Topic: 1979 CB650 Newbie project

[dhinch279]

So I'm a newbie to SOHC.net and I am definately a newbie to the Honda cb650. I just picked up my 1979 Honda cb650 about 2 weeks ago. I wasn't in the market for one but I came across a guy selling a 79 cb650 and a 79 kawasaki kz650 for $500 for both. Needless to say, I bought them both, sold the kz650 to my brother for $250.

The guy I bought it from hooked up a battery to the cb650 and it turned over and sputtered a little bit. Now when I got it home, I did the same thing... but nothing, just a bunch of clicks... so I tore the solenoid apart and cleaned up all the contacts but nothing... next, assumed the solenoid was bad and bypassed it and nothing. Next, I pulled the starter to make sure that it worked. Jumped it and the starter works and spins freely. I put the starter back in and jumped it again and nothing... I am hoping the motor is not locked up, but i'm not sure how it would have been because is never ran since i last heard it turn over... Does anyone have any other advice, maybe I am missing something. Do you think its possible that a bunch of gas has filled the cylinders from a leak in the carbs or something?

Anyway, I will be posting pics of the bike later and keep you guys informed on what I find out.

[dhinch279]

UPDATE: Still don't know why the starter won't actually turn the engine over, but I did find that the engine will turn over, just had to pop start it and it will turn over... still won't start but any progress is better than NO progress.

Got the clutch assembly (cable, handle, etc) back together and on the bike. But now the clutch won't move, in or out... I'll save that one for another day.

The Master cylinder was seized so I took it off... looked inside and there was all kinds of GUNK in there. It was some kind of sand/sawdust mixture that shouldn't be in there. Any one ever seen anything like that? anyway, cleaned it up and ordered a Master cylinder rebuild kit. Til it comes in I have been working on the rest of the brake components (since none of them work... at all). The front caliper is seized (who would have thought?) So thats my next endeavor.

Oh, by the way, does anyone know right off hand how many engine mount bolts there are, because I am pretty sure that this bike is missing one. If there is suppose to be one above the oil filter cover that runs through little steel engine mounts than I better not test drive it too far once I get it running  

[Frankenkit]

you might want to make sure that the starter actually spins.  After that, there might be issues with your starter clutch, so it just spins but doesn't actually turn the engine over.

[dhinch279]

I took the starter off and jumped it directly and it does spin freely and seems to have plenty of torque. Is there a way to check to see if the starter clutch is working like it should?

[manjisann]

With regard to the starter, if you try it and all it does is clicks, that sounds like a low battery issue to me. Is the battery you are using FULLLY charged? It doesn't have to be real low before the solenoid won't fully engage. That is what I would look at at this point.

I will leave the engine mount bolt question for someone who owns an 79, mines and 80 custom so it could be different and I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction.

As for the crud in the MC, thats most likely crystalized brake fluid. I've seen some truely amazing crud come out of these things. If you are having a hard time getting the crap off, you can boil it in water and simple green, this will loosen it enough that a brass wheel or brush can then get it off. Just be warned, the boiling will cause the paint to bubble off. To get all the crud out of the long tube in the MC, I took a piece of aluminum rod, drilled a hole in it and jbwelded a brass cup wheel into it. I can chuck it in the drill press at low speed and really polish that sucker up, works quite well.

And yes, pics are mandatory 

Brandon

[dhinch279]

Here she is... in all her glory. She definately needs some help, but I don't mind a little elbow grease. I've noticed as she sits that she's got a bit of an oil leak, but I will have to figure that out later.




Here is a pic where I think there should be an engine mounting bolt going through, but I could be wrong. If there is suppose to be one let me know right away, There isn't a bolt on either side.

Here is the box of parts that hopefully will save her. I have the parts all laid out on the floor so I couldn't get all of the parts in the pics, but you get the idea... but I'm pretty sure that not all of the carbs are for the cb650... they don't look the same.

[articblue]

And just to make sure you're not requiring your battery to do a lot of extra work, make sure the engine ground to the battery is all shiny and there's a good ground all around the bike.
Oil and grime make terrible conductors of current and can cause undue trouble when starting or figuring out electrical problems.

[checkflag]

subscribed..  I love seeing 79 CB650's here. I am working on mine too as we speak..
Ill be putting my top-end back together this thursday and with that I should be done
as far as my basic mechanics are going. you got yourself a sweet bike there. I am looking
forward to watching its progression. This forum has been a great asset to me. I hope
you find it to be a wealth of information yourself.

[Pinhead]

Here is a pic where I think there should be an engine mounting bolt going through, but I could be wrong. If there is suppose to be one let me know right away, There isn't a bolt on either side.

Yes, there should be a bolt, or more specifically, two bolts and two nuts.

[dhinch279]

Thanks, you guys.

Pinhead - I just went and bought 2 new bolts and nuts for the engine mount and while I was down there I went ahead and check the others... all of them were VERY loose. I am glad I checked them before hopping on the bike once I get it running, if it ever starts that is.

checkflag - I am afraid that this build will be kind of slow moving for a while because I am getting married next month, so unfortunately the old cb650 will get pushed aside for awhile  

articblue - I just cleaned all the contacts that I could see and gave it a jump and still the same problem... but I am confident I will get it figured out once I have a little more time.


And another question, Will a 1981 cb650 parts bike help me out much? I can get one for super cheap thats all there minus the carbs. I'm just pretty sure that the bikes are actually very different...

[checkflag]

And another question, Will a 1981 cb650 parts bike help me out much? I can get one for super cheap thats all there minus the carbs. I'm just pretty sure that the bikes are actually very different...

Thats a good question. Which bikes in the cb650 lineup are most compatible with the 1979? I just ordered a
top end gasket set and the packaging says its for an 80-81 cb650. I hope it works for mine too.

[Frankenkit]

I'd say the 80 would be your closest be engine wise, and that's primarily because they use the same carbs. I don't know, however, about the alternator, etc.  I really have never been deep into a 79.  Soos would be the man to ask.

[Soos]

'79 compared to the rest of the cb650's....


Tank is different(are NOT interchangeable )
Frame is different(are NOT interchangeable )
Seat is different(are NOT interchangeable )
turn signals are different(these... they can be done. '79 to others... 'others to the '79... thats a challenge)

Side covers are NOT interchangeable (the '79 and the rest of the worlds Z model have the best side covers IMO)

Rear rim is a 17" for the '79(and other year cb650 std US bikes) but I think the 17" comstar is unique to the '79, the rest are wire rim, or 16" comstars.


Wiring harness are not interchangeable without re-locating electrical bits.
Air filters are not interchangeable unless you use a '80 and beyond:
rear plastic fender, and airbox for carbs(and then alignment is suspect at best, never tried that setup, I just think it is possible)

carbs are not interchangeable without assistance of offset carb isolators.....

Swingarms...... cb650c and the cb650sc rear swingarm can be modified to fit a '79(ride one on my daily rider) but going the other way, I have heard it will work, but never tried.

carb cables, not interchangeable(without mods)


LOTS more different thats just off the top of my head....



The interchangeable:
rims
forks
tripple trees
electrical bits
engine bits
Heads(if you want to run cb650 CV carbs)
handlebars
RH and LH handlebar controls




If the later year cb650 is cheap... might be worth it.





And none of those 3 sets of carbs look to be cb650 carbs.
Can you take closeup pics of the tops?
I can tell you for sure then.

But if any of them align well with the '79cb650 you have, PLEASE look for the carb ID #'s and let us know!!!!


I'm ALWAYS looking for carb options.
And LOVE my '79's!







Good luck, not too bad for $250 BTW.





l8r

[Soos]

CV motors can run in a non CV frame.....  But you have issues with the airbox.....
Anything can be done with enough time and ingenuity(and a few spare parts).




Good to hear you want to get the '79 going.
They sit taller than the rest of the cb650's.... but it looks more like what the '70's cb750's do.
I like that... but I envy their kick starters.....





l8r

[dhinch279]

I actually have 4 sets of carbs, one was hiding at the bottom of the box. It looks like 2 are Keihin and 2 are Mikuni. I am pretty sure that the ones with the round tops are off of a 78 kaw kz650... the others I have no idea maybe you guys can figure it out.





These are the kaw kz650... at least I think





These I have absolutely no idea what they are off of, and I couldn't find any part #'s on them, and they are in ROUGH shape, with dirt and all kinds of crap in them...

[manjisann]

The ones on top look an aweful lot like the ones that were on my 73 cb500.

Brandon

[dhinch279]

I have looked for the part numbers to post to see if anyone knows them, but I can't find them. Was there a specific spot to look that I am just missing?

[CBGhia]

none of those are right for a 79 650.  The top ones look like cb500/cb550 carbs 9same thing).
The 650 carbs look like this:

[Frankenkit]

you might be further ahead with some of these if they fit.
the stock 650 carbs are seriously lacking in the adjustability department.

[Soos]

those round top ones look to be a '82('83?) cb650 Z model carbs.
can you find any #'s or letters stamped anywhere on those?
Had a set from canada once that looked very similar to those.


Good luck fitting those up!!!




If the fit is close, but not quite a good fit PM me, I may have a solution.





l8

[dhinch279]

Well I just picked up a whole truckload(yes, an actually ford ranger bed... so not quite a man size truckload, but close)
of various cb parts like gauge clusters, body pieces, blinkers and other various stuff... even had abunch of Kaw 650 and 1000 gauge clusters and stuff... all for $50 bucks.

Some old guy that used to build the old japanese bikes was clearing out his old barn of accumulated parts so he gathered it all up in about 4 large boxes
and just wanted them out of his barn, some stuff is even NOS, not much though.

[dhinch279]

Update: I still haven't figured out the starter problem so it still won't turn over  ... BUT i did finally fix the brakes enough to where I could pop start it down a hill and stop in case it took off running on me. So I gave her a run down a steep hill and she sputtered for a few seconds... So I tried it again, but with the choke on and a little starting fluid in each carb, and she ran for a few seconds!... not quite a victory but definately some motivation!  I'll post pics after I get the seat recovered and back on

[manjisann]

Well I just picked up a whole truckload(yes, an actually ford ranger bed... so not quite a man size truckload, but close)
of various cb parts like gauge clusters, body pieces, blinkers and other various stuff... even had abunch of Kaw 650 and 1000 gauge clusters and stuff... all for $50 bucks. 

Some old guy that used to build the old japanese bikes was clearing out his old barn of accumulated parts so he gathered it all up in about 4 large boxes
and just wanted them out of his barn, some stuff is even NOS, not much though.

Why doesn't this kinda stuff ever happen to me??

Update: I still haven't figured out the starter problem so it still won't turn over  ... BUT i did finally fix the brakes enough to where I could pop start it down a hill and stop in case it took off running on me. So I gave her a run down a steep hill and she sputtered for a few seconds... So I tried it again, but with the choke on and a little starting fluid in each carb, and she ran for a few seconds!... not quite a victory but definately some motivation!   I'll post pics after I get the seat recovered and back on

I'd say it's a step in the right direction! Keep on it and you'll have her ship shape before you know it!

Brandon

[mgbgt89]

These are the kaw kz650... at least I think

Those look exactly like the ones on my 82 650SC

[dhinch279]

UPDATE: I finally got it turning over and running(well sort of). It just took a new battery and some cables and ALOT of eletrical connections being cleaned up. Now my starter relay/solenoid took a dump, so I am ordering a new one of those. Anyway, In another thread I have on this great site, I have a pretty major oil leak that I am dealing with now as well. No big deal.

Another problem that I am having is as soon as I start up the bike it will rev really high (like redline) then I shut it down so I don't hurt anything. Has this happen to anyone else. I don't have the throttle open, I am thinkin that the idle screw must be set pretty wide open or something.

Anyway, I finally got her somewhat running! that is exciting enough to keep me motivated!!! 

By the way, can someone tell me what kind of headers I have (these things make redline deafening)

[checkflag]

Those look like the MAC 4 into 1 exhaust. It's what I have on my
CB650.

My guess about you hi-revving is that your carbs are WAY out of sync.
I had that problem as well at first. My carbs got synced, so now she idle's nicely,
but I still have other issues as well. The carbs, IMHO, are the biggest headache so far
for me. I am looking forward to see your progress.. so keep posting pics.

K.

[Frankenkit]

Try turning your fast-idle knob 'til it lightly seats, then coming out a couple turns.  See how it runs/idles from there.  I idle-fiddle, even though I shouldn't really need to.  I just can't leave well enough alone.

[dhinch279]

Those look like the MAC 4 into 1 exhaust. It's what I have on my
CB650.

My guess about you hi-revving is that your carbs are WAY out of sync.
I had that problem as well at first. My carbs got synced, so now she idle's nicely,
but I still have other issues as well. The carbs, IMHO, are the biggest headache so far
for me. I am looking forward to see your progress.. so keep posting pics.

K.

Well, unfortunately about the exhaust I am missing the "into 1" part. The bike just came with the headers, I guess I will have to fab up something.

[dhinch279]

PARTS ORDERED!

I just ordered new pod filters, clutch cable, starter solenoid (hopefully the right one).

I also managed to fit a kawasaki kz750 or 900(?, not too sure) front master cylinder up and it bolts right in place using the cb's brake line and front caliper.  Of course, it says "kawasaki" right on top, but it beats having to rebuild the original one, plus it was in all of the parts that I just bought for $50.

Well, I am excited to get this far with the bike, and I will attempt to keep you guys current with my build, however I will be in Mexico on my Honeymoon next week so I won't be posting. I am getting married this Friday  So pray for me, and if you're not the praying type, have a drink for me, and if you're not the drinking type, then do whatever it is that you do.

[Buber]

These are the kaw kz650... at least I think

Those look exactly like the ones on my 82 650SC

And those are the CV carbs. Mounted on european CB650Z, run greeeeat!