Topic: Aluminum valve spring retainers

[MRieck]

Are you talking,
 retainers(valve locks)
 collars and locks,
 or, collars, locks, & springs... for that price?

Just the retainers. No keepers, no springs.

[754]

I thought we were talking keepers or locks!!

What I have in the set is alum collars and locks, the locks being longer than stock.

At 20$ per collar they would be easy to make.

Are any of the top collars that are sold now for CB 750 drilled radially?

[MRieck]

I thought we were talking keepers or locks!!

What I have in the set is alum collars and locks, the locks being longer than stock.

At 20$ per collar they would be easy to make.

Are any of the top collars that are sold now for CB 750 drilled radially?

Collars =retainers. Locks=keepers Just want to make sure we are on the same page. I'm sure your locks (keepers) also have a greater angle too though the earlier CB750 pieces have a lot of angle and are pretty stout. The only radially drilled retainers I've seen are those Yosh steel ones I described earlier. Huge money but they are works of art. They showed a set in a very recent Performance Bikes

[754]

So the aluminum keepers, have you ever run into them??

I would maybe run them on something that comes apart after a few hrs, but not for long term use.

radial drilled collars came out a while back for American Iron, looks like a good way to carve out a bit of weight.

[kayaker43]

I wouldn't think aluminum keepers would ever hold up, they're highly stressed around the groove area in the valve stem.

Drilling the retainers didn't sound like a good idea at first, but radial drilling makes more sense and I can see why that would be more expensive.

[754]

When looking at the end they are drilled 1/2 way between the keeper bore and outer edge.. 8 or 10 holes.

[MRieck]

So the aluminum keepers, have you ever run into them??

I would maybe run them on something that comes apart after a few hrs, but not for long term use.

radial drilled collars came out a while back for American Iron, looks like a good way to carve out a bit of weight.

No...I've never seen aluminum keepers and I'd be scared to use them. I've heard of Ti keepers though I haven't used them myself. The keepers don't weigh that much (except for old 2 valve stuff) BUT every bit helps. Modern keepers used with 4mm stems weigh nothing(and are a bit of a pain to install). The radially drilled stuff I've seen is steel. Those Yosh steel retainers have 10 holes ( I've got to get a pic of those on here).

[754]

I just came from the S&S Cycle site,

They are running 8 holes but near the outer edge, and claim lighter & MORE oil to the springs.. and they said they had patent on it!

 So anyone using it may be paying a royalty thus increasing cost.

However from a machining standpoint on a CNC lathe with live tooling the drilling should take at most 2 min per collar (likely less), price increase of 2-5$ per collar max. To drill manually would likely cost more.

 I suppose not many on here is likely familiar with S&S Cycle as they only make stuff for V-Twins.. but if you have a few minutes search their info on Valve-spring setup.. it is simply amazing and on PDF files.. They have similar for all their stuff and I use it a lot when boring out cases for big barrels, etc.

 The reason I am bringing it up is that I would like to find similar for Honda 4 valvespring setup.. if it does not exist we could perhaps put it together??

 I should mention that Sifton I think used to make collars with different depths of keeper location from aluminum, then anodized different colors.. that way it was easier to tailor your spring pack and pressure.. they were not for 4 cyl though.

 An interesting thing I heard of from a customer that works on really fast boats, they are using oil jets to cool valve springs.. heat is the real enemy of springs in WFO applications. He had a single engine Eliminator that ran 123mph on 1 engine!!

[Big Jay]

http://cbrzone.com/cams.html

It appears that APE outfit is $115.00 for Titanium Retainers.  They must be great folks.

Jay

[MRieck]

http://cbrzone.com/cams.html

It appears that APE outfit is $115.00 for Titanium Retainers.  They must be great folks.

Jay

Jay,
                   I purchased TVSRH750   149.95 + 20.00 S/H on 1/16/08 Invoice # 81638. APE are good folks but somebody is off somewhere (unless the price has dropped about 30% since January). If so I stand corrected. 149.00 is still a good price though the 20.00 S/H  UPS Ground on 8 Ti retainers is stiff IMO. I would like to add that APE has many sets in stock so forget the "in stock" stuff on the website.

[754]

That does sound like a good price..

 And you price on the CB750 cams is a killer price as well..

[MRieck]

That does sound like a good price..

 And you price on the CB750 cams is a killer price as well..

Keep in mind there is a disclaimer about prices and that web page is kinda old......................

[754]

Maybe he is offering us a deal!

Of course nobody has to buy..

[Big Jay]

http://cbrzone.com/cams.html

It appears that APE outfit is $115.00 for Titanium Retainers.  They must be great folks.

Jay

Jay,
                   I purchased TVSRH750   149.95 + 20.00 S/H on 1/16/08 Invoice # 81638. APE are good folks but somebody is off somewhere (unless the price has dropped about 30% since January). If so I stand corrected. 149.00 is still a good price though the 20.00 S/H  UPS Ground on 8 Ti retainers is stiff IMO. I would like to add that APE has many sets in stock so forget the "in stock" stuff on the website.

Yes the website is wrong, hence the    We were discontinuing them, but decided not to and had to give them a current price.

Shoot me an E-mail jay@aperaceparts.com

[KB02]

So, before this post gets too old, I do have one question. On a recent call to Megacyclecams, they suggested adding a set of their springs (part #30-0307 - K.P.M. valve prings) with any cam order - esspecially any higher lift cams. They said those springs are designed to be used with the stock Retainers and keepers.

How do you all feel about that?

Now, I'm building a street machine, not a race bike, so a gram of weight savings here and there are not really a concern to me, but I wouldn't want the keepers to pull through and wreck the engine that I am taking so long to build (heh - what Mike can probably do in a weekend will take me, probably, over a year... then I've got to get to work on the rest of the bike )

Thoughts? Feelings? Personal grudges you want to vent off about in frustration with a simular situation?

[turboguzzi]

hei kb

I am running a megacycle cam on a 500 with kpm springs and stock collars, no problems up to 12,500. I did remove some weight from the rockers in non critical areas though.

Back to the original question, My Guzzi Le-Mans III runs on it's original ally keepers with no problems whatsoever after 80K miles.

TG