Topic: crank/engine balancing

[paddy paul]

 Has any body had there engine balanced and blueprinted? and was it worth the cost, I was just wondering because all the car engines that I have rebuilt  I always have done it, but I have never heard of anyone  on the site mentioning it or having it done....  just wondering

[mick7504]

Don't know about blueprinting but APE do some magic stuff for the SOHC 750.
http://cbrzone.com/cranksrods.html

[MCRider]

Has any body had there engine balanced and blueprinted? and was it worth the cost, I was just wondering because all the car engines that I have rebuilt  I always have done it, but I have never heard of anyone  on the site mentioning it or having it done....  just wondering

Jeeze Louise. Lots of balancing going on here. Blueprinting is kind of a car term, not sure of the exact crossover to motorcycle engines, but if you simply mean, taking extra care to see that everything is in spec. lots of that going on too.

For balancing try APE    http://aperaceparts.com/crankwork.html    that's who dun mine. Many others do too. CycleX, Dynoman, etc.

[MRieck]

I have done a lot of it done. Rods, cranks, charging rotors, clutch baskets. I also rework/ shot peen/ balance rods.

[wannabridin]

mike is getting my business whenever i get some money :-D  i hear the difference is incredible even over stock!!

i'm going to give him my crank and rods to balance along with my head.  and he'll be shot peening my rods as well, then i'll prolly have those cryo'd too.  it won't be going in an 836, but i want to build it up so i'll have to do minimal work when that day comes :-D  plus, it's cool for bragging rights, haha!!!

[Sam Green Racing]

Ya can still brag about it without having it done, people can't see inside an engine.

Sam.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Paddy Paul,

Come over to Omnicare/APS at 2329 N Grand on Tue, Thur, Fri the next few weeks. Call me a day ahead and I'll load some of that stuff up and bring it with me so you can see what's possible. Then call me so we can arrange a good time. Or, I get off at 7pm before heading back to the Springs. Closed door facility.

Jerry
719-963-3080

[MCRider]

Ya can still brag about it without having it done, people can't see inside an engine.

Sam.

Shhhh, don't let that out!   

Actually, I'm keeping a "portfolio" of my receipts.   Still doesn't prove that's what's actually in the engine in question, I guess.

I'll need a portfolio of drag strip times.

The world is full of BS. Nothing new under the sun.

[paddy paul]

Jerry, I will give you a call this weekend, if that works for you....

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Yes, that's fine. I'll be working both days until 6pm here in the Springs. If you get my voice mail just leave a message and I'll get back to you.

[jcarthel]

I was wondering why balance a SOHC four?  Seeing videos of coins balanced on crankcases and a glass of water calm on the seat while the motor is reving is proof enough to me that Honda did it right the first time.  I would spend my money somewhere else like on a stroker kit or a cam with higher lift and more duration.  Just my nickel's worth though.

Justin in Texas

[MCRider]

I was wondering why balance a SOHC four?  Seeing videos of coins balanced on crankcases and a glass of water calm on the seat while the motor is reving is proof enough to me that Honda did it right the first time.  I would spend my money somewhere else like on a stroker kit or a cam with higher lift and more duration.  Just my nickel's worth though.

Justin in Texas

They are balanced well enough for production work. But for performance work they've got a lot of room for improvement. Increasing power from stock will emphasize the lack of balance quickly.

I suggest any improvement which requires removal of the crankshaft (cam chain, rods, etc.) is the opportuinity to get it balanced. Also, lightening is a high priority and such work would require balancing at the same time.

[kos]

An engine is an engine. Any 4 stroke engine can benefit from "blueprinting".

Matching rod weights, piston weights on a four.... can help even in a stock, non hopped up engine. Crank lightening with re balance after material is removed also is a great help. Some will lighten and then match weights of rocker arms. When porting is done, airflow experts will try make each port flow the same rate as to allow each cylinder to produce the same amount of power... as to keep engine in balance.  These mods, while look easy... are the most time consuming and thus cost money.  Most street guys skip these as they think  "eye candy" parts will make all the difference.

I always wanted to have a "shoot out" with some of the so called engine "wizards" out there on how much each tuner could make over stock with out buying any parts. This would be a skills test where each tuner could, port heads, do valve jobs, mill heads and or cylinders. use thinner gaskets, reduce oil seal spring tension/piston ring tension, change bore/piston clearances, open up oil pump clearances, re-degree cams, etc and then run em on the dyno.  Most HP wins.

Any takers?

KOS

[MRieck]

An engine is an engine. Any 4 stroke engine can benefit from "blueprinting".

Matching rod weights, piston weights on a four.... can help even in a stock, non hopped up engine. Crank lightening with re balance after material is removed also is a great help. Some will lighten and then match weights of rocker arms. When porting is done, airflow experts will try make each port flow the same rate as to allow each cylinder to produce the same amount of power... as to keep engine in balance.  These mods, while look easy... are the most time consuming and thus cost money.  Most street guys skip these as they think  "eye candy" parts will make all the difference.

I always wanted to have a "shoot out" with some of the so called engine "wizards" out there on how much each tuner could make over stock with out buying any parts. This would be a skills test where each tuner could, port heads, do valve jobs, mill heads and or cylinders. use thinner gaskets, reduce oil seal spring tension/piston ring tension, change bore/piston clearances, open up oil pump clearances, re-degree cams, etc and then run em on the dyno.  Most HP wins.

Any takers?

KOS

You're funny Mark. What do you win, how much cheating is allowed and how you gonna get these bikes on the same dyno? (not that anybody would fool around with correction factors etc) The minute you start porting, decking and milling it isn't stock. I helped on one supersport 600 years ago and we changed the valve seats for higher ones to up compression. We also mixed connecting rod bearings to get a little more squish etc etc.

[MCRider]

I would never enter a competition against the likes of you guys. But KOS...

Nice post! I've always thought a well prepared stock motor would be a very sweet ride. I am one of the few people likely who ever had a ported head on a stock displacement motor, pistons, cams etc. (CB750) The result of putting a bike together to ride from parts in the dust bin. The head had all the fins shaved off for drag racing purposes, and was not suitable to sell to a customer for the street.

That thing was so sweet!

Most of us have no need or use for anything more than 80hp on the street, for sport or touring. Even 70hp is enough. Better to put the time and effort and $$ into just making it nice and beefing up the suspension and pay for a couple of days at a riding school.

Having said that, I'm still building something I hope is more than i need.   

[Sam Green Racing]

Ya c ;)an still brag about it without having it done, people can't see inside an engine.

Sam.

Shhhh, don't let that out!   

Actually, I'm keeping a "portfolio" of my receipts.   Still doesn't prove that's what's actually in the engine in question, I guess.

I'll need a portfolio of drag strip times.

The world is full of BS. Nothing new under the sun.

That's reason I'm going to race the auto as it is (stock) before It gets tuned, that way, we'll know how much diference the tune up made to the bikes strip performance.

Sam.

[MCRider]

Ya c ;)an still brag about it without having it done, people can't see inside an engine.

Sam.

Shhhh, don't let that out!   

Actually, I'm keeping a "portfolio" of my receipts.   Still doesn't prove that's what's actually in the engine in question, I guess.

I'll need a portfolio of drag strip times.

The world is full of BS. Nothing new under the sun.

That's reason I'm going to race the auto as it is (stock) before It gets tuned, that way, we'll know how much diference the tune up made to the bikes strip performance.

Sam.

That would be cool to know.
On a side note. For the short time I spent in my youth at the Tucson Intl Dragway, there was a 57 Chevy Nomad, the "Draggin Wagon" racing in brackets. It always won the show as it was dead nuts consistent with a 2 speed Powerglide automatic. He'd just stand on it and every run was within hundredths of each other.

I would like to do some more bracket racing before I die. Its on my bucket list.   

[kos]

Oh ya...I forgot. We all have to be in the same place at same day to do this.   You only have 24 hours to do the work and then we run the engine on your dyno of choice.


Simple.



Cheating....What has that got to do with it?



KOS

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

24 hours??!!  It's taken me 3 years to get and pay for all the fancy parts 

[MRieck]

Oh ya...I forgot. We all have to be in the same place at same day to do this.   You only have 24 hours to do the work and then we run the engine on your dyno of choice.


Simple.



Cheating....What has that got to do with it?



KOS

Nothing. It was a joke. I don't know ...are you mocking people with the "so called engine wizards out there" statement?

[kos]

No, I am not.
KOS