely it’s something really stupid but I haven't been able to find something quite like it on any other post.

I've got a 72 CB500 that I bought last summer which someone abandoned mid way through doing the top end, I've rebuilt it and had it running and riding since early January, it was running really well and I was just enjoying it and attempting to get the carbs dialed in until a few weeks ago, it started burning a ton of oil, figured blown head gasket.
There was a good amount of oil in cylinder 2 and a very small amount in cylinder 3 when I opened it up.

So I swapped it out it all back did a compression test an it came back at 170psi plus or minus a few and right off the bat it started burning oil even worse, I ran it for an hour and rode it round the block a few times to make sure it wasn't just burning off from putting it all back together and nothing changed.

So I opened it up a third time, got a new head gasket, got new valve stem seals thinking it would've been from the head swapped all that out, checked ring gap and made sure they're all right side up and it all checked out, put it together and got the same compression and still it was burning oil. I also checked to see if the valves were leaking by putting my finger on the stem and pulling it out and it got good suction and also left oil where the springs are overnight and it didn't leak any.

So the only thing I don't know with confidence that it isn't failing is I found a parts diagram of the head that shows an o-ring under the valve guide (photo),  and I would think that the leak test I did would have ruled that out but I'm not sure. If I don't have to do a valve job that would be great but maybe that's the issue.

Hoping someone can tell me something stupid I'm missing or maybe someone has an idea of what's going on here, thanks!


Offline denward17

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2026, 03:11:35 PM »
Red, welcome to the forum!

There will be some more knowledgeable folks stop by shortly...

But, a couple of questions:

The compression #'s sound great; did you have it rebored and bigger pistons installed; or just honed with new rings?
If just honed and new rings, do you know the piston/cylinder clearance?

Did you check the valve guides to see if they were worn?

Is it blowing the oil out the breather tube?

Offline bryanj

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2026, 03:41:39 PM »
Those O rings will not cause oil burning, neither will a head gasket, especially at 2 and 3.

Firstly as already asked piston to bore clearance and valve to guide clearance
Second is breather blocked
Third is is block surface and head surface flat and not gouged
Forth did valve stems get bent refitting valve cover

Thats about all i can think of at the moment, usual mistake is when reboring machinists will not listen to how tight the clearance needs to be and bore it too big, 2 thou exta is too big
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Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline newday777

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2026, 04:12:22 PM »
Hey guys I've got an issue that's stumped me for a few weeks now hope you guys can figure out what I'm missing or doing wrong, this is my first real project so iota's likely it’s something really stupid but I haven't been able to find something quite like it on any other post.

I've got a 72 CB500 that I bought last summer which someone abandoned mid way through doing the top end, I've rebuilt it and had it running and riding since early January, it was running really well and I was just enjoying it and attempting to get the carbs dialed in until a few weeks ago, it started burning a ton of oil, figured blown head gasket.
There was a good amount of oil in cylinder 2 and a very small amount in cylinder 3 when I opened it up.

So I swapped it out it all back did a compression test an it came back at 170psi plus or minus a few and right off the bat it started burning oil even worse, I ran it for an hour and rode it round the block a few times to make sure it wasn't just burning off from putting it all back together and nothing changed.

So I opened it up a third time, got a new head gasket, got new valve stem seals thinking it would've been from the head swapped all that out, checked ring gap and made sure they're all right side up and it all checked out, put it together and got the same compression and still it was burning oil. I also checked to see if the valves were leaking by putting my finger on the stem and pulling it out and it got good suction and also left oil where the springs are overnight and it didn't leak any.

So the only thing I don't know with confidence that it isn't failing is I found a parts diagram of the head that shows an o-ring under the valve guide (photo),  and I would think that the leak test I did would have ruled that out but I'm not sure. If I don't have to do a valve job that would be great but maybe that's the issue.

Hoping someone can tell me something stupid I'm missing or maybe someone has an idea of what's going on here, thanks!
Welcome aboard the forum
As Dennis and Bryan said, you have left out a lot of details concerning #abandoned mid way through doing the top end, I've rebuilt it " as to what was done to it to get a close diagnosis.
Stu
Honda Parts manager in the mid 1970s Nashua Honda
My current rides
1975 K5 Planet Blue my summer ride, it was a friend's bike I worked with at the Honda shop in 76, lots of fun to be on it again
1976 K6 Anteres Red rebuilding project, was originally my brother's that I set up from the crate, it'll breath again soon!
Project 750s, 1 K2, 4 K6, 1 K8, 1 F1, 1 F3
2008 GL1800 my daily ride and cross country runner

Prior bikes....
1972 Suzuki GT380 I had charge of it for a year in 1973 while my friend was deployed and learned to love street riding....
New CB450 K7 after my friend returned...
New CB750 K5 Planet Blue, demise by ex cousin in law at 9,000 miles...
New CB750 K6 Anteres Red, to replace the totaled K5, I sold this K6 at 45k in 1983, I had heavily modified it, many great memories on it and have missed it greatly.....
1983 GL1100A, 1999 GL1500 SE, 1999 GL1500A

Offline Red500

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2026, 05:43:40 PM »
Thanks for all the welcome! This forum helped me a ton in all my work on this bike.

Here’s some more info on how I got it, so the story goes the previous owner got it from the original owner who rode it forever but dropped it in the mud and I just let it sit cause he didn't wanna fix it, the previous owner bought it a few years ago, he said he put in new pistons, and that's about as far as he got but he had a full top end gasket and seal kit with it along with carb rebuild kit and some other new stuff. His reason for selling it was life just got busy with kids growing up and he was moving.

It was not in great condition at all when I got it, kept outdoors just under a carport and the coastal humid air was not kind to it that's for sure, I put some pictures down below. He sold it to me for 150$ and all the parts were there minus the exhaust and I figured for 150$ what the heck might as well give it a shot.

So when I got down to it, there were 2 broken head studs, and some abuse to the cylinder base surface on the case, some minor scratches and 2 gouges worst one being around a 64th ish deep so at least in my opinion not horrible but definitely not great. I replaced the head studs with a very large helping of heat, pb blaster, and patience, swapped them with the carbon steel ones on 4into1.com. The cylinder head surface was not brand new by any mean but not gouges or deep scratches just small scuffs really.
Also I didn't get the case milled even though I probably would've, didn't wanna spend the money and I figured it wasn't the head surface so it wasn't a huge deal, not sure if I'm wrong on that or not.

I peeked into the case and there was a lot of gunk, mixture of mud and old oil and metal so I ended up cracking the case open and doing a deep clean and checking gear train and crank shaft which were in surprisingly really good condition.

For the head I cleaned the rust off the cam by had with rust dissolve and a microfiber and got it looking really good again, the springs I got all the rust off with a bath and the valves I carefully cleaned excess carbon but didn't go crazy. I lapped the valves and cleaned the ports of dirt and carbon buildup. For the valves they moved very well, no hangups or mushrooming, the guides didn't a don't seem worn but I definitely don't have experience on my side to decide that.

For the cylinders they weren't bored and I didn't get them oversized, they were sealed all that time out in the elements and they had a little oil in them so it kept them in good condition, I gave them a hone and left it as is, there's not pitting or cracks that I can find. I also put new rings on, Honda oem

For the piston cylinder clearance it’s less that .03mm, my feeler only goes down that far so I don't know exactly.
I never checked the valve guide clearance so I don't have that but I can check it when I'm home tomorrow.

That's a basic rundown of how I got the bike and what I've done engine wise, hope that's helpful info!

« Last Edit: March 26, 2026, 05:51:18 PM by Red500 »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2026, 06:12:45 PM »
Thanks for all the welcome! This forum helped me a ton in all my work on this bike.

Here’s some more info on how I got it, so the story goes the previous owner got it from the original owner who rode it forever but dropped it in the mud and I just let it sit cause he didn't wanna fix it, the previous owner bought it a few years ago, he said he put in new pistons, and that's about as far as he got but he had a full top end gasket and seal kit with it along with carb rebuild kit and some other new stuff. His reason for selling it was life just got busy with kids growing up and he was moving.

It was not in great condition at all when I got it, kept outdoors just under a carport and the coastal humid air was not kind to it that's for sure, I put some pictures down below. He sold it to me for 150$ and all the parts were there minus the exhaust and I figured for 150$ what the heck might as well give it a shot.

So when I got down to it, there were 2 broken head studs, and some abuse to the cylinder base surface on the case, some minor scratches and 2 gouges worst one being around a 64th ish deep so at least in my opinion not horrible but definitely not great. I replaced the head studs with a very large helping of heat, pb blaster, and patience, swapped them with the carbon steel ones on 4into1.com. The cylinder head surface was not brand new by any mean but not gouges or deep scratches just small scuffs really.
Also I didn't get the case milled even though I probably would've, didn't wanna spend the money and I figured it wasn't the head surface so it wasn't a huge deal, not sure if I'm wrong on that or not.

I peeked into the case and there was a lot of gunk, mixture of mud and old oil and metal so I ended up cracking the case open and doing a deep clean and checking gear train and crank shaft which were in surprisingly really good condition.

For the head I cleaned the rust off the cam by had with rust dissolve and a microfiber and got it looking really good again, the springs I got all the rust off with a bath and the valves I carefully cleaned excess carbon but didn't go crazy. I lapped the valves and cleaned the ports of dirt and carbon buildup. For the valves they moved very well, no hangups or mushrooming, the guides didn't a don't seem worn but I definitely don't have experience on my side to decide that.

For the cylinders they weren't bored and I didn't get them oversized, they were sealed all that time out in the elements and they had a little oil in them so it kept them in good condition, I gave them a hone and left it as is, there's not pitting or cracks that I can find. I also put new rings on, Honda oem

For the piston cylinder clearance it’s less that .03mm, my feeler only goes down that far so I don't know exactly.
I never checked the valve guide clearance so I don't have that but I can check it when I'm home tomorrow.

That's a basic rundown of how I got the bike and what I've done engine wise, hope that's helpful info!



This engine will burn [lots] of oil if the piston-to-bore clearance is any more than 0.0015" (one and one-half thousandth of an inch). They were originally bored to have less than half that much, around 0.0004"-0.0006" clearance. As soon as this clearance exceeds 0.0012" the rings cannot hold back the oil anymore, and it starts collecting on top of the pistons because it cannot burn away fast enough. Then things get smoky.

Others above mentioned another real important thing: cracked valve guides. The tips of the guides can become cracked during reassembly if the rockers are not held up while the top cover is being installed and then the bolts are tightened: they will tighten down OK because they crack the valve guides by pushing the valve stems out of the way(!). This is quite common when someone isn't careful to watch for it.

So, it looks like you need at least new oversized pistons and rings and a proper bore job, for starters. Tell your machinist that you want 0.0004" piston clearance (that's 4 ten thousandth of an inch) and if he balks at it, find another machine shop. Otherwise it WILL burn oil on reassembly, from Day One.

Also: while they are working on the cylinders, tell them you want the top of the cylinders milled off 0.010" (ten thousandths of an inch). This is necessary because all modern head gaskets are now that much thicker than OEM ones were, which lets the 2 oil passages through the head gasket leak big time, making a very oily engine. Contact me with your address (PM me) for a pair of thicker O-rings that replace the too-thin ones that come in gasket sets today: there's no charge, and it can save your rebuild from being an oily failure.

While that head is off: remove the valves from the head and look very closely at the tops of the valve guides: see if they are cracked. They may be: if so, then check to make sure the valve stems are straight, because if they cracked a guide, they probably won't be straight anymore. Then you'll have to replace the guides and do a full valve job, too.

See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline scottly

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2026, 06:55:23 PM »
So only cylinder 2 and 3 appear to have problems? Your clearance of less than .03mm (.00118") should be OK, but a feeler gauge isn't the best way to check this. ;) The top piston ring is for compression, the second is an oil scraper, and the third does most of the oil control. You can have good compression but poor oil control if there is an issue with the 2nd or more commonly 3rd ring.
If oil is coming from the intake guides, it will be worse when coasting in gear with the throttle closed, due to the high vacuum in the intake port, and the smoke will increase a bunch when the throttle is opened up, burning the oil that's accumulated in the combustion chamber. If the exhaust guides are leaking, the oil getting blown into the hot exhaust burns and smokes, but the oil doesn't burn in the chamber like with intake guides or rings. Is there evidence of oil burning in the chambers, like deposits on the spark plugs?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline scottly

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2026, 08:11:51 PM »

So when I got down to it, there were 2 broken head studs, .... I replaced the head studs with a very large helping of heat, pb blaster, and patience, swapped them with the carbon steel ones on 4into1.com.
Where were the 2 studs located? Near the 2 and 3 cylinders?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2026, 08:50:15 PM »
So only cylinder 2 and 3 appear to have problems? Your clearance of less than .03mm (.00118") should be OK, but a feeler gauge isn't the best way to check this. ;) The top piston ring is for compression, the second is an oil scraper, and the third does most of the oil control. You can have good compression but poor oil control if there is an issue with the 2nd or more commonly 3rd ring.
If oil is coming from the intake guides, it will be worse when coasting in gear with the throttle closed, due to the high vacuum in the intake port, and the smoke will increase a bunch when the throttle is opened up, burning the oil that's accumulated in the combustion chamber. If the exhaust guides are leaking, the oil getting blown into the hot exhaust burns and smokes, but the oil doesn't burn in the chamber like with intake guides or rings. Is there evidence of oil burning in the chambers, like deposits on the spark plugs?
Another clue exhaust guides/seals are NG is a lot of smoking on cold start.
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Offline bryanj

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2026, 12:23:28 AM »
One other possibility for leakin, but not burning, oil is the rubber pucks between head and valve cover, aparently there was a batch of undersize ones a few years back
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Red500

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2026, 06:59:05 AM »



[/quote]

This engine will burn [lots] of oil if the piston-to-bore clearance is any more than 0.0015" (one and one-half thousandth of an inch). They were originally bored to have less than half that much, around 0.0004"-0.0006" clearance. As soon as this clearance exceeds 0.0012" the rings cannot hold back the oil anymore, and it starts collecting on top of the pistons because it cannot burn away fast enough. Then things get smoky.

Others above mentioned another real important thing: cracked valve guides. The tips of the guides can become cracked during reassembly if the rockers are not held up while the top cover is being installed and then the bolts are tightened: they will tighten down OK because they crack the valve guides by pushing the valve stems out of the way(!). This is quite common when someone isn't careful to watch for it.

So, it looks like you need at least new oversized pistons and rings and a proper bore job, for starters. Tell your machinist that you want 0.0004" piston clearance (that's 4 ten thousandth of an inch) and if he balks at it, find another machine shop. Otherwise it WILL burn oil on reassembly, from Day One.

Also: while they are working on the cylinders, tell them you want the top of the cylinders milled off 0.010" (ten thousandths of an inch). This is necessary because all modern head gaskets are now that much thicker than OEM ones were, which lets the 2 oil passages through the head gasket leak big time, making a very oily engine. Contact me with your address (PM me) for a pair of thicker O-rings that replace the too-thin ones that come in gasket sets today: there's no charge, and it can save your rebuild from being an oily failure.

While that head is off: remove the valves from the head and look very closely at the tops of the valve guides: see if they are cracked. They may be: if so, then check to make sure the valve stems are straight, because if they cracked a guide, they probably won't be straight anymore. Then you'll have to replace the guides and do a full valve job, too.


[/quote]

What’s the correct tool to mesure the clearance? I figured the feeler gauge wasn’t it but I’m a carpenter by trade so my fine measuring tools are city blocks in comparison to a machinists.

I’ll have to give the entire valve train a very close look and see if I can find anything,

Thanks for all that info, is there a machine shop you guys recommend, I’ve got a buddy that works on cars and he said he’s had a bad experience with my local shop and that I should ship it off to someone who specializes on vintage engines.

Also thanks for that offer on the prints I’ll definitely pm you here in a bit!


One other possibility for leakin, but not burning, oil is the rubber pucks between head and valve cover, aparently there was a batch of undersize ones a few years back

That’s interesting, the ones I got with the kit seem to fit fine but worth taking a closer look.


So when I got down to it, there were 2 broken head studs, .... I replaced the head studs with a very large helping of heat, pb blaster, and patience, swapped them with the carbon steel ones on 4into1.com.
Where were the 2 studs located? Near the 2 and 3 cylinders?

They were C4 outside front and C2 intake side and outside of that cylinder if that makes sense

So only cylinder 2 and 3 appear to have problems? Your clearance of less than .03mm (.00118") should be OK, but a feeler gauge isn't the best way to check this. ;) The top piston ring is for compression, the second is an oil scraper, and the third does most of the oil control. You can have good compression but poor oil control if there is an issue with the 2nd or more commonly 3rd ring.
If oil is coming from the intake guides, it will be worse when coasting in gear with the throttle closed, due to the high vacuum in the intake port, and the smoke will increase a bunch when the throttle is opened up, burning the oil that's accumulated in the combustion chamber. If the exhaust guides are leaking, the oil getting blown into the hot exhaust burns and smokes, but the oil doesn't burn in the chamber like with intake guides or rings. Is there evidence of oil burning in the chambers, like deposits on the spark plugs?

Interesting you say that, I noticed that at idle is smoked a ton but when I give it some gas it goes down significantly to none or almost none. Could be intake valve leak.
Another thing, I’ve got the 3 piece oil control rings on all the pistons, from my understanding those are bidirectional cause I could t find anything marking on them indicating orientation direction.

It definitely seemed like there was oil burning in the chamber of C2 and C3 but I also had oil in the exhaust, c3 plug just had carbon build up but c2 plug had oil on it for sure.


[/u]]

Offline Stev-o

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2026, 08:31:27 AM »
When you installed the head cover, did you use the "rubber band trick"?  If no, as HM mentioned, you may have bent the valves.

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Offline MauiK3

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2026, 09:56:35 AM »
Might want to get Hondaman's book about the half liter bikes.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil consumption issue
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2026, 12:54:25 PM »
Quote
Another thing, I’ve got the 3 piece oil control rings on all the pistons, from my understanding those are bidirectional cause I could t find anything marking on them indicating orientation direction.
Quote
Yep, they are bidirectional: just the upper 2 rings have a 'top' and 'bottom'.
:)
That large amount of oil suggests it is coming form the guide(s), as normally the piston rings won't let that much past them. A clue might be the carbon pattern on the top(s) of the piston(s): if it is ring blowby there would be [or have been at disassembly?] clean edges around the tops of the pistons where the blowby was cleaning them off. If it has just been apart and cleaned, that pattern might be gone now?
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).