Author Topic: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '74 K4 Orange Lucifer  (Read 7456 times)

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Offline pharr2305

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Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '74 K4 Orange Lucifer
« on: May 31, 2009, 07:32:15 PM »
So after dropping a fast post I decided to edit and be a little more personal.  ;D

The bike belonged to my dad, the second owner and to my memory the bike has never run. Of course it last ran probably 20-23 years ago, before I was around(I'm 21). But I figured since I found a bunch of Cylmer and Honda repair manuals I should be able to breathe life into this legacy and maybe pass it to my dad so I can work on rebuilding another!

I began a couple months ago by stripping down the bike to the essentials. It has turned out to be a little more difficult than removing and putting back together. I tried that and discovered that I had removed and replaced the engine for nothing. So here I am continuing in the progression of my project. I have ordered some necessary items such as gasket sets and what not according to the "Rebuild for dummies" thread.

The gas tank was rusted over and filled with sediment. I know I need a rust remover/sealant of some sort. Any thoughts?

Currently in process of breaking down the motor. I have removed the breather cover of the camshaft and according to my repair manual it says to rotate the crankshaft to adjust the timing index line to a certain point. How do I turn the crankshaft?

I've removed the side covers and believed I could rotate the crankshaft by turning the nut behind the alternator cover however it didn't want to budge and I didn't want to break anything.

I am le stumped. Any clarifying questions? Ideas?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 05:57:06 PM by pharr2305 »

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 08:50:36 PM »


This is the 'before' shot accurate with about 2 decades of dust, grit and abuse from little boys and girls pretending to ride. (Also a test post to see if I can post pictures correctly) =D
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 05:57:33 PM by pharr2305 »

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2009, 09:17:57 PM »
     Is the motor seized up from sitting?  Can you kick it over with the kick start.  Pull the plugs, put a small amount of lubricant( Marvels, Deep Creep, diesel fuel, etc) into each cylinder.  If the motor turns over you can take the points cover off and put a wrench on the nut to turn the engine over.  But ONLY if it is already free and the plugs are OUT.
Throw a handful of sheet rock screws into the tank and shake that thing to break up the junk in there.  You can use other things too like a bicycle chain  and it may be easier to get out.  Then do a search as there are a few threads on cleaning a tank.  Mine sat for 25 years and was not difficult to get back into running shape.  I would concentrate on the gas tank, carbs, ignition system, and brakes to start.  Those are the things that will definitely need to be addressed.  Everything else well it just depends... the fact that it looks like it was stored inside is a huge factor in your favor.

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 07:07:16 AM »
 No the kick starter will not turn either.  :-\

Offline Laminar

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 08:12:20 AM »
When my CB200's engine was seized, I sprayed a whole bunch of Liquid Wrench penetrating lube in all cylinders and let it sit for a day or two, then took a wrench to the alternator bolt - it immediately came free.

Offline greenjeans

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 01:09:34 PM »
Take the plugs out and get some PB Blaster in there....don't be shy.  Get a heat gun and point it down the spark plug holes to warm it up.
Put more PB Blaster in there and let it soak over night.... You might have to do this a few times.   Heat and PB Blaster are a great combo.

Will the bike roll ?  After you've let it sit for a few days, you could try rolling it and popping the clutch to see if that jars things

If that thing has been stored inside most of it's life, you have a pretty good chance of freeing that motor up.  It might not take much.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 01:11:21 PM by greenjeans »
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 02:12:57 PM »
The kickstarter turned when I drained the oil but when I hooked everything back together it was locked. The engine is out of the frame (no clutch popping) with breather cover off and soaking in WD-40 and Liquid Wrench.

Haven't heard of PB Blaster yet just researched it. Now to hound down a cheap heat gun.

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 02:30:18 PM »
Other guys will be able to help you a lot more with the engine work.  My suggestions lie with the tank and carbs.  After 21+ years of sedentary life, whatever gasoline was in that bike is now solid varnish.

When your engine work looks to be near completion, start tearing into your tank and carbs.  Don't make the mistake of cleaning your carbs thoroughly and then running a dirty tank.  It'll clog your carbs quite quickly.  There are a myriad of ways to clean tanks explored here.  I'd be a little worried, maybe, about rust pinholes and things if it's sat that long, but the only way to know is to try it out. (well, that and look for little bubbles in the paint)  If you're good with following directions and don't mind playing with electricity, electrolysis may be for you, as it may spare your brilliant orange paint.  If not, or if the paint's pretty far gone, you can try The Works drain cleaner but be careful to use enough baking soda and water to neutralize all that acid afterward, or you'll get a bad flash rust.  Directions are all over the forum somewhere...

Invest in Berryman's carb cleaner or Yamaha Carb Clean (yamaha has my vote) and completely disassemble.  I don't think the '73 750s have the amount of rubber bits and o-rings the 650s have, but you'll still want to remove them all before your carb soaking. 
Invest also in new OEM carb kits. They're not too pricey and will give you peace of mind. Take out all your jets and clean them with twisted copper wire so you don't alter the soft brass jets, but get the crappy calcium/bromide/varnish sediment out of them. Your carbs will probably come off four or five times before they stop acting like they're clogged.  Eventually you'll get good at removing and installing them. 

I probably have more advice rattling around in my head that'll come out eventually.  I was 21 when I bought my bike... now 24 for my first summer riding it.  Your project may progress more quickly. Best of luck. :D
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Offline Laminar

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 02:50:36 PM »
The kickstarter turned when I drained the oil but when I hooked everything back together it was locked. The engine is out of the frame (no clutch popping) with breather cover off and soaking in WD-40 and Liquid Wrench.

Haven't heard of PB Blaster yet just researched it. Now to hound down a cheap heat gun.

Hit up Harbor Freight for cheap tools. I picked up a timing gun, torque wrench, grease gun, rubber gloves, and some other misc. stuff for under $70 this week.

Also, do a quick search here for Soda Blasting. If you have an air compressor, it's super cheap and easy to set up, and it works wonders, way better than liquid carb cleaner and scrubbing.

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 04:45:10 PM »
I guess I must of perceived your post cause today I broke apart the carbs and let soak in carb cleaner for awhile while I sanded down and primed my headlight bucket. (I saw someone else's thread and it inspired me haha)

They were really covered with globby resin but now appear quite clean. Thanks for the heads up I've read and seen rebuild kits and I guess I'll be needing them sooner or later. I think all is well with the carbs with the exception of one where the needle was stuck inside of the jet and disconnected as one piece. Would new OEM carb kits include new needles/jets? Is that important or would I be alright only replacing one?

Meh I'll have to do a little more research I suppose.

I did find a heat gun for 5 dorrah on craigslist so I guess imma run and pick it up and see if its worthy. =D

Thanks for the tips I'll be updating soon!

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 07:38:27 PM »
oh, speaking of things that rattle out of my head, I had great results cleaning MickeyX's carbs with warm Simplegreen in a little saucepan I had no intention of ever cooking in.;)

It got all the annoying grease and crap off the outsides and the varnish out of the insides. :D
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2009, 10:12:56 AM »
So the $5 heat gun I found on Craigslist was legit so the last two nights I've been sitting out in a camping chair holding that heat gun while surfing these forums and reading up of different things.

One quick question would the position of the clutch have any importance in the not turning of my crankshaft? Where should the gear be? Should it be clicked up/down or does it matter?

Offline Frankenkit

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 10:17:36 AM »
if our 650 is anything close to your 750, it shouldn't really matter one iota what gear you're in as far as the crankshaft spinning.  In trying to remove the rotor, they say to put it in gear and take that bolt out and they're LYING! It still spins freely.  Your results may vary significantly, though.
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline Laminar

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2009, 11:13:48 AM »
In trying to remove the rotor, they say to put it in gear and take that bolt out and they're LYING! It still spins freely.

That's why you hold the rear brake.  ;)

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2009, 02:05:16 PM »
SUCCESS!!

I turned the crankshaft and it ejaculated it's fluid all over my leg but hooray!

Onward...

Offline Johnie

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2009, 03:56:30 PM »
SUCCESS!!

I turned the crankshaft and it ejaculated it's fluid all over my leg but hooray!

Onward...

That is good news.  You are half way there...well almost half way. ;D  I love that orange too.
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Offline Joel

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2009, 04:08:51 PM »
SUCCESS!!

I turned the crankshaft and it ejaculated it's fluid all over my leg but hooray!

Onward...

That is good news.  You are half way there...well almost half way. ;D  I love that orange too.

I'm a fan of the orange too.  An ad for an orange 500 is how I found out about the SOHC 4s.  :)

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2009, 08:35:22 PM »
I do like the orange but I've had so many thoughts on how I'd like to have it colorized. Of course then again I'd like to get this one running and get my pops to buy me another and trade him his old legacy bachelor bike you know, old folks and sweet memories.

So today after much excitement I progressed with much progress. I disassembled the camshaft, cylinder head and have the pistons and springs soaking in part cleaner. Took the combustion chamber and engine head and cleaned with degreaser and shined it right up.

So I leave you some pictures!


Stopping point for the day.


Sure glad I decided to break it down!!

Well goodnight I'll see what progress happens next and keep you informed!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 08:09:23 PM by pharr2305 »

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 12:33:13 PM »
So I've cleaned the pistons, the intake and exhaust valves and am currently wondering where to continue from here.

I have a broken jet assembly on one of the carbs; $75 will get me 4 rebuild kits and equip them all with new jets, gaskets, etc. Probably a wise idea? Maybe buy just 1? What do you guys think?

On the pistons I had great luck with the exception of 2 where the top two rings were stationary and ended up just breaking apart so I know i'll need a new set as well.

Also, I've been contemplating a lot whether or not to split the crankcase open. I don't think it's necessary but might be a good idea. I also want to do that mainly to clean and shine up the case. Any thoughts?

Offline Laminar

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 12:41:08 PM »
So I've cleaned the pistons, the intake and exhaust valves and am currently wondering where to continue from here.

I have a broken jet assembly on one of the carbs; $75 will get me 4 rebuild kits and equip them all with new jets, gaskets, etc. Probably a wise idea? Maybe buy just 1? What do you guys think?

I wouldn't skimp on carbs. It sucks to have to take them out two or three times when doing everything right the first time would have meant avoiding those issues altogether. Be suspicious of any jet needles that come with rebuild kits - they often mess up tuning - stick with stock.

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 05:20:27 PM »
I've hit another snag. I raised the bike up, took off the front wheel. Followed the instructions on disassembling the forks however I can't seem to get the alan nut on the bottom of the fork to budge.

It wont give at all, I've tried fattening my wrench a little but can't seem to move it and don't want to strip(round out) the bolt. I have no clearance to get a pair of vise grips in there either...
 
Any ideas?

I'm letting it soak with some liquid wrench at the moment to see if that and maybe some heat will help.

Grrr

Offline Laminar

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2009, 06:06:58 PM »
Those are toughies. PB Blaster, heat, and leverage are your allies. An air impact drill would be nice. If you round out the allen hole, you can always hammer in a size bigger allen wrench.

Offline Alan F.

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2009, 07:29:18 PM »
Did someone say cheap heat gun?

Harbor Freight Tools Dude, if you haven't been there it's worth a look.  Quality is another issue, but if you don't rely on their tools to make a living with they're not too bad.

http://yp.yahoo.com/ypResults.py?stx=harbor+freight&stp=a&desc=harbor+freight&city=Dallas&state=TX&uzip=75202&msa=1920&slt=32.78294&sln=-96.800194&cs=4

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2009, 08:08:36 PM »
I did find a cheap heat gun via Craigslist but have also fallen in love with Harbor Freight.

Just today I went around and picked up a cylinder hone, battery charger (electrolysis on my tank), tons of sandpaper for wetsanding/polishing, rotary buffer, and some Rustoleum primer & paint for my soon to be sexy frame.

I also called and ordered parts like gaskets, rings, and oil seals and have carburetor parts in the mail. Hooray it's happening! =P

Tomorrow I will put my order for a Tsubika cam chain, tensioner, primary chains. Ah who knows. I've wondered how important replacing those are since the bike appears to be in good condition. But at the same time I want to do the best I can before I seal it up so the next time I crack a case will be on an entirely different bike. Eh

I've started to initiate work on the crankcase then encountered 2 12mm bolts that don't wanna budge so they shall marinade in penetrate tonight. In the meanwhile I did some finishing sanding on the frame, swingarm, and centerstand and primed my frame. I need some more primer so I'll wait till tomorrow to prime the rest. Probably another can of paint now that I think about it.
 
PICTURES- I've read and can understand why everybody loves pictures so I'll start adding more I promise. These are kinda boring but enjoy...or else.

Frame before

Frame after

Offline pharr2305

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Re: Paul's First CB750 Rebuild - '73 Orange Lucifer
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 01:48:44 PM »
I've painted the frame, swingarm, and centerstand today and coated with a layer of hardener. So shiny!

I made an electrolysis setup for the tank; followed the instructions. I have a coat hanger for the node, I'm using salt water(fixing to run and get washing soda?), a 12V 6amp battery charger, and have the tank tank entry node and tank separated with a piece of rubber.

I've submerged and set it all up and am currently waiting to notice some difference since I haven't seen any. I thought it was a quick noticeable thing. Any ideas?

Well I'm gonna let it cook and run some errands maybe I'll see a difference when I return.

*fingers crossed*

Anyone know a good place to get a set of primary chains?