Author Topic: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s  (Read 82190 times)

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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2009, 04:26:58 PM »
Okay, part 2 and final list of things removed/disconnected:

Oil filer with o-ring
Brake pedal
Oil Hose (res. to engine)
Unplug yellow and blue timing wires
Detach engine end of return oil hose
Right and Left crash bars
Detach oil overflow hose from top of cylinder head
Front left/alternator crankcase cover
...and then wiring cable to solenoid, nuetral switch wire, another single wire with snap connect, and unplug big white connector
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 08:17:18 AM by ron.cieri.313 »
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Offline Henning

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2009, 06:03:18 PM »
Allegorically, engine removal is like going to the beach on a hot sweaty day. At home it seems like a really good idea. When you get to the beach, the air is warm, the sand is pleasant, and you know you did the right thing. But, as you near the water, the cool ocean breeze hits you, the cold ocean chills your feet, and you begin to have doubts. Then you begin to think you’re actually quite comfortable just as you are. The plunge into the surf numbs your body, and is far from pleasant. But, after some time, you start enjoying it, and know you did the right thing.

So, get that lump out, you will feel better afterwards.  ;)

On a more practical note, right side you need to remove the front triangular engine mount. Hard to see, there’s a right rear triangular mount that also needs to go, along with the brake light switch, as well as the long bolt for the footpegs. Like I wrote earlier, get a jack of some sorts under the sump with a block of soft wood, it will make removing those long bolts easier.
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2009, 07:49:53 PM »
Too funny, I was so looking at that beastie tonight and getting cold feet...thinking to myself, "my God, what have i done?"...ur spot on.

Yes, i was wondering about those brackets...so they gotta too?...look like they'd be in the way.  I also removed the chain entirely (going to replace it anyways) and the oil tank.

Also the timing plate???...looks like i need to remove the top screw so it will stay with the bottom half. 

I'm going to get a 2 foot by 4 foot piece of plywood to lay on top of gym mats when all folded are about as high as the lower frame bars...I need to solicit my neighbor for help if he's around tomorrow or wait for a buddy at work...young and strong and works on cars...bribing with pizza and pepsi but might not be able to make till mid week...

...so my feet keep colder ::)
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2009, 10:27:52 AM »
Prepped and ready to pop this sucker out...just waiting for my buddy to come over on Wednesday to help me lift it out...only the bottom two long bolts are still in and I've already loosened them...keep your fingers x'd for me.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 08:17:40 AM by ron.cieri.313 »
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2009, 06:38:31 AM »
And here it is!...



I took out the bolt on the upper side and then turned her over on a crate as Henning suggested...works great.  I was able to get the front and back row of bolts with 10mm heads out but not the bigger 12mm bolts...well, i was able to get one of the out...hoping a bigger rachet handle will help me get more leverage and do the trick




« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 08:18:47 AM by ron.cieri.313 »
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Offline 754

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2009, 09:46:01 AM »
Hope you used the milk crate beside the bike when you pulled it out..

 I would make a felt pen mark across the point plate and case lug, then pull all that off, advancer should be serviced.

 Unless you are popping it back together right away I would remove the clutch before you split cases,  it should be checked over.

 Just make sure all bolts are out before you split the cases..
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Offline Henning

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2009, 03:11:03 PM »
Great! You're now ready to get into the interesting stuff. I'll continue to follow the thread and help where I can, but hopefully others will chip in from now on. For example with gearbox specific stuff - I've been there, but it's too long ago.

Good luck!
71 or thereabouts 750 K1 - this one should have been put down

Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2009, 06:19:52 PM »
Yes, please don't abandom me as I just get to the "interesting stuff"...that's like the Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times"...just kidding, thanks for all your help to-date.

I'm really hoping I see something obvious..when I cleaned the oil pan searching for my oil flow problem, I did see metal shavings in the screen...so, me thinks I should say some substantial wear somewhere in there.

These larger bolts are a pain on the underside...still have to get a larger socket handle for better leverage....any suggestions, please let me know.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2009, 06:33:35 PM »
Yes, please don't abandom me as I just get to the "interesting stuff"...that's like the Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times"...just kidding, thanks for all your help to-date.

I'm really hoping I see something obvious..when I cleaned the oil pan searching for my oil flow problem, I did see metal shavings in the screen...so, me thinks I should say some substantial wear somewhere in there.

These larger bolts are a pain on the underside...still have to get a larger socket handle for better leverage....any suggestions, please let me know.
Those "larger bolts" are your cranckshaft main bearing bolts. They are hardened steel, with a lot of torque. I think they should be loosened in an order, see your manual. Certainly they need to be tightened in a order like head nuts. With a torque wrench. Treat them with respect.

Clean them before reassembly and use assembly lube or anti-seize lube on them. Oh yeah, and a torque wrench.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline 754

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2009, 06:54:22 PM »
Get a flexhead or breaker bar, they are longer than a hand ratchet..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2009, 06:41:30 AM »
Thanks 7...I will have to make a Harbor Freight run.  Have rebuilt the clutch prior to this (several times) so that should be good to go...will have to check out the advancer unit...I can't remember what symptoms I would see if this wasn't working properly but the bikes was running very well except for this damn tranny issue prior to tear down.  I'm also going to work on the rear of the bike...change back tire, brake pads, chain, sprockets)

Just need to finish the job here first!...l8r...ron
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2009, 07:02:45 PM »
Thank you breaker bar...harbor freight...$20...all bolts large and small off...

...damn thing won't even budge?!

...been scratching around the seam, spraying with seafoam, hitting with a rubber mallet...nothing.

I used the diagram in the service to make sure i got all the upper and lower bolts...odds on I missed one or just keeping scratching and clawing at the seam?
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2009, 07:36:30 PM »
You shouldn't have much trouble splitting the cases, if all the bolts are out. There's 25, 26 or 27 6mm and 8mm bolts, depending on year, and 10 8mm nuts with washers. Don't miss the one in the starter area, and three across the back, and two to four in the countershaft area (depending on year, again).

Also, remove the gearshift arm and the mainshaft bearing retainer. Finally, this picture should help with a pry point: it won't take bu a single jerk on this shaft, levering against the bottom case, to pop them apart if all bolts are out. The gasket compound (sealant) doesn't have a lot of grip.
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2009, 07:04:29 AM »
Thanks HOndaMan...I'm thinking there must be bolts left...I definitely have the 10 8mm...the one in the starter area and the 3 across the back...I'm going to take and inventory of the others.  I have the bearing holder off and i think i took four bolt off in the countershaft area...I'm going to flip the engine back so I see the top again and double check.

I'm heading up to our cottage to winterize it so unfortunately this will have to a wait a few days...darn, so want to get this off.
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Offline nobody

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2009, 04:04:37 PM »
Got my engine out with the help of a neighbor today. This is it after about half an hour of scrubbing, you could definitely tell that I rode that bike in rain or shine. I'll probably start tearing into it tomorrow night.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 04:36:08 PM by mgab »
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2009, 05:47:20 PM »
Please keep note of where all the screws come from...I still can't find the one I may have missed.
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2009, 07:50:37 PM »
Split!!!


« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 08:20:54 AM by ron.cieri.313 »
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2009, 08:47:35 AM »
Thanks...just some follow up on how I got them apart...one, the time plate has to come off (stupid me!) because of the advancer unit behind it...someone pointed this out and I stubbornly overlooked it....secondly, my engine had been painted which made the two halves stick...I used a putty knife and hammer all around the crease to break the seal and she came apart fine.  I did have all the bolts out properly.

Now, questions...where do I get new shifts forks?...the middle one looks worn.  I need to spend more time examining the innards but that looks like the most obvious problem.
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2009, 08:56:02 AM »
Okay, looks like a bunch are available on ebay...just have to figure out which ones will work.
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Offline nobody

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2009, 09:30:35 AM »
I fell behind a little bit, still have yet to even do anything beyond clean the engine as it sits on my bench. I need to step it up and actually tear into it soon. I picked up another k bottom end that I'm told is in good condition, I'll scavenge parts from there.

Ron, thank you for taking so many pictures and being so thorough, this is going to help me a lot. Could you take a close up of the wear so I can know what to look for on mine?
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2009, 10:39:32 AM »
Will do...I need to remove them so I can examine and photo better but on the tip of the middle one (the long tip of the center fork), the metal is uneven and well, worn away...it has a sheen to it different then the rest of the fork...but like i said...I will remove hopefully saturday.  Also, I'm thinking of selecting and ordering a set off of ebay so I can see exactly what it should look like (assuming the set I buy looks like its suppose to).

Any other suggestions on troubleshooting my problem now that the cases are split are welcome, please!...thx, ron.
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Offline Henning

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2009, 11:52:02 AM »
Soooo, a quick refresher for myself and anybody new to the thread. You've split the cases because of a hard shifting gearbox. It's not isolated to one gear, it's all the gears. I seem to remember from your earlier thread that you spent a lot of effort diagnosing lack of oil to the clutch. But the real problem was hard shifting, not the clutch.

Did I get it right?
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Offline ron.cieri.313

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2009, 12:04:24 PM »
Basically that's it...in the end, I figured out that I could not shift into second gear...neutral to first, yes..first to second, no...it just felt like another neutral...then from "there" into 3rd, no problem and up to fifth.  Neutral to first also was quite clunky.  I believe I created the problem when attempting wot plug chops during rejetting and burned up the oil, creating a blockage which I fixed after the damage was done.

Do you know what shift fork I should be looking at in particular?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2009, 12:43:20 PM »
Basically that's it...in the end, I figured out that I could not shift into second gear...neutral to first, yes..first to second, no...it just felt like another neutral...then from "there" into 3rd, no problem and up to fifth.  Neutral to first also was quite clunky.  I believe I created the problem when attempting wot plug chops during rejetting and burned up the oil, creating a blockage which I fixed after the damage was done.

Do you know what shift fork I should be looking at in particular?
Its generally only the center fork that offends. It hooks into a double gear on the mainshaft known as 2nd/3rd gear in the fiches. And yes you would see an odd isolated curved wear mark in the center roughly of one or both of the ends of the fork. The ends are built up and machined down to fit into the groove of the 2/3 gear. Do not mistake the wear mark for what are often simple machining marks. I've seen forks where the end pieces are fairly smooth or have retained machining marks, either way.

Check the groove oin the 2/3 gear also. Shame to repalce the fork only if that groove is worn you'll be back in trouble after a while.

And all this is from my memory, personal experience as well as other bikes, but its been a while.

Wait for confirm from other sources.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline Henning

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Re: Splitting the cases on my CB750...first of many ?'s
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2009, 03:13:00 PM »
Right! Sounds like there are two issues here. Hard shifting is 99.9% clutch related, most obvious with the nasty clunk you get when engaging first from neutral. It can be sticky friction plates, warped friction plates, warped clutch plates, bad springs or any combination of these. What happens is that the clutch drags, puts pressure on the gearbox, and makes it hard to rotate the gear shifter drum. Plenty of advice on the forum on how to deal with the clutch.

If you cannot get second under any circumstances, it's a gearbox problem (so you did right to tear it apart!). MCRider points out you need to look at the middle gearbox fork, and this is a common issue. I had this problem in the dawn of time, on a 30k mile bike, but it was pretty obvious. Started in the morning, drove quietly up the hill to the road in second, and it started going clack clack from the gearbox, and I could feel the jerkiness as the dogs popped in and out of second gear. Basically I parked the bike and pulled the motor. I replaced the fork only, and rode the bike for another 25k hard miles with no problems. But, like MCRider says, it's a serious downer if you replace the fork and the problem doesn't go away.

Rambling aside, what can you do? The manual is useless, unless you have access to several thousand bucks worth of micrometers, and the budget to back up the measurements. The illustrations can be useful though. It's a freebie to do a thorough inspection of the gears, forks and shifter drum. Check the gears for any damaged teeth. They should all be OK. Check the dogs (round bits that grab into neibouring gears) for damage or rounded edges. The edges will more than likely be rounded, but it's hard to say from a distance how much is acceptable. Rotate the shifter drum and get a feel of how it works. Push the shifter forks back and forth to get a feel of how much play there is. Make a qualified judgement from there (now there's a disclaimer ;D).
71 or thereabouts 750 K1 - this one should have been put down