Author Topic: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?  (Read 20077 times)

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Offline jamesv220820

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what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« on: September 23, 2009, 03:02:24 PM »
what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters? on a cb350f


thanks

james
There is nothing to fear but fear itself . . . and trying to restore a cb350f

Offline TwoTired

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 03:08:29 PM »
Most people with pods just dump those poisonous, carcinogenic vapors from the engine into the atmosphere to harm other mammalian life forms.

However, I don't think the 350 F has any sort of recirculation back into the engine anyway.  So, just get one of those filters that plug into the end of the hose so bugs can't crawl into your engine.
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Offline j squared

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 03:15:59 PM »
Most people with pods just dump those poisonous, carcinogenic vapors from the engine into the atmosphere to harm other mammalian life forms.



Hahahahaha thats just funny. Nevermind the plumes of nasty coming from the exhaust, make sure you re-route that blow-by!!

Offline BVCB650

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 03:20:47 PM »
I used the original hose back to the old air filter box. Didn't do anything, just kept the fumes off the bottom of the gas tank.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 04:44:06 PM »
Most people with pods just dump those poisonous, carcinogenic vapors from the engine into the atmosphere to harm other mammalian life forms.



Hahahahaha thats just funny. Nevermind the plumes of nasty coming from the exhaust, make sure you re-route that blow-by!!

If it helps you cope with the guilt, laugh away.  I wonder if you will still laugh when you are 60... if you make it to 60.

...And the exhaust isn't nearly as bad if you haven't tampered with the stock configuration. ::)

But, the attitude presented is interesting.  "Since it pollutes, might as well make it pollute as much as possible." 

No wonder the global warming nuts go into a tizzy, and try to scrap any old vehicle.  ::)

« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 04:53:50 PM by TwoTired »
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 04:49:39 PM »
I wonder if one could rig up a system to distribute the blowby gasses through a restrictor valve (to limit vacuum draw) then to a splitter and into all four carbs (so as to maintain balance) via the sync adapter ports.  Sorta a poor-mans-PCV system.

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 05:06:43 PM »
I wonder if one could rig up a system to distribute the blowby gasses through a restrictor valve (to limit vacuum draw) then to a splitter and into all four carbs (so as to maintain balance) via the sync adapter ports.  Sorta a poor-mans-PCV system.

mystic_1

I like the thought.  But, the sync ports have the vacuum level to draw fuel from the jets.  Any loss of vacuum there will lean the mixture from the carbs.
I think that's too sensitive an insertion point without revamping the carb metering to compensate.

Besides, you don't really want to put negative pressure in the crankcase, as that would actually increase the blowby.

Ahead of the carb inlet is the right place for this function.
I have an old K&N single filter replacement for the stock filter box (out in the part piles).  It has a fitting for the engine breather just between the filter element and the carb inlet plenum.  (Fits 500/550s)

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 05:20:08 PM »
I wonder if one could rig up a system to distribute the blowby gasses through a restrictor valve (to limit vacuum draw) then to a splitter and into all four carbs (so as to maintain balance) via the sync adapter ports.  Sorta a poor-mans-PCV system.

mystic_1

I like the thought.  But, the sync ports have the vacuum level to draw fuel from the jets.  Any loss of vacuum there will lean the mixture from the carbs.
I think that's too sensitive an insertion point without revamping the carb metering to compensate.

Besides, you don't really want to put negative pressure in the crankcase, as that would actually increase the blowby.

Ahead of the carb inlet is the right place for this function.
I have an old K&N single filter replacement for the stock filter box (out in the part piles).  It has a fitting for the engine breather just between the filter element and the carb inlet plenum.  (Fits 500/550s)




I know, the sync ports are down stream from, and quite close to, the venturi area so they're under quite a bit of vacuum, which is why I suggested a restrictor of some sort just like you use with sync gauges.  I guess you'd want individual restrictors, though, so you could cancel out any variations? That starts to get pretty damn complicated and if it was really a good idea someone would have come up with it by now I suppose lol.

I guess you could plumb little lines into each pod filter but once again, too complicated unless you're going for the Rube Goldberg look.

mystic_1
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Offline jeepster

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 06:35:18 PM »
Most people with pods just dump those poisonous, carcinogenic vapors from the engine into the atmosphere to harm other mammalian life forms.



Hahahahaha thats just funny. Nevermind the plumes of nasty coming from the exhaust, make sure you re-route that blow-by!!

J squared, That's a pretty bad ass face guard you have there...where'd you get it?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 06:37:20 PM by jeepster »
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Offline j squared

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 06:40:58 AM »
Most people with pods just dump those poisonous, carcinogenic vapors from the engine into the atmosphere to harm other mammalian life forms.



Hahahahaha thats just funny. Nevermind the plumes of nasty coming from the exhaust, make sure you re-route that blow-by!!

If it helps you cope with the guilt, laugh away.  I wonder if you will still laugh when you are 60... if you make it to 60.

...And the exhaust isn't nearly as bad if you haven't tampered with the stock configuration. ::)

But, the attitude presented is interesting.  "Since it pollutes, might as well make it pollute as much as possible."  

No wonder the global warming nuts go into a tizzy, and try to scrap any old vehicle.  ::)



There is no way possible that blow-by gasses contain as high a level of pollutants as even the stock exhaust with no catalysts.  We are talking about fossil fuels broken down into hydrocarbons vs. crankcase blow-by and if you believe the workshop manual about the 20-40% claim, more power to you :)

The real question is, should one connect the breather tube to the intake with a catch can in between in order to pull vacuum and not pressurize the crankcase.  I think I might try something like this and see how it works out, maybe work with the lower pressure around the motorcycle when riding to create the vacuum.

Oh, I forgot:   ::)

Offline j squared

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 06:43:21 AM »
Most people with pods just dump those poisonous, carcinogenic vapors from the engine into the atmosphere to harm other mammalian life forms.



Hahahahaha thats just funny. Nevermind the plumes of nasty coming from the exhaust, make sure you re-route that blow-by!!

J squared, That's a pretty bad ass face guard you have there...where'd you get it?

Thanks man, it took forever to track down but I found a few on ebay not too long ago and scooped em up! MFP style, baby.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 02:02:04 PM »
There is no way possible that blow-by gasses contain as high a level of pollutants as even the stock exhaust with no catalysts.  We are talking about fossil fuels broken down into hydrocarbons vs. crankcase blow-by and if you believe the workshop manual about the 20-40% claim, more power to you :)

It's nice to see the chemistry so thoroughly researched. ::)

The Hydrocarbons are the fuel that is supposed to be burned in the combustion chamber.
Blowby contains these hydrocarbons (unburned) as well as other crankcase vapors (also hydrocarbons).

What comes out the exhaust has, at least been subjected to oxidation in the combustion chamber.  What comes out the engine breather has not.
What comes out the exhaust pipe is directly subject the A/F mixture fed to it.
What comes out the engine breather is related to the efficiency of the piston ring seal on an engine made in the 70's.  Are your rings sealing as new?  Blowby increases with the wear of the rings.

Besides speculation to support your argument, what data do you have that disproves/refutes the workshop manual's claim of 20-40% ?
Positive crankcase ventilation/recirculation was one of the first devices to reduce pollution.  It's been around since the 60s and is still used today for a specific reason, it is a great benefit/improvement.  It is also of benefit to the engine itself, as it helps rid the crankcase of water vapor and acids.

If you really wish to know, then do your research.  If you just want to pooh-pooh a known beneficial improvement to internal combustion engines because it doesn't suit your style, it says more about you than you can imagine.


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Offline j squared

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2009, 02:33:02 PM »
Im starting to wonder if you are able to say something without being completely condescending.  I know its the Internet, but c'mon!! At any rate, I think of it akin to second-hand smoke, in that the base content might be slightly worse (assuming, of course, youre using a filter there and not a catch can to collect oil vapor), but the overall amounts are so much lower than that coming from the exhaust that the harm done in the end is much, much lower.

On a side note, how can you say the blow-by gasses havent been subject to oxidation?  The hydrocarbons there came from the combustion chamber, and unless you have such low compression that the bike wouldnt run, would have had to have been subjected to the ignition, same as the exhaust.  Whats more, they would be influenced by the AFR's as well. A ratio is a ratio, before or after combustion.

But thanks for the advice.  Ill go ahead run my bike sans baffles and breather tube because I hate the Earth.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 02:37:10 PM by j squared »

Offline BVCB650

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2009, 04:59:50 PM »
Need some thick skin for sure. Some folks have security issues. Hang in there.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2009, 06:46:13 PM »
Im starting to wonder if you are able to say something without being completely condescending.
It's only seems condescending if you think you know what you are talking about but really don't.
So ok then,  I'll be direct.  You are talking out your ass, with only conjecture to back it up.  No data, No facts, just opinion, and your own feeble rationalization.
(Is that better?  I would think not, but maybe that's better than perceived condescension.)  ???

At any rate, I think of it akin to second-hand smoke, in that the base content might be slightly worse (assuming, of course, youre using a filter there and not a catch can to collect oil vapor), but the overall amounts are so much lower than that coming from the exhaust that the harm done in the end is much, much lower.
You are rationalizing, not analyzing.  You are also wrong.  Have you done no research about crankcase ventilation devices?   This device began implementation in the 60's and is still put on production machines to this day.  Do you really believe such a device would have remained in vehicles for this long if it wasn't a significant asset?  Are you afraid to research because you fear the outcome won't support you position?

On a side note, how can you say the blow-by gasses havent been subject to oxidation?  
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you really do want to know.  Here is the explanation I really hope you will find valuable.
It is due to the nature of combustion within the cylinder, and the flame front travel.  Combustion begins at the spark plug and the flame front travels out ward from there as the cylinder pressure builds.  That portion of the charge nearest piston edge and closest to the cylinder wall gets high pressure well before the mixture there can begin to combust.  In fact, this pressure is often relied on to help put pressure on the rings toward the cylinder.  (research a Dykes ring which takes full advantage of cylinder pressure to provide a combustion seal.)  Combustion does not take place on the cylinder walls during the combustion stroke as the temp there is too cold to support it.  (You really don't want the cylinder walls to be at 1500F anyway, as any film of oil there would would cease to be of value.)  Further, the ring seal process is not instantaneous, and the unburned fuel charge in the corner of the chamber where piston meets cylinder wall seeps past the rings into the crankcase.  As the engine ages and the ring seal get worse (Piston groove wear, ring face wear, and cylinder wall wear), so does the amount of unburnt blowby combustion chamber gasses, that never have the chance to get burned.

The hydrocarbons there came from the combustion chamber, and unless you have such low compression that the bike wouldnt run, would have had to have been subjected to the ignition, same as the exhaust. Whats more, they would be influenced by the AFR's as well. A ratio is a ratio, before or after combustion.
See above why this rationalization is in fact fiction.

But thanks for the advice.  Ill go ahead run my bike sans baffles and breather tube because I hate the Earth.
That's is the most sense you've made thus far, and explains a quite a lot about your arguments/position.  I can only assume youth is to blame.  ;D

http://babyboomeradvisorclub.com/2009/08/26/baby-boomer-thoughts-by-craig-ferguson-youtube/



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Offline BVCB650

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2009, 06:50:51 PM »
Now see, it isn't neccesarily the message that is so wrong at times, but the delivery.  The harshness could use a little toning down IMHO.
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Offline sparty

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2009, 07:04:51 PM »
Here is what I did.

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Offline 750Caferider

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2009, 07:18:49 PM »
I used to think like jsquared, and I believe that he has the right to his own opinion and to ride and modify his bike as he sees fit.  But the older I get the more I think like TwoTired...  I want my engine to be as efficient as possible and as clean burning as possible.  I was around when we drove on leaded gas, I also remember getting headaches from everyone running their engine while filling up and in heavy traffic.  I also remember acid rain and I know the earth's atmosphere and resources aren't improving.  I totally respect both opinions but I have to side with TwoTired, the less responsible we are the less respect we get.  The day will come when riding gas powered vehicles will end, I'm for making it as far away as possible!

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Offline 333

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2009, 07:22:42 PM »
I always thought that the issue was "unburnt" hydrocarbons, coming off the heated oil in the crankcase that should be routed back through the intake so they could then be burned.  But what do I know.

I do take exception to new members, with only double digit posts, getting into arguments with members that are true experts (No, I'm not brown-nosing, Lloyd!).  This has happened a couple times in as many weeks.  I would suggest to the newbies that they hang out for a couple hundred posts before they start any heavy confrontations.  It's one thing to give an opinion, but clearly way more to dispute someone else's.  Certainly Lloyd and I have had deep discussions, but I never went as far as to say he (or any one else) was wrong.  (Well, maybe in the political threads, but they were deleted, so that doesn't count ;D ;D)

As for an idea on topic, how about making some sort of manifold out of tubing (1/4"), going into each pod to recirculate these gases?
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Offline Gordon

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 09:17:47 PM »
Im starting to wonder if you are able to say something without being completely condescending.

He's not.  Trust me.  It's a sickness, though, so don't blame him. 

Offline BVCB650

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2009, 05:28:08 AM »
I used to think like jsquared, and I believe that he has the right to his own opinion and to ride and modify his bike as he sees fit.  But the older I get the more I think like TwoTired...  I want my engine to be as efficient as possible and as clean burning as possible.  I was around when we drove on leaded gas, I also remember getting headaches from everyone running their engine while filling up and in heavy traffic.  I also remember acid rain and I know the earth's atmosphere and resources aren't improving.  I totally respect both opinions but I have to side with TwoTired, the less responsible we are the less respect we get.  The day will come when riding gas powered vehicles will end, I'm for making it as far away as possible!

Cheers!




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Offline BVCB650

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2009, 05:31:21 AM »
I always thought that the issue was "unburnt" hydrocarbons, coming off the heated oil in the crankcase that should be routed back through the intake so they could then be burned. But what do I know.

I do take exception to new members, with only double digit posts, getting into arguments with members that are true experts (No, I'm not brown-nosing, Lloyd!).  This has happened a couple times in as many weeks.  I would suggest to the newbies that they hang out for a couple hundred posts before they start any heavy confrontations.  It's one thing to give an opinion, but clearly way more to dispute someone else's.  Certainly Lloyd and I have had deep discussions, but I never went as far as to say he (or any one else) was wrong.  (Well, maybe in the political threads, but they were deleted, so that doesn't count ;D ;D)

As for an idea on topic, how about making some sort of manifold out of tubing (1/4"), going into each pod to recirculate these gases?





Then there are newbs on here that are older than Methuselah and have forgotten more than some will ever know. Just saying......
1979 CB650, 25K miles, recently refurbished

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2009, 06:19:56 AM »
hey , too-tired, i just went a and checked out the baby-boomers link, just my sense of humour, i am 50 in a weeks time, and that was funny...i been in the motor game since i was a sperm or so it seems, and my guess {as a total master of condescention} is that you were actually restrained.....these motors were ahead of their time without doubt in fact the bikes were to a certain extent.... what with a real working disc brake an all that!!!! The blow by gasses and "windage" should be recirculated into the air filter box, ergo, technically, to be in keeping with what mr. honda intended a four way split going one to each pod would seem to be the logical solution and a tidy and discreet build of this would be the way to gain maximum street cred? win friends and influence folk? or if your really really young and dont care, take the breather pipe, and extend it a couple of feet, so when you get on your bike, first you thread it up your trouser leg , and using a catheter insert the open end into your urethra.......before starting bike.....WARNING reving over 200RPM may cause these alleged "non toxic/not too harmfull gasses" too severly restrict ones ability to procreate.

Offline Tretnine

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2009, 06:33:30 AM »
I have to agree that the blow by can't be horrid. Not by comparison to many things. You'll probably do worse spilling gas to fill your lawnmower. Anyway, the point is taken about trying to be as clean as possible. I think we do a piss poor job taking care of the planet as is. I'd imagine having one cylinder not firing would be worse, unburned fuel heated and vaporized then shot into the atmosphere.
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Offline BVCB650

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Re: what do you with the breather hose when you install pod filters?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 06:46:31 AM »
All this clean jazz is great as long as you aren't a hypocrite and do it in ALL walks of your everyday life. Let me give examples....On Jay Leno, he is real proud of his Ford electric car. He says the race only costs 1 cent of energy. They do this lame driving course and ping pong balls and such get shot out. In the Al Michales vs Bob Costa event, ping pong balls were ran over and presumably not reused. What a waste. In another example, our town is all about tree huggers. Many try to be like Aspen so they can "be" somebody too. During last night's homecoming bonfire, it was announced that is year, to light the pallets, more gas was going to be used to try to create a mushroom fireball. They were successful lighting off 10-12 gallons of gasoline. I'm sure missile defense went on alert. Hypocrites.
1979 CB650, 25K miles, recently refurbished