Topic: Rickman Honda Value?

[phactory]

I know this is a tough question, but what is the approximate value of a Rickman Honda? I would like some sort of baseline for a totally restored bike, an original bike that needs to be restored, and a good original rider.

I am not looking for a pie in the sky value, but numbers that actual bikes have changed hands for. In perusing ebay, I have seen a couple of examples sell in the $7K to $10K range. These bikes were "restored" bikes.

Maybe a good way to arrive at a value is assume that since the kit cost about the same as the original bike it was built from, then such a bike would be worth twice what a good clean original is worth today.

Comments?

TIA, Phil

[HondaMan]

I know this is a tough question, but what is the approximate value of a Rickman Honda? I would like some sort of baseline for a totally restored bike, an original bike that needs to be restored, and a good original rider.

I am not looking for a pie in the sky value, but numbers that actual bikes have changed hands for. In perusing ebay, I have seen a couple of examples sell in the $7K to $10K range. These bikes were "restored" bikes.

Maybe a good way to arrive at a value is assume that since the kit cost about the same as the original bike it was built from, then such a bike would be worth twice what a good clean original is worth today.

Comments?

TIA, Phil

When the Rickman kits came out, the 750 was selling for about $1700 (1970s dollars). The Rickman kits were all over the board, from $795 to $2195, depending on who sold them. There were also partial Rickman kits, consisting of the seat-tank, or the seat-tank-fairing, or the seat-tank-pipe or the seat-tank-fairing-pipe "kits". They also had engine hop-up kits, consisting of copies of Yoshimura pistons and cams, and even some with rods, but I don't think Rickman made the rods.

And, at one point, Rickman offered a very expensive 6-speed gearbox for the 750, around 1972.

[phactory]

HondaMan,

 I am talking about a full Rickman kit bike. Original, not restored, repainted another color than the original orange. I have seen the kits advertised in mags from the era for about the same $1700.00 as the bikes cost at the time.

 I am also under the impression that Rickman sold completed bikes. Is that true and if so, how do you differentiate form a bike built from a kit?

Thanks, Phil

[crazypj]

If you mean the nickel plated frame, alloy wheels etc the price's are just as all over the place as they ever were.
 Someone who wants one is going o pay whatever it takes, hey probably don't fetch as much as a stock bike because most people looking just want a CB750 which has driven prices up
 Pic is from 1980, fairing off so I could clean frame properly ( I also still have that jacket, and, it still fits me  )
PJ

[phactory]

PJ,

 I thought the kits came with Borrani wheels, not alloys. It that a later kit with alloys? And yes I mean the nickle plated frames with the tank,fairing, wheels, etc.

Thanks, Phil

[HondaMan]

If you mean the nickel plated frame, alloy wheels etc the price's are just as all over the place as they ever were.
 Someone who wants one is going o pay whatever it takes, hey probably don't fetch as much as a stock bike because most people looking just want a CB750 which has driven prices up
 Pic is from 1980, fairing off so I could clean frame properly ( I also still have that jacket, and, it still fits me  )
PJ

BTW, PJ: love the 100,000 mile avatar! When mine actually shows the 100,000 mark, it will have 134,600 (give or take 99 miles). During the 'racing years', I had the dual-disc front on mine, with no operational speedo drive, just ran by the tach in 3rd in town and 5th  on the road. I kept pretty close track of where I was going in a pocket notebook so I could change oil at the 1000 mile intervals.

So, you might say I'm a used-bike salesman. 
Ah, those were the days.

[ieism]

Its hard to put a price on such a bike. You can try watching an auction like Bonhams to see if one pops up.

[gerhed]

I went to visit the Rickman shop in 1969 when I was in London.
Way outside of the city--took an hour or more on the train.
They were closed.
Sign on the door said "Gone Racing".

[Ricky_Racer]

"Its hard to put a price on such a bike. You can try watching an auction like Bonhams to see if one pops up."  I've been dealing with Rickmans for many years and this statement is correct.

The reality is that the price of the CR depends on the condition of the bike, primarily the condition of the frame since stripping them for replating is problematic due to the hand brazed joints of the original Rickman. Finding a Rickman with excellent nickle plating is very difficult and many of the Rickman-Hondas that have been offered on eBay over the past few years are simply not in good condition and/or not complete.  Spare parts are rare and expensive.  I grabbed a rear swingarm in Sweden recently and it was the only good Rickman CR750 frame part I'd seen in perhaps ten years.

The more desirable early Rickman-Hondas came with superb 41.3mm Rickman forks with single Girling rotors front and rear, and AP Racing brake calipers. They also had shouldered Borrani rims and Girling rear shocks as standard. These early models had a completely glass fuel tank. The Rickman-Honda was delivered in a crate as a semi-assembled motorcycle lacking only the stock Honda components: Engine, exhaust, instruments, handlebar controls, wiring and lighting.

Later Rickman-Hondas were not nearly as competition-oriented as the early models, and were available with two-up seating, larger fairings, 38mm forks, dual front disks, and Ronal aluminum wheels. They also had a crude steel fuel tank hidden under a fiberglass tankcover.

To my knowledge, the only partial kits were those components produced to mount directly to a stock CB750K frame, and these parts ought not be confused with the components supplied with the complete serial numbered Rickman-framed CR750 (CR=Cafe Racer).

Some, but not all CR750 parts were similar to those supplied with the equivalent Kawasaki Z-1 and Triumph Bonneville Cafe Racer kit bikes.

I currently have two complete Rickman-Honda CR750's and I've attached a photo of my only assembled example. It was originally built by the late Lance "Rickey Racer" Weil when he was located in Pomona, California back in the late 70's and 80's. My avatar is a photo of the logo on the instruments of this bike. Right now I'm doing a very light cosmetic restoration on this motorcycle.

My next Rickman-Honda will be my last.

If anyone is seriously interested in acquiring a Rickman-Honda or has any additional questions about Rickman Cafe Racers, please feel free to PM me.  RR

[homedog]

Heh Ricky Racer, good answer on the question of value.

When i insured mine, I went with 20K. I figured it was worth at least 10 grand. Most people I know, more in the know than I, placed the value at 15-20K.

I was  offered 15K for it. At a time when I had just finished it to ride, not to sell.
I'd have to think long and hard if someone offered me that again.

The only complete Rickman built CR's that I am aware of were the 150 or so Rickman Enfields they built when Royal Enfield went Belly up and Floyd Clymer bought out the Engine stocks.


Phactory, if you need more Rickman info, Ricky racer is a great source, knows way more about them than I. But I'll help too!

[Terry in Australia]

A nice original Rickman CR750 with twin throat Dellorto's and an ARD magneto, big bore kit, headwork, cam etc went for a tad over $7000.00 AUD earlier this year on EBay Oz.

It had been sitting in a garage for most of it's life and probably would have benefitted from a light cosmetic resto, but was in a rideable condition.

I bid it up to $5K, but didn't expect to win it. I guess an absolutely mint unrestored example with a documented history or a famous owner could go for up to $15K, but over here at least, they weren't all that "special"?

I was tempted to buy a Rickman Kawasaki back in 1985, the bike wreckers wanted $2000 for it, it was certainly a restoration project, but all there with a good engine. I took it for a ride but just couldn't get into it, so I let it go and bought a really nice original 1975 Z900 instead with only 5000 miles.

 It'd be interesting to see which bike was worth more money nowadays, those early Z's are worth silly money now! Cheers, Terry.

   

[phactory]

Terry,

 I have to agree with you on value. What owners think the bikes are worth and what they actually change hands for are two different numbers. At least what I have been seeing. I have seen Homedog's bike and it really was beautiful! With that said I think his offer of $15K was "all the money", but I can understand his reluctance to sell.

 I talked to a friend of mine who has restored 3 Rickman's. A Honda, A Kawasaki and a Triumph. These bikes were total ground up resto's with no expense spared, especially on the Kawasaki, and they look it! He feels that the top dollars for the Rickman Honda he did is just about $15K.

 The Triumph may be worth more than that as it was an original bike that only required extensive cleaning, and he felt that he would be hard pressed to get all of the money out of the Kawi as close to $25K was spent on that.

 Also the market for Rickman's is VERY small. The vast majority of people would rather just buy a stock machine.

 They are BEAUTIFUL though!!

Phil

[Ricky_Racer]

Phil, just for the sake of a slow time of the year and "s**ts & grins" I think I'll start a little S**tstorm here...

Yes, a lot of people would like the comfort and (perceived) predictable financial security of riding a stock bike, but then most people feel safe with mediocrity as well.

After winning the Bol d'Or in the early '70's, in a search for better handling and more chassis control JapAuto went to an Egli-designed frame.  "Big Benley" used a Dresda frame. Standard Honda SOHC chassis are only used for successful on-the-edge racing when the rules require it.

A stock CB750 has a 80 pound weight disadvantage compared to a fully-equipped street Rickman-Honda CR750. In addition, the Rickman's forks are massive compared with the CB750, and the frame is a much more rigid, race-developed platform.  Driving the Rickman deep into a sweeping curve as compared with even a well sorted CB750 is like attacking the same curve with a Corvette as compared with a Dodge Minivan!  The first vehicle feels like it still has room to perform while the Minivan makes your butt pucker!

Certainly, the riding position of the Rickman is beyond aggressive; I wouldn't want to take a long trip on one.  But for canyon-carving Sunday mornings, shooting the loop, blowing them away at the the monthly ton-up club meeting, and gathering a crowd at bike shows, nothing beats a Seeley, Egli, Dresda, Rau... or a Rickman-Honda! 

Yes, the market is smaller. Some would say more sophisticated and discriminating.  But how many stock CB750's have any of us personally seen?  And how many irreplaceable specially framed bikes? 

However, like most jewels the available supply of true gems is also much smaller than the market.     RR

[phactory]

RR,

 I agree with you, but I was just stating a fact as I see it. I view the Rickman much like i view my Magni BMW MB2, a true exotic that was light years ahead of the stock bike it was built from.

 I have never ridden a Rickman, but after sitting on one recently I can see that the very high rearset pegs would make for a demanding ride. Sure would be fun though!!   

Cheers, Phil

[crazypj]

Yep, the handling is such that 130mph is actually pretty boring on a Rickman whereas a stock CB750 gets pretty 'interesting' around 90mph if there are any white lines, undulations etc in the road. Don't remember manufacturer of wheels, was some obscure Italian bunch only used for a few months, couldn't get small enough rear sprocket to use high enough gearing (topped out at 137mph)
 BTW, it was a late model with fiberglass cover over ugly steel tank, fiberglass tanks got banned in Britain after a few cheap/badly made ones exploded in accidents
PJ

Phil, just for the sake of a slow time of the year and "s**ts & grins" I think I'll start a little S**tstorm here...

Yes, a lot of people would like the comfort and (perceived) predictable financial security of riding a stock bike, but then most people feel safe with mediocrity as well.

After winning the Bol d'Or in the early '70's, in a search for better handling and more chassis control JapAuto went to an Egli-designed frame.  "Big Benley" used a Dresda frame. Standard Honda SOHC chassis are only used for successful on-the-edge racing when the rules require it.

A stock CB750 has a 80 pound weight disadvantage compared to a fully-equipped street Rickman-Honda CR750. In addition, the Rickman's forks are massive compared with the CB750, and the frame is a much more rigid, race-developed platform.  Driving the Rickman deep into a sweeping curve as compared with even a well sorted CB750 is like attacking the same curve with a Corvette as compared with a Dodge Minivan!  The first vehicle feels like it still has room to perform while the Minivan makes your butt pucker!

Certainly, the riding position of the Rickman is beyond aggressive; I wouldn't want to take a long trip on one.  But for canyon-carving Sunday mornings, shooting the loop, blowing them away at the the monthly ton-up club meeting, and gathering a crowd at bike shows, nothing beats a Seeley, Egli, Dresda, Rau... or a Rickman-Honda! 

Yes, the market is smaller. Some would say more sophisticated and discriminating.  But how many stock CB750's have any of us personally seen?  And how many irreplaceable specially framed bikes? 

However, like most jewels the available supply of true gems is also much smaller than the market.     RR

[Terry in Australia]

Phil, just for the sake of a slow time of the year and "s**ts & grins" I think I'll start a little S**tstorm here...

Yes, a lot of people would like the comfort and (perceived) predictable financial security of riding a stock bike, but then most people feel safe with mediocrity as well.

After winning the Bol d'Or in the early '70's, in a search for better handling and more chassis control JapAuto went to an Egli-designed frame.  "Big Benley" used a Dresda frame. Standard Honda SOHC chassis are only used for successful on-the-edge racing when the rules require it.

A stock CB750 has a 80 pound weight disadvantage compared to a fully-equipped street Rickman-Honda CR750. In addition, the Rickman's forks are massive compared with the CB750, and the frame is a much more rigid, race-developed platform.  Driving the Rickman deep into a sweeping curve as compared with even a well sorted CB750 is like attacking the same curve with a Corvette as compared with a Dodge Minivan!  The first vehicle feels like it still has room to perform while the Minivan makes your butt pucker!

Certainly, the riding position of the Rickman is beyond aggressive; I wouldn't want to take a long trip on one.  But for canyon-carving Sunday mornings, shooting the loop, blowing them away at the the monthly ton-up club meeting, and gathering a crowd at bike shows, nothing beats a Seeley, Egli, Dresda, Rau... or a Rickman-Honda! 

Yes, the market is smaller. Some would say more sophisticated and discriminating.  But how many stock CB750's have any of us personally seen?  And how many irreplaceable specially framed bikes? 

However, like most jewels the available supply of true gems is also much smaller than the market.     RR

Ha ha, spoken like a true Rickman salesman Ricky! Now a Seeley, on the other hand, is a much nicer bike IMHO, I wanted one desperately when I had my new (but fugly) CB750F1 back in the 1970's, there was a shop here in Melbourne called Bol'Dor that sold complete kits and would convert stock bikes from "whoa to show", but as a teenager, I just didn't have that kind of dough.

No matter, I'd rather have a really nice home built special like Big Benly, (with it's modified stock frame) than a show winning "trailer queen" that I'm too frightened to sit on in case my belt buckle scratches the tank, or worse still, I fall off it and destroy all that (average build quality, but ridiculously priced) "unobtainium". Cheers, Terry.

[Ricky_Racer]

I can see your perspective, Terry, but ain't it nice to be able to build both. Now about that gorgeous aluminum tank on your "endurance" racer. Hmmm...

Strange, but I just didn't expect you to be so into "rat bikes."  I always thought you built the nicest bikes possible, as (with a couple exceptions) do we all. Certainly, all the work I've seen you do in the past has been top notch, and I really can't see anyone putting that much heart into a bike only to plan on dragging his belt buckle across that carefully laid paint. Or across that "unobtainium" aluminum tank...

Oh, and I don't know what your mates in DownUnder like to do with their Rickmans and other so-called "Unobtanium", but up here they are ridden.  I always thought "trailer queens" were all Sofa-Davidson billet-barges, but then I just remembered the price of Sandcasts.  Oh, but that's a stock bike, isn't it?  Surely then they can't possibly be "trailer queens...." 

BTW, I'd like to have a Seeley in the stable as well, even if the tank and seat are so clumsy looking!  I even appreciate the hand brazed Reynolds tubing of the Seeley, like the Rickman. Of course neither has a greater than average build quality compared to the magnificent Honda CB750 production welds and high quality steel!

And I'd also like to have first dibs on your lovely endurance tank as well, when/if you decide it's too nice to actually use! 

But I do agree with you that a rare bike (like a well-preserved bit of motorcycle art like a Rickman CR) ought to be ridden pleasurably fast but with reasonable care. Anything less would be Neanderthal.  RR

[homedog]

Sofa Davidson Billet Barges, that was good!

[Terry in Australia]

Hey Ricky, why would you think I like "Rat" bikes, just because I said I prefer home built specials? All my machine work that you say you like is done in my garage, so I'm not sure why you'd confuse quality home built specials (such as Patrick Bodden's beautiful home built "Big Benly, or one of Rex Wolfendon's "T Rex Racing" CB750 based post classic racers) as "Rats"?

The "Trailer Queen" comment relates to any bike that is carted from show to show in a specially made trailer, and rarely ridden. Luckily Oz has a healthy post classic racing culture, particularly among those guys who were around when these bikes were new, so not only are Rickmans, Seeley's, Egli's, Moto Martin's, Japauto's etc regularly ridden, they're regularly raced.

Far too many older bikes are over-restored now and parked in heated garages between being trailered to shows, to me they cease to be functional motorcycles and just become statues of motorcycles, and their values are artificially inflated by owners of similar bikes, bidding them up far past what they're really worth at auctions. This is a common ruse in the "Sandcast" world, but happens with just about anything "collectable".

I'm glad you ride your Rickman regularly Ricky, these old bikes should be enjoyed for what they are, motorcycles, not some yuppie's idea of an  "investment". If you ever come out to Oz, do it in January and go to the "Phillip Island Classic" over the Australia Day long weekend, where you'll see lots of these old "Classics" being ridden at "ten tenths", as they were designed to be.

Walking thru the pits is better than any bike show I've ever been to. Cheers, Terry.

[Retro Rocket]

Hi Terry, sorry for the hijack but where are the alternators on the "T Rex" Honda's. Awesome bikes by the way...

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Mick, that's Rex on his 1000cc 130 RW BHP race bike, I think he just runs a Dyna and a small battery, but he builds beautiful road versions up to 1200cc as well, with his own design alternator for lighting, not unlike the M3 Racing item.

When I went to pick up my newly powdercoated F2 frame a couple of years ago, the guy there gave me one of Rex's frames by mistake. I must admit, I did think twice before I corrected him, and (sadly) handed it back.............. 

[Ricky_Racer]

Hey, Terry... I'm traveling across the country today and looking forward to getting home. Just a quick note... I always enjoy our interchanges because I have a strong respect for both your mechanical work and your verbal skills.

One of these days, we've got to have a pint together. Just as long as it isn't 'Vegimite'! 

Cheers,  RR

[Retro Rocket]

Hi Terry, the 750 i'm doing up has exactly the same ignition set up and i have to try and work out how to convert it to run an alternator. I would have loved a peek at that frame, mines heavily braced but a little peek would have been nice....

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

Hey, Terry... I'm traveling across the country today and looking forward to getting home. Just a quick note... I always enjoy our interchanges because I have a strong respect for both your mechanical work and your verbal skills.

One of these days, we've got to have a pint together. Just as long as it isn't 'Vegimite'! 

Cheers,  RR

Ha ha, no worries Ricky, if you consumed a pint of Vegemite, I think your travelling days would be over! Don't get me wrong either, I love old bikes and those Rickmans are beautiful, but there are plenty of nice "home builds" that are still coming out of garages now, and to me at least, are just as desirable. And if you're ever down this way, I'd love to have a beer (or ten) with you! 

Hi Terry, the 750 i'm doing up has exactly the same ignition set up and i have to try and work out how to convert it to run an alternator. I would have loved a peek at that frame, mines heavily braced but a little peek would have been nice....

Mick

G'Day Mick, is your bike an ex-racer? I'd love to see a pic! Now I suppose the easy answer is to reinstall an original wiring loom, but if your bike is an ex-racer, does it still have the taper on the crank for the alternator rotor, or has that been chopped off?

I guess you could run an alternator off a modern bike behind your cylinder block, and run it with a toothed belt off the end of your crank? I'm sure I've seen that done, but you'd have to install a crank seal on that end so you don't have problems with oil being spat everywhere by the belt.

I haven't dropped around to Rex's workshop for awhile, he's pretty much retired now, but still runs a "one man show" building race bikes for Oz's wealthier post classic racers. If I win the lotto next week I'm gonna order one of his 1200cc road bikes, they're engineering pornography.

My "Endurance racer" project is still alive and well, I need to finish bracing the frame, install Gordons top frame rail strengthening kit, and find some Marzocchi 38mm forks. I've got the choice of either my "Hotrod" 836cc engine, or a 1060cc engine I've just finished collecting all the parts for, including a new Ape crank, H/D rods, ported and polished K0 head, big cam, a mint chrome Yoshimura pipe, (not a Yamiya repro, I don't like them) Mikuni 29mm smoothbore carbs, Martek electronic ignition, "Telcool" oil cooler, etc.

I've got a beautiful pair of period wide Borrani alloy rimmed wheels with rear disc brake, Brembo calipers, Marzocchi strada rear shocks, (or Koni's if the Marzocchi's don't work)  and of course that beautiful hand formed alloy tank. If I get some time these Christmas holidays, I might roughly assemble it to give me some incentive to get it all together, it will be a real hoot! Cheers, Terry.  

[Retro Rocket]

Mine was a 10 second drag bike from the early eighties,{wheelie bars and all}, it has a RC crank and rods ported head venolia pistons 31 mm smoothbores and lots of other goodies, had to machine a bit off the pistons to get the compression down {14.5 to 1} it also had cerianni forks and it also had the Boranni wide rims {still have these} and a brembo front brake. It {the bike} now has 43mm gsxr 1100k front end and a gsxr 1100j swingarm cut down with twin shock mounts, its a little bit longer than stock but looks great especially with the Gsxr 4.5" and 3.5" 3 spoke rims, hence the name "retro rocket"  . I'll have to get the camera out and take some pics and i'll put them in a new thread. Why don't you like the yamiya pipes, i was thinking of getting some as they have access to the filter and look cool.?

Mick

PS yep the crank is all stock on the ends. Love the idea of the alternator behind the barrels.