Topic: Phaedrus: CB750 RestoMod - Update: 09/23/21 w/ new video

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

IF I think I'm done there is the spare frame and all the take offs to build another bike with. Gives us older guys something to do besides play on the computer 

Thinking about reversing the polarity in his bath, that would probably contaminate his chrome solution unless they have a separate bath just for that purpose. there should also be other layers underneath like copper and nickle if done properly that would come off too. Ronnie told me they use a 7 layer process. Wow, not sure what the other 4 are?

[Ichiban 4]

Ron..Jerry..
From my metallurgical experience..the process is called electro-stripping (we used it to reduce internal clearences on metal dental appliances to get a better fit)..but I remember from my days working in chrome shop decades ago..that the principle is the same.  Essentially have to have a dedicated tank for stripping only (as you mentioned..it gets filled with all sorts of contaminates/trash afterwards.  Then..what to do with the residue?). 

All you need essentially..is an electrolyte bath (in dentistry we used glacial acetic acid.  In chrome shop either phosphoric or muriatic acid.  All pretty nasty stuff..if handled carelessly) a cathode (in this case..the piece you're wanting to strip) and anode (yes..the polarity has to be reversed..so it strips away..rather than builds up) . Doesn't make much difference what the anode is made of..as long as it's electrically conductive..as it's basically a trash collector. But better if it's not too subject to corrosion..so lasts longer.  We used stainless steel plate..or chrome shop sometimes old spent anodes from plating tanks.

BTW: When the chrome shops were all basically conscientious as Browns seems to be..we stripped everything before plating..lightly..to get a good deposition of the plating material.

The entire plating/stripping technology is quite straight-forward once you do it a bit.  The main drawback nowadays seems to be all the EPA..other environmental restrictions (rightly so..I feel) on the chemicals and waste products that the process involves.  Fascinating stuff..I think..

Al / Ichi

[MCRider]

Al: There were some threads on how plating shops would not strip old chrome. Sounds like you would need an extra tank set up for stripping. Addtl overhead, giving the nod to a big operation like Brown's. Ronnie seemed to take the request in stride. I didn't ask him if there was an extra charge. Guess we'll find out. I don't care, but for edification, I might call them tomorrow and see.

[Ichiban 4]

Ron: You're right..as was trying to describe..it requires a separate/dedicated tank..electrolyte..et al.  Used to empty those things after a month or two of stripping..and they're filled with black deposit/sludge actually from the process.  Guess one could try to separate out the respective metals..but am guessing it would cost more to do that than what it's worth.  Nowadays EPA won't allow you to just dump it in trash.  Has to be disposed of as hazardous waste..etc.

I haven't sent stuff to Brown's myself..but from reading their web pages..and seeing comments here on threads..etc..seems to me that they are quite conscientious..a bit "old school"..which feel is really necessary to do good chrome/plating work.  They're hard to find nowadays..seems to me..as few want to go through all the extra stuff with EPA regs.  That's why even though they may seem expensive to some..considering what they have to do to stay in business..deliver good products..feel it's worth supporting them whenever possible.

BTW: We have a few chrome shops here in Denver area..but the quality control is really lacking..and they only use a two-step process (nickel then chrome).  Final product looks similar to factory Honda plating..which we all know is not the best looking.  But good enough for some of us who just want our bikes to look similar to OEM stuff.

Stay warm Bro.  It's not quite as cold here..as there..but pretty close to it.  Hope your workshop is now reasonable to work in..in this weather..

Al

[MCRider]

Al:
Brown's still sells the 7 step process as their "signature" process. Gotta have that thick luscious chrome.

FYI: stripping the old chrome is no extra charge.

My heaters can easily raise the shop temp about 30-35deg F. But with a start point of -10, doesn't help much. Rain and 40° coming on Sat. In the meantime I'm getting a head start on my tax return.

Ron.

[CBJoe]

I was wondering about that (IR Heaters vs -10F).....As I'm thinking of putting these types into my detached garage next fall, this is good info.  In super cold, I would guess I would have to supplement with additional heating source (kerosene most likely as that is what I have now). 

Need to figure out how much it will be to have power company run a separate line to garage.  Only have 100 amp service to house, so not really enough for the heaters.  Only have 2 20A circuits out there now fed from main breaker in house.

Looking forward to spring and seeing (hearing) Phaedrus in person

Cheers, Joe

[MCRider]

I was wondering about that (IR Heaters vs -10F).....As I'm thinking of putting these types into my detached garage next fall, this is good info.  In super cold, I would guess I would have to supplement with additional heating source (kerosene most likely as that is what I have now). 

Need to figure out how much it will be to have power company run a separate line to garage.  Only have 100 amp service to house, so not really enough for the heaters.  Only have 2 20A circuits out there now fed from main breaker in house.

Looking forward to spring and seeing (hearing) Phaedrus in person

Cheers, Joe

Had I really wanted to work in the shop, it would have been OK with a head start, and I do use a 1500W fan forced heater to help out, at the extreme, which isn't much. I was working on my snowblower in the shop with a 4ft door wide open, but under a 3000W IF tube, and it was fine.

I have a 200A service total. I had 60A dedicated to the Garage  (2 bay) and shop (1 bay). 1 20A breaker can support a 4000W heater. The other 20A would be for lights, TV etc.

I'm going backwards, having removed some pieces for Brown's and the clocks for Marcel to work on. Should be back together by Spring no prob.

[Tintop]

Well the good news is it's like 2 steps forward, and only one step back Ron.  Brown's seems to give you fairly quick turn around, so things should be moving forward again soon.  Guess biggest holdup will be waiting for the clocks to come back.

I've got 200A to the house, with 100A going to it's own panel in the shop/garage.  Couple of wall sockets on 20A breakers for things like the buffer / grinder / drill press, lights on 15A breaker, compressor hardwired to 240/20A, and a 240/20A socket for a heater currently, but could handle a welder if need be.  Found a source for IR heaters, so just waiting for the electrician to find time.

[MCRider]

Well the good news is it's like 2 steps forward, and only one step back Ron.  Brown's seems to give you fairly quick turn around, so things should be moving forward again soon.  Guess biggest holdup will be waiting for the clocks to come back.

I've got 200A to the house, with 100A going to it's own panel in the shop/garage.  Couple of wall sockets on 20A breakers for things like the buffer / grinder / drill press, lights on 15A breaker, compressor hardwired to 240/20A, and a 240/20A socket for a heater currently, but could handle a welder if need be.  Found a source for IR heaters, so just waiting for the electrician to find time.

Yes, Brown's is amazingly quick. I suspect Marcel will be too. In a pinch, I can still run it up and down the street with the missing parts, and a dummy spare tach.

I really suggest getting a variable control for the heaters. Otherwise they will be full on/full off. A thermostat won't work as they don't heat the air. You'll either be baked chicken or chicken salad.

[Tintop]

A variable control is part of the plan. 

[MCRider]

A variable control is part of the plan.

You'll love it/them. Can't wait for Sunday Shop Time.

[MCRider]

After surviving the "polar vortex" of 2014, the weather was nice enough to push the various bikes out onto the apron and do some pre-spring cleaning. This went well, including replacing some burned out ceiling lights, and everything went back in tighter then it came out, giving more room to navigate around Phaedrus.

Began pulling parts for brown's. The most recent addition to the list are the rear shook springs. The S&W Shock bodies were already chrome. The black springs were OK, but chrome will top the look off. Pulled the instruments to send to Marcels to be done right.

No Pics.

Got an invite from VJMC to attend the annual National Rally. This year to be held in Spring Mill State Park, about 2.5 hours from here. I emailed the event coordinator. The Bike Show this year will include a "custom" class, right down my ally. So I'm stoked to get ready for this. A long weekend with the wife and classic bike heads. Last weekend in June/  Follow this shakedown with an entry in the US GP Classic Bike Show in Indpls. in August. 

[MCRider]

I got the instruments off and mailed to Marcel in the Netherlands. After Ed (Phoenix) the Spectator pointed out to me the holes in the faceplates were still natural, and Marcel said he always blacked them out "like the factory" in his rebuilds, I sent both the tach and speedo to Marcel. I would never be able to live with it otherwise. That took several hours to strip, pack, and trip to the post office. 3 week turnaround would be great but its mostly up to the post.

Spent several hours tonight lining up the box to Brown's. Once you've committed to chroming/polishing everything, you find out how many parts there really are. I am actually leaving some pieces black, but not many.

Need to reroute some clumsy wiring, should take an hour or two besides.

Film tomorrow as I finish up this package. Winter Weather Advisory and 5 inches of fresh snow may prevent any visitors, but I'll be able to do it on my own. Temps aren't nearly as brutal as before, so with some tunes and heaters it will be fun.

[MCRider]

Addtl snow couldn't keep build buddy Bruce away. WE got our box filled with goodies for Brown's.

Pulled shock springs;

Stripped extra MC, poked out the site glass, made those MC circlip pliars earn their way;

I remember Jaguar had a source for site glasses, hope that Google search will find his thread as I'll need one.


Turn Signal brckts, speedo drive, washers, found a NIBag oil filter bolt with a 17mm hex. REally didn't want to chrome a used one with rounded edges, so serendipity prevailed:


Finaly, pulled the forkbrace off and finished the box. Got it to UPS today.

Don't expect it back till the next weekend. Coming up, we'll spend some time cleaning up the wiring routing. Tucking coiling and zip tieing in special places. The HondaMan transistor unit and the horn relays, make for some lengths of loose wiring.

[Stev-o]

Good info on the re-chroming, Ron. I plan to have the Action Four mufflers on my K4 redone. Called my local chrome shop and he will do them [I had doubts], glad I won't have the added expense of shipping.

[IndyFour]

Stripped extra MC, poked out the site glass, made those MC circlip pliars earn their way;

Ugh...I hate those little circlips!  I remember fighting the one in my MC when I rebuilt it...should have invested in that tool myself!

[Tintop]

I bought a Snap-On circlip set 30 years ago.  One pair does external, the other internal, and they both have interchangeable ends.  Haven't yet come across one I can't remove with them.  Well worth the price.

[Doctor_D]

I bought a Snap-On circlip set 30 years ago.  One pair does external, the other internal, and they both have interchangeable ends.  Haven't yet come across one I can't remove with them.  Well worth the price.

I have the Snap-On PR50A set and have to agree that they much less frustrating to use than any other snap ring pliers I've tried.

[MCRider]

I bought a Snap-On circlip set 30 years ago.  One pair does external, the other internal, and they both have interchangeable ends.  Haven't yet come across one I can't remove with them.  Well worth the price.

I have the Snap-On PR50A set and have to agree that they much less frustrating to use than any other snap ring pliers I've tried.

Do these pliars have the curved shafts that fit into the master cylinder ... cylinder?

I helped a friend clean out his deceased father in laws shop when he passed away. I was given several things as compensation, including these pliars. At the time I didn't know what they were for. But within 6 months or so it was time to rebuild my project master cyl. I was looking at related items and came across "MC circlip pliars" on the motion pro web site and said hey I've got a pair of those. Besides the right angle bend, the blades are curved to fit in the cylinder, and the tips are a permanent part of the blades. Once the holes of the circlip were flushed out with a QtTip and solvent. The pliars snatched the clip and drew everything out as seen in the picture.

I'm sure other well built but less specialized pliar would do it as well.

I wonder if these are the same for cars.

[MCRider]

Good info on the re-chroming, Ron. I plan to have the Action Four mufflers on my K4 redone. Called my local chrome shop and he will do them [I had doubts], glad I won't have the added expense of shipping.

Many chromers would hesitate to do a muffler as all the carbon will foul their tanks.

[MCRider]

Just got back from a long biz trip in New Orleans. First plane was delayed 3 hours from TX for weather. That made me late for my connector in Chicago. Turns out it was late by nearly the same time, also from TX, so it was there waiting for me when I got to Chicago. Still got home before midnight. I thought for sure I'd be sleeping in a chair somewhere.

Seems the crews ran out of de-icer in TX, not ready for the cold snap to get to them like its getting everywhere else. 3 more inches and days of sub-zero predicted for Indy.

[Tintop]

This the Snap-on / Blue Point set I have Ron.  As you can see in the photo the interchangeable tips have various curves.  Also different size tips to fit different hole sizes.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=634217&group_ID=675125&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

[MCRider]

This the Snap-on / Blue Point set I have Ron.  As you can see in the photo the interchangeable tips have various curves.  Also different size tips to fit different hole sizes.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=634217&group_ID=675125&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Those are very nice, I'm sure well made.

They look very much like the Craftsman set I have, only nicer.  They won't reach a MC circlip.

Have you actually used one on a master cylinder? The ring is down in the hole pretty deep.

[Stev-o]

Seems the crews ran out of de-icer in TX, not ready for the cold snap to get to them like its getting everywhere else. 3 more inches and days of sub-zero predicted for Indy.

Austin and Houston had freezing rain a few days back, which is quite uncommon. [last time was 3 years ago in Austin].
Does not surprise me that they ran out.

[MCRider]

Seems the crews ran out of de-icer in TX, not ready for the cold snap to get to them like its getting everywhere else. 3 more inches and days of sub-zero predicted for Indy.

Austin and Houston had freezing rain a few days back, which is quite uncommon. [last time was 3 years ago in Austin].
Does not surprise me that they ran out.

That sounds like the problem.