Topic: I "lost it" today with a tailgater

[cben750f0]

dont feel bad TC, i have given bikes up for the moment, while i am living in Auckland NZ, the ppl here cant drive at all... its soo dangerous that  i have been here a little under 6 months and have been hospitalised with a smashed hand and munted knee and shin, b/c a person stopped in the middle of a green traffic light....

they are everywhere, and its kinda hard not to get a little peeved at some time...

peace

[mennedy]

There is a lot of emotional currency spent by us on these aggressive drivers. The adrenaline is identifiable in each reply to this thread. They are aggressive and irrational so there is no winning here. There is escape or lose. I have adopted an attitude that "It is not about them; it is about me."

If you make it about them, you'll drive yourself over the edge. There are too many of them, you will never see them again (well, maybe for a bit at the next light) and if you could confront them, you would just embarrass yourself. After they are gone, all that is left is you and how you feel. Like I said, I make it all about me and I have better ways to spend my emotional currency than on one of these people. 

The big thing that is starting to happen in Calgary is cutting people off. I don't mean just pulling in front of them. I mean coming at your front fender run you off the road kind of cutting off. You have to read the traffic ahead and way behind (you'll see them coming).

Has anyone noticed how many of these aggressive drivers now are young girls and women? I'd say that it is approaching 50%. I'd also say that 50% of these drivers are in newer pick up trucks and most of the rest are in big $ SUV's. I haven't been cut off/tailgated by a Priuus, Optima, Corolla, etc. lately.

By the way, I have a heavy foot and I am usually the one looking to get by in the passing lane. I wait and if they won't pull over, I pass on the right when I get the chance. Again, it is about me, not about them. 

[dusterdude]

ok,a lesson on proper lane management.when on a 4 lane highway,the right lane is the slow lane and the left lane is the fast lane.it doesnt matter how slow one drives in the right lane,you do not "make" someone in the right lane mover over so you can pass,all passing is on the left.now,on a 6 lane highway,the two right lanes are the slow lanes and the left lane is the only fast lane,the two slow lanes are just like the above slow lane.if i happen to be in one of the slow lanes,i dont move over for anybody,i make them go around.but i do hate it when someone is in the fast lane goin 5 mph over the speed limit and hemming me up and wont move over when i flash them.you guys will also notice,on your newer model cars the way the high beam stalk moves back and flashes the highbeam light,thats called flash to pass and its there for a reason.ok,i shot my was im done for the day.

[jdigga]

Hmm, according to Tom and Ray on Car Talk, the worst drivers drive Jettas.

http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/jettadrivers/letters.html

[merc2dogs]

So Ken, how do you know nobody got hurt?  Did you stop and check?

Many, if not all, states have regulations regarding passing on the left.  Usually it is stated along the lines of "keep right, except to pass".

 Of course, if I'd have wanted him hurt I'd have stopped and hurt him.

 The slower traffic keep right rule applies to multilane roads to prevent slow traffic truck/motor homes etc from blocking traffic, it does not mean pull onto the shoulder to allow someone to pass. if it is a passing zone YOU are the stand-on vessel and are supposed to maintain course, the overtaking vehicle is the one that is obligated to change lanes, normally taking the left lane which is why it is commonly known as the PASSING lane

 If someone exhibits questionable behavior as described in my previous post (IE: refusing to pass when lanes for doing so are available, and when I have provided them with multiple opportunities to do so, and have taken steps to make it easy for them to do so, as in changing lanes speeding up slowing down etc, and they still remain on my tail, that is questionable behavior to me) I am under no obligation to see if their motives are pure. if I am already in the right lane I do NOT have to pull over to allow any vehicle other than fire/police/ambulance to pass.

  that being said, if I'm driving down the highway and someone passes me I will normally shift to the right so they have more room to get past me, I will not shift over far enough to get onto the shoulder, but I will make room.

ken.

[neil young]

It's against the law to use a mobile phone while driving in the UK. It dosn't stop the idiots though Neil.

Sam.

i wish that was the case here in Toronto.everybody seems to need to talk to somebody for some reason while driving these days.young people who should be aware of there surroundings when they first get there licence are giving me the finger after they cut me off and i let them know it.it's almost kick boxing time in Toronto

[kslrr]

Mennedy, that is because today's young women are more concerned with getting to their destination.  They are thinking so far ahead about what they need to get done that they are not thinking about what they are doing at the moment.

[Bob Wessner]

Thanks to Steve Jobs, they can now browse the Internet on their IPhone as well. Don't you just love technology.

[neil young]

what i have noticed lately is that the young kids are text messaging while driving.now thats going to cause a problem at some point in time

[nickjtc]

Looking at this from a 'driver educational viewpoint'....there is far too much emotional energy wasted on this kind of scenario. When we get all worked up about another persons bad habits, or attitude when driving who wins? We certainly don't.

All we can do is drive (or ride) defensively and let the other person do their thing. When I am driving at the speed limit all I think about is the amount of gas that person is wasting by roaring by me. But we all need to be cognizant of the reality that in many jurisdictions you must let following vehicles pass if there are more than 5 of them behind you, even if you are doing the legal limit for that stretch of road.

[rphilli550]

today i was driving home from work in the left lane...i came up to pass a man in a very nice lexus, who, incidentally did not see me and began merging over into my lane to make a left hand turn up the road a bit...by the time he began into my lane, i was already right next to him so im not sure how on earth he didnt see me. i just watched him come closer and closer and closer until i decided about that time to lay on my horn. he swerved back into his lane and as i passed him, i threw my hand up in the air as if to say "get a freakin clue". he never even looked at me...he just kept staring blankly ahead until i passed him and then he swerved over into my lane behind me and made his turn. F'ing douchebag...i should've let him hit me in my 1986 VW Golf

[333]

I'm coming home after gassing up my little CB125S when a car approaches WAY TOO close for comfort.  I had room, so I pulled over only to find out it was a COP!!!  He went by and over the next hill where I was going to turn anyway, he was there and out of his car waving me over.  I was pissed.  I almost couldn't get my helmet off fast enough before I was giving him a hard time.  He backed off and responded that he was just trying to read my tag.  I told him to get some glasses.

Here in Virginia, as with other states, it is illegal to flash ones headlights.  But the problem as I see it is the likelyhood of someone being a d!ck.  Whether it's a cop ticketing you for flashing your headlights, or  an a$$ doing the speed limit in the left lane because it is the speed limit.  And there is no law stopping him, but if you react too harshly, you are immediately labeled an aggressive driver.  A middle can end you up in jail!!!

Even cellphone use gets a bad rap sometimes.  Follow me on this one before you disagree.  First, it is only human nature to only remember  the negative.  We've all experienced this at parties where you mention that you ride a M/C and all someone can recall is the a$$ that goes by traffic on the side of the road at 90MPH when all traffic is stopped, or the friend or relative that was maimed or killed on a bike, therefore all bikers are bad!!!  So, when we are jammed in traffic by someone on a cellphone, we blame the cellphone.  Believe me, if the accident rate increased even half the rate of cellphone ownership, it would have been outlawed a helluva lot quicker nationwide, not just one county or state trickling in.  And some of us CAN use a cell phone without causing a traffic problem.  I firmly believe that there is no difference from having an intense conversation on a cellphone and having one with someone sitting next to you in the car.  It's a matter of paying attention to driving.  There was a Volkswagen commercial a few months ago where 2 guy were talking.  The driver was wondering why some girl didn't like him or something like that and the passenger was explaining that she might if he didn't say "like"every other word, when they get t-boned at an intersection.  No cellphone, but definitely no paying attention.

Now I just have to get down from my soap box.

[edbikerii]

Cellphones are very different because usually the passenger is watching the road as well as the driver.  He'll know when to shut up, and can even help point out potential problems.  The person on the other end of a cell phone just gets annoyed that you are not paying enough attention.

[burmashave]

Here's my solution. I call it Burmashave's Law, just like they named "Megan's Law." First, we eliminate all infractions on the books that have anything to do with driver courtesy or driver paying attention. That includes using your turn signal (whether to turn or to change lanes); tailgating; passing on the left; using your cell phone while driving; eating while driving; doing your eye liner while driving at 75MPH in tight bumper-to-bumper in the passing lane during rush hour; reading the newspaper while doing the same; driving with windshield wipers on and headlights off (New York's new law to save the planet); etc., etc.

We replace all the above with the "Driving Like and Idiot" infraction. Driving Like an Idiot would be enforceable at the officer's discretion. He would say, "You were driving like an idiot" and hand the violator the ticket. If the violator wished to fight this, he would need to go to traffic court where the judge would decide if he had been driving like an idiot. Drivers would then need to try to not drive like idiots.

Alternately, we can continue down the path of creating ever more laws (driving while using cell phone, etc.) that are neither obeyed nor enforced.

Seriously, many areas in the US are cursed with horrible drivers. Part of this is courtesy, but it seems to me that a greater part is that in the US, most drivers view driving as something that happens in the car, as opposed to something that one does in the car.

In my head I know that I should live and let live; however, I love to "educate" less fortunate drivers than I. One of my favorite moves is what I call the "brushback." I feel that God gave each of us exactly one lane. If you can't keep it in one lane, you shouldn't be driving that vehicle or driving it that fast. I just try to educate.

On the highway, coming up on someone over the dotted line, I come up close in the next lane. Just as the rear of my car is crossing the front of hers/his I drift just a bit over, which puts my rear in front of her/him. It works as a wake up call because the other driver doesn't see it as an aggressive move. Properly done it works every time. I drive a little Acura, but I have been successful against tractor trailers (many times) SUV's (even more times), and on occasion, city buses. I take a glance in the rear view, and lo and behold, the driver has managed to find her/his own lane.

[jdigga]

I like the "DLI" offense.   Though it would require that the officer has a similar modicum of common sense.

I also use a brushback type maneuver often, but I find that they quickly move back to the center of their lane as soon as they see me out their driver's side window.  Perhaps I'm brushing too close. 

[burmashave]

I like the "DLI" offense.   Though it would require that the officer has a similar modicum of common sense.

I also use a brushback type maneuver often, but I find that they quickly move back to the center of their lane as soon as they see me out their driver's side window.  Perhaps I'm brushing too close. 

Mebbe not, but the way I do it, I'm not ever close enough to them for them to hit me, but it seems to the driver that he was that close to me. I think that's why it works for me against trucks and buses. Here are some other choice moves:

The Parting of the Lanes
Ever need to get into a lane and no one will let you? This move usually works well for me. Instead of trying to fight your way in, start looking in your glovebox for something, look in the back seat, look on the floor of the passenger seat -- above all -- make sure your head and body are moving all about. At the same time, let your car drift randomly within the lane, and start to drift toward the lane you want to get into. People tend to get a bit worried and give you room, even in places where people aren't generally paying attention to what's going on.

Maintenance of Right of Way
I spent years in the Boston area, where right of way is pretty much a sport, especially in rotaries (roundabouts). Drivers coming into the rotary are supposed to yield to drivers in the rotary; however, in places like Boston, drivers entering the rotary feel it is their patriotic duty to cut off anyone in the rotary. The problem is that someone entering can almost always box out someone in the rotary because the one entering has a better position.

Soooooo, what do ya do when you see someone creeping out? You accelerate, and don't go for the gap. Accelerate and aim directly for the driver's door. The driver takes one last look in your direction, craps his/her pants, and stops. It sounds more dangerous than it is. If he pulls out (this only happened to me once), you follow in behind. I never accelerate to where I couldn't stop if needed. Plus, as you are accelerating, you create a gap behind you should you need to slow down.

The above move also works for cars slowly pulling out from the right in front of you. It can also be used against pedestrians in the city. I will stop dead for peds in a crosswalk, but I feel that some pedestrians could use education about the benefits of using the crosswalk. If you start to go around jaywalkers, they will continue toward you. If you accelerate and aim toward the curb, they hop back. ;-)

Preventing the Cut In
Ever merge politely ahead of a construction zone/lane drop, etc., only to have someone go zooming up to cut the line? People tend to try to prevent this by keeping close to the car ahead, but I think the key is to edge as much as possible in the direction of the car/truck trying to cut in. First, I edge out so that my bumper is outside the bumper ahead of me, giving the cutter no edge to cut in. If the person persists in trying to force me over, I cut in his/her direction as he/she is trying to do the same to me.

Unfortunately, none of these work on a bike. Believe it or don't, I am an extremely courteous driver; I just appreciate the same from others.

[333]

I like the "DLI" offense.   Though it would require that the officer has a similar modicum of common sense. 

Yea, like that'll happen.  I don't want to p!ss off any cops that may belong to this forum, but there seems to me that there is a better chance of idiocity in that profession.

And then in reading some examples of idiocity, I am reminded of a sighting.  We've all heard of people shaving behind the wheel, some of us may have done it.  But the guy I saw was using a straight razor and a cup of lather!!!!  Flinging the scrapings out the drivers window!!!

And yes, I do believe that I've coined a new word.  At least spellcheck doesn't recognize it.  Idiocity!

[333]

Burma, I don't possibly see how that rotary trick works with a "little Acura".  I'm thinking full size pickup or bigger.

And that accellerating for peds not in a crosswalk works a lot better when you have a loud car or bike-  big V-8,hedders/glasspacks or full liter 4cyl w/ a SuperTrapp.  That ped will crap his pants AND step back!!

[jdigga]

Burma you should teach a course!

[bill440cars]

        What about being in the left lane (on the interstate) coming upon slightly slower traffic in the right lane and have some idiot come flying up behind me, jump over in the right lane and leap in front of me (barely). Sometimes I swear I can see the front end of my minivan shorten itself to keep from getting hit. On the tailgater thing (as far as one who just drives a bit too close for comfort), my wife has had the habit of gradually slowing down, without touching the brake and it kinda slips up on them. My concern is that one of these days, she's gonna get hit. Oh well, I do most of the driving anyway.

                                   Later on, Bill      

[burmashave]

Works [the rotary move] every time. During the years I lived in the Boston area, it failed me exactly once. :-) I can even remember where it was and that it was a white car with a male driver that beat me.

Like the brushback move, it's not the size, it's how you pull it off. And yes, with peds, I forgot to mention that I down shift as I accelerate toward them. Not the same attention getting effect as yours, 333, but it works.

On the other hand, when I was moving to Boston, I had an old Chevy 3/4 with 4" lift, 350cid, 4 bbl carb, loud dual exhausts, and best of all, a heavy solid steel brush bar that had been bent and that had lost most of its original chrome. In a town like Boston, that got me respect, but no parking places.  ;-)

So back to tailgaters, I really should heed the advice here, but in town, I tend to stop just a bit short at stoplights and watch their front ends dive behind me. On the highway, I sometimes down shift and watch for the same. I also don't mind driving the speed limit when someone is hot on my tail. I don't care how late I am for something, I somehow have all the time in the world when someone cannot give me space. I find this strangely relaxing.

If someone is moving too slowly in the passing lane, I tend to come up on them and then drop back about 2 car lengths. I repeat this a couple of times and then come up with the high beams, but after I flash them, I drop back again. I think of the dropping back as a polite way of saying that I want to get around.

The most annoying thing about it is that I do drive very aggressively, but I do it defensively. Getting close to the car ahead doesn't get a person there a second earlier. Tailgating is simply pointless and dangerous.

[333]

Seems to me that old Chevy could make a parking place or two.

[tsp37]

Gallagher had a bit in which he advocated tickets for driving like an idiot.  It worked like this: if you saw someone driving like an idiot, you shot his car with a suction cup tipped dart with a flag that said "Idiot".  After a car collected ten flags, a cop could cite the driver for driving like an idiot.

Having said that, I have discovered that other drivers bother me a lot less if I simply drive at the speed limit.  That makes me the jerk that everyone has to contend with.  I also believe that rural counties and small towns have more polite drivers although these still have the occasional aggressive young buck in a pick up truck.

I just moved back to a slow moving county and I have a commute to kill for - 10 miles through woods and farms and some nice curves for two wheels.  I cannot drive through Nashville (the nearby big town) without wetting on myself.  In the month that I have been here, I have yet to have an incident with an idiot driver.

[333]

Lucky you.  I live in a suburb of Washington D.C, where it was recently reported that we made it into the top 5 cities with the rudest drivers.

[burmashave]

What were the other 5?