Author Topic: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help  (Read 2452 times)

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Offline cormier1989

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why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« on: June 27, 2009, 05:53:35 AM »
So i went on a ride with a friend of mine into new york the other day and after we filled up my bike couldnt go above 55mph. If i pulled in the clutch my bike would rev up but not speed up. After a while of riding a harley was passing by me and as soon as it passed my fonr axle my bike was back to normal and immediatly started picking up. Later that night i was ridning my bike home and i coulnt seem to get her to go above 75mph. Anyone have any ideas what it might be? The problem seemed to start after filling up. I was thinking that because of the angle of my tank and the location of my petcock that i cannot use all of my fuel so there is always fuel at the bottom i cant get to. Perhaps water settled and my carbs were sucking up too much? I only put premium gas in my bike to.

Offline CBGhia

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2009, 06:20:55 AM »
It could be a lot of things.  Have you checked your points? and the wires going to the coil?  Are you sure you are running on all 4 cylinders? (you can spit on the exhaust after it has run for a sec to find out)

You may have gotten some bad gas, you may have some crud that has worked its way into your carbs and clogged your jets. 

BTW,  I am sure that you can run regular rather than premium.  Your engine will run best on the lowest grade that doesn't make it ping (detonate).  Anything above that will actually add to the carbon deposits in your engine. 
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Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 06:43:07 AM »
Make sure your fuel line always slopes down.  If you have an in-line filter, either get rid of it and trust your in-tank filter or mount the in-line standing straight up on top of the carb fuel gallery.  A horizontally mounted in-line filter can trap air and slow fuel delivery to a trickle.

+1 on checking that all 4 are firing

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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 08:08:16 AM »
Honda's always wake-up when passed by a Harley !! Firing on 3 cyls.=55mph...check the pipes for even heat....plugs.....plug-caps and plug wires are the usual suspects.
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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 08:23:09 AM »
Wet (water in the) gas can make it act just like this. Try another tank of gas after you run this one all the way out, or just drain it and start over.

I don't know about other areas, but here in Denver, CO, the "economy" gas stations are running poor maintenance on their tanks because of slim margins on the gas. They are not shutting off the pumps early enough, and the water levels are too high in their tanks.

I recently went to a cut-rate station because I was out of gas and it was there, and in 3 miles the engine would not idle, despite the fact that the carb was overflowing onto the intake manifold. There was so much water in the gas that it was separating in the little puddles in the manifold, clearly visible. The float in the carb would not close the inlet valve because the specific gravity was so far off.

I bought 6 bottles of methanol ("gas line anti-freeze" they call it) and limped through the day, drained half the gas that weekend and added more methanol and good gas, got through it. Same weekend, our neighbor's daughter had to have her car towed home after filling at another similar station: Dad was draining the gas into buckets and it was obviously more than 50% water.

The stations always have water in their tanks: the fuel pickups in those tanks float on a little bouy that is supposed to get just the gas on the top. When the gas level drops near the water level, which is monitored by a special instrument that can tell where the water level is, an alarm light shows up for the gas station operator to go out and put a sign on the pump that says "Out of Gas". Trouble around here is, the operators don't give a $#@! and ignore the warnings, particularly at the cut-rate places.

When the water gets so deep that the station cannot hold much gas, they call a service that comes and pumps out the tanks from the bottom, so as to pull out the water. On those trucks, there is another special instrument that indicates the amount of water vs. the amount of gas that is in this mixture: they stop pumping when it eaches about 50/50. This leaves about 1 foot of water in the tanks. This is a "blanket" that will leak first if the tank starts to leak, so only water will leak into the ground from the bottom of a tank. There is another indicator in the station's system that keeps track of tank levels against how much gas is pumped: if the level is lower than expected, it sets off a leak alarm and the station shuts down, calls for a service to come out and remove all their gas and water, and they dig out the tanks to start over.

Simple, huh?  8)

(BTW, I'm an engineer, and I've designed this crap before, that's how I know....)
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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 08:57:42 AM »
Kinda makes you wonder if they are adding water to the gas on purpose !!   Same thing happens here in so. calif.
   How long has it been since you have done a major tune up on your bike ?
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Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 09:02:39 AM »
+1 you bring up a good point. I went to a little gas station and got premium... Which if you think about, how many people get premium? and how many people get premium at a small gas station. Im going to put something in my gas to see if i can get the water out. Im also going to check my plugs but i think its agua in my gas becuase i did get my speed back.

Offline fishhead

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 09:25:01 AM »
The float in the carb would not close the inlet valve because the specific gravity was so far off.

(BTW, I'm an engineer, and I've designed this crap before, that's how I know....)

 Huh???

 Explain how that works..

 The float doesn't sink in water or gas. Water is heavier than gas and the float would be more boyant in water than it would be in gas. It would still be boyant either with gas or with water or a mixture od the 2.

????
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Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 12:36:22 PM »
my #2 cylinder is the one thats poping and sputtering. I put some heet in the gas to evaporate any water there might be. Im going to check the #2 spark plug and see how bad it looks.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 04:04:36 PM »
The float in the carb would not close the inlet valve because the specific gravity was so far off.

(BTW, I'm an engineer, and I've designed this crap before, that's how I know....)

 Huh???

 Explain how that works..

 The float doesn't sink in water or gas. Water is heavier than gas and the float would be more boyant in water than it would be in gas. It would still be boyant either with gas or with water or a mixture od the 2.

????



Water in the gas is heavier, so the pressure in the head above the float valve is greater than the buoyancy of the float, maybe?

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2009, 04:13:37 PM »
Gives a whole new meaning to "watering down the gas" eh! :D
I'd also check your advancer for a stretched or broken spring or dry/rusty pivot points, my bike wouldn't go over 50mph until I pulled mine out and greased it up.

Funnily enough my bike always perks up when passed by a Harley, I always thought it wanted to chew on the Harleys' back tire! ;D
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Offline razor02097

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2009, 05:23:06 PM »
Gives a whole new meaning to "watering down the gas" eh! :D
I'd also check your advancer for a stretched or broken spring or dry/rusty pivot points, my bike wouldn't go over 50mph until I pulled mine out and greased it up.

Funnily enough my bike always perks up when passed by a Harley, I always thought it wanted to chew on the Harleys' back tire! ;D

Na hush remember she was a cop bike... they have a special sensor that picks up a squid on a harley   :D
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2009, 09:09:38 PM »
The float in the carb would not close the inlet valve because the specific gravity was so far off.

(BTW, I'm an engineer, and I've designed this crap before, that's how I know....)

 Huh???

 Explain how that works..

 The float doesn't sink in water or gas. Water is heavier than gas and the float would be more boyant in water than it would be in gas. It would still be boyant either with gas or with water or a mixture od the 2.

????



Water in the gas is heavier, so the pressure in the head above the float valve is greater than the buoyancy of the float, maybe?

mystic_1

Essentially, that could be right in the bike fuel "drain" system, mystic. Except, there's not enough hydrostatic head in most of our bikes, save the old BMW 10 gallon touring tank they used to have in the 1970s for the R75/5-/6-/7 series bikes. Those would sometimes overflow the carbs if the carbs needed a rebuild.

But, in the car, the pressure in the float seat face is very small, and the fuel pump applies a solid 6 PSI of gas, but almost 9 PSI of the water-gas mix. I measured it, and at first could not figure out why I was getting such high fuel pressure: I knew that was why the bowl was flooding over. Granted, the carb had 70,000 miles on it at that point...  ::)  But, the little rubber seal on the tiny float valve would (still does, in fact) stop the gas, but not the water under pressure: it would probably not stop fuel at that pressure, either.

The little flapper valves in these older fuel pumps are all metal construction with no rubber seals. The thinner gasolines will leak some pressure back into the fuel line (to the tank) on each stroke, which is the pressure regulator method used in these cheapie pumps of old. The thicker water seals those valves better, and the discharge pressure rises quite a bit. I've been through this before, with other cars over the years, so it should have dawned on me sooner than it did: it has just been about 15 years since the last time it happened to me, and I had sort of forgotten about it.   :-\
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Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2009, 07:29:43 AM »
well i replaced my goddamn spark plugs and my bike was doing good and then... I still have the same problem, cant go above 55mpg. I guess its my coils next... My bike also makes this F**king annoying whining sound now and when i was pushing it into the garage while it was off i noticed a clicking sound. WTF! So besides the friggin coils im out of ideas as to what is wrong with my bike. I pulled the wire off the #2 spark plug while i was moving at 55 and there was no difference so its my #2, but i cant explain why it will work one second and the next it wont? I figured if the coil of spark plug wasnt working then that would be that, it wouldnt go off and on. For the most part though my #2 isnt working. Im frustrated. I dont know if it means anything, but my bike will idle. When i unplug the #2 plug it will slowly die. If it is my coils where would i go to get a new one?

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2009, 07:42:49 AM »
#2 and #3 fire off the same coil.  If the coil is bad, likely #3 would show the same symptoms.  There are other components along the way that should also be checked (points, condenser, blue and yellow wires, plug caps).

My suggestion would be to first confirm or deny that #3 has show this symptom too. 
- If it's just #2, then wire and/or plug cap on #2 are suspect as well as carbonation and/or valve lash.
- if #3 has this problem also, test the coil by:
-- swat blue and yellow wires at the points
-- swap plug wires 1&2 and 3&4
-- does the problem move to 1&4?
--- yes - ignition issue, possibly coil
--- no - focus on carbonation and valve lash on the offending cylinders

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Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2009, 09:35:32 AM »
well i took the caps off my soils and compared them. The cap for #2 didnt have any exposed wire, so i snipped it back to expose the wires but i still have the same problem. It seemed to help a little bit. I too my bike for a spin around the block and could feel it jerking back and forth. I disconnected the plug from the coil while my bike was running and the coil was arcing to the wire in the plug. So i feel that i have narrowed down the problem to the wire hopefully. there is exhaust coming from my #2 pipe but its the only one thats poping. I didnt yet try switching around the wires though.

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2009, 09:40:39 AM »
It sounds like you're on a hot line of investigation.  The wire swaps may not be needed as that is really a coil test.  If you are getting good spark, then the coil is fine.  The trick now, sounds like, is to get the spark to go where you want it to go.

Do you think that the spark may be leaking out of a bad wire and arcing to the head instead of being delivered to the spark plug?
Can I have a motorcycle when I get old enough?
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Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2009, 10:23:20 AM »
i have no idea. There was an arc from the coil to the cap about 1/2 to 3/4" long so i think i can safely assume my coil is good. Where do i go to replace the rest of the stuff in between the coil and spark plug?

Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2009, 10:45:03 AM »
I just tried another test in which i put a spark plug on the end of the ingnition wire and let the spark plug arc onto the head and it did. Again it sometimes works and sometimes doeasnt but does anyone know any other plroblems it might be? Anything that would have to do with the engine itself maybe?

Offline mlinder

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2009, 10:46:24 AM »
Did it arc every time?
No.


Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2009, 01:23:31 PM »
i didnt leave it running but im going to try switching out the wire with another one before i switch around the coils. My father was also saying it might be my points but i dont know if i have one or two points? its a 1980 cb650c

Offline mlinder

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 01:33:32 PM »
I dont work on 650's much, but I'm pretty sure you have an electronic ignition.
No.


Offline cormier1989

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2009, 02:40:48 PM »
yea i do. Just push a button and she goes.

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2009, 02:44:09 PM »
yea i do. Just push a button and she goes.

No, I mean you don't have points. You have an electronic ignition. Erm, like a dyna-s, only stock from factory....
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Offline Hush

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Re: why wouldnt my bike go above 55MPH?? help
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2009, 05:03:26 PM »
You have a 650 therefore you have pulse coils down on the righthand side of your motor, these replace the points that the older bikes had, pretty near bullet proof but they can fail.
I think on the 1980 650 you can adjust the gap on the pulse coils, slacken a few small nuts and realign the coils so they are dead centre.
If you dig that deep you may as well pull out the advancer unit that hides behind the pulse coils.
My 650 wouldn't pull over 50mph and it turned out to be the advancer was sticking, you just dissasemble the small unit and lightly grease it esp on the pivot points.
As long as you don't turn the motor over while you have the advancer unit out you wont need to redo your timing.  (also pays to mark with a felt where the advancer was facing before you remove it).
Def sounds like your main problem is up in the coil area though, starting the bike in a dark shed can help track down arcing wires under the tank. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!