Author Topic: U.S. Goverment  (Read 6490 times)

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Offline JS550

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U.S. Goverment
« on: February 05, 2010, 07:56:29 AM »
I always read the posts on here about the government and it seems that most, like myself are a bit fed up with the whole thing. I believe it is way off from what it was/is supposed to be. I had an idea, what if everyone just stopped voting? They always say "vote, be heard." Well, I've voted for almost 20 years, and I gotta say, I don't feel that it matters. If you're not a bank or some other corporation, you don't have a voice. What would happen if zero people voted in the next presidential election? Would it make a statement? I've always went with the lesser of two evils voting system, and that has failed me. Neither party is worth a sh!t. Its more like, you want it in your mouth or ass. I also don't believe that, for the most part, the government really doesnt represent me or the average citizen. So what about " No taxation without representation"? I'm not saying that I don't want to pay taxes at all. I understand that its a necessary thing, but, shouldn't I feel represented in Washington? Its just ridiculous and outta control. Im not looking to argue, just venting my frustrations. And I believe that I have the right to call the government out, as a citizen. Yes, this is a great place and no I will not go somewhere else if I dont like it.
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Offline tortelvis

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2010, 10:14:59 AM »
And what if they had a war and nobody came? :)

Offline myhondas

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2010, 12:03:36 PM »
545 vs 300,000,000

Politicians are the only people in the world  who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever  wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if  all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have  inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget.  The president does.

You and I don't have the  Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of  Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress  does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You  and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve  Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one  president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human  beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally,  and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague  this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve  Board because that problem was created by the  Congress.  In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty  to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central  bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a  sound reason.. They have no legal authority.  They have no  ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one  cotton-picking thing.  I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash.  The  politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what  the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility  to determine  how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy  convincing you that what they did is not their fault.   They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What  separates a politician from a normal human being is an  excessive amount of gall..  No normal  human being would have the gall of a  Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating  deficits..  The president can only propose a budget.   He cannot force the Congress to accept  it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the  land, gives sole responsibility to the House of  Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes.  Who is the speaker of the House?   Nancy Pelosi.  She is  the leader of the majority party.  She and  fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want.  If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if  they agree  to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million can  not replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of  incompetence and irresponsibility.  I can't think of a  single domestic problem  that is not traceable directly to those 545 people.  When you fully  grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal  government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to  exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it  unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in  the red ..

If the Army &Marines are in  IRAQ ,  it's because they want them in IRAQ

If they do not  receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available  to the people, it's because they want it that way.****

There are no  insoluble government problems..

Do not let these 545 people shift  the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can  abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to  regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can  take this power.  Above all, do not let them con you into  the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the  economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing  what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they  alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the  power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the  people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the  gumption to manage their own employees.

We should vote all of  them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel  Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have  read it.......... Is up to you.


This might be funny if it weren't so darned true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:
 
      Tax his land,
      Tax his bed,
      Tax the table
      At which he's fed.
 
      Tax his tractor,
      Tax his mule,
      Teach him taxes
      Are the rule.
 
      Tax his work,
      Tax his pay,
      He works for peanuts
      Anyway!
      Tax his cow,
      Tax his goat,
      Tax his pants,
      Tax his coat.
      Tax his ties,
      Tax his shirt,
      Tax his work,
      Tax his dirt.
 
      Tax his tobacco,
      Tax his drink,
      Tax him if he
      Tries to think.
 
      Tax his cigars,
      Tax his beers,
      If he cries
      Tax his tears.
 
      Tax his car,
      Tax his gas,
      Find other ways
      To tax his ass.
 
      Tax all he has
      Then let him know
      That you won't be done
      Till he has no dough.
 
      When he screams and hollers;
      Then tax him some more,
      Tax him till
      He's good and sore.
      Then tax his coffin,
      Tax his grave,
      Tax the sod in
      Which he's laid.
 
      Put these words
      Upon his tomb,
      Taxes drove me
      to my doom...'
 
      When he's gone,
      Do not relax,
      Its time to apply
      The inheritance tax.   
      Accounts Receivable Tax
      Building Permit Tax
      CDL license Tax
      Cigarette Tax
      Corporate Income Tax
      Dog License Tax
      Excise Taxes
      Federal Income Tax
      Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
      Fishing License Tax
      Food License Tax
      Fuel Permit Tax
      Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
      Gross Receipts Tax
      Hunting License Tax
      Inheritance Tax
      Inventory Tax
      IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
      Liquor Tax
      Luxury Taxes
      Marriage License Tax
      Medicare Tax
      Personal Property Tax
      Property Tax
      Real Estate Tax
      Service Charge T ax
      Social Security Tax
      Road Usage Tax
      Sales Tax
      Recreational Vehicle Tax
      School Tax
      State Income Tax
      State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
      Telephone Federal Excise Tax
      Telephone Federal Universal Ser vice FeeTax
      Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
      Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge=2 0Tax
      Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
      Telephone State and Local Tax
      Telephone Usage Charge Tax
      Utility Taxes
      Vehicle License Registration Tax
      Vehicle Sales Tax
      Watercraft Registration Tax
      Well Permit Tax
      Workers Compensation Tax
 
      STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.  We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the hell happened? Can you spell 'politicians?'
And I still have to 'press 1' for English!?
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2010, 12:35:13 PM »
That was very good, Myhondas.

Also, rather sad.  I'd be infuriated, but that would just effect me more than them.
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Offline Frankenkit

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2010, 12:46:18 PM »
I think that's largely wishful thinking.  I don't disagree with a lot of your points, but it's also true that the average american spends a LOT more of their money now than they used to.  That family where Mom stayed home to raise the kids, Dad went to work and made just enough for the family to get by.  I know a lot of people from that era who pretty much got by on potatoes and whatever meat Mom got on sale, because it wasn't cheap.  The family had one car.  Kids rode bikes everywhere.  
Now, I see a lot of two+ car families, kids get driven everywhere (costing gas money) we eat better (or at least buy more expensive food a lot of the time) and mom and dad both work to pay the mortgage or rent, depending on where they live.  Americans want to live big and do so on credit.

I agree with most of your points, but I also think a lot of Americans (and America as a country) have done this to themselves, living large on credit.  They can't wait to save or buy an older car up front, so they buy a new one and the bank owns their butts for however many years it takes to pay it off.  They need a house and have to do the mortgage thing (everyone does) but then the bank also owns their butts for however many years it takes to pay it off.  
Politicians AND the banks have their hands in our pockets.
But what do we expect when we vote for the guy with the most money (the most financial contributors, biggest ad /smear campaign, etc etc)

wistful nostalgia for a supposedly perfect era will only disappoint.  In the early 1900s we also had the horrors in the meat industry (read The Jungle) and took terrible advantage of the Polish/Irish/Lithuanian/etc etc immigrants in our industrial sectors.  We blamed them (and the Jews!) for our financial misfortunes.  The ethnicity of our immigrants may have changed, but by and large a lot of our problems haven't.


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Offline myhondas

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 12:59:42 PM »
The nostalgia at the end was but a miniscule part of the main point of T A X E S.  If you ever added up all the taxes you paid in a year, you would find that you kept about 28% of the money you earned. THAT IS SAD and do I hear a tea bag dropping somewhere? Hope so. 300 million need to be dropped on washington. If we made those 545 live under our rules and not theirs (NO EXCEPTIONS) things would be a lot different. They have this mentality of entitlement. One term and they get a pension for life? Best medical coverage available? Make increases to your income? What a life. Maybe we all should run for office.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 02:42:12 PM by myhondas »
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 02:06:55 PM »
While we all can share your frustration taxes are the price we pay for living in a civil society.  Want good roads, police and fire protection, safe water and food, military defense, etc, etc, etc?  Now we can all fight about whether it's to much or not but lets not this time around. :-X    Politicians are not some alien occupying force but people we have voted in and out of office but sadly that is about all the participation that a vast majority contribute.  It's the special interest money that washes through the system that has corrupted our government.  Throw all the bums out and the ones you newly elect will become the bums in short order.  This is not the first time we have had this type of outrage, I can recall at least three and nothing has really changed except the cast of characters.  Remember the Gingrich Revolution and the Contract with America and how they were gonna change things?  After a few years it is mired in the Abramoff/ K Street lobbying scandal and Newt himself is basically forced out in disgrace.  That's why I don't take the Teabaggers to seriously.  They may win a few and it sure feels good but soon those they elect will need to be reelected and for that they need money, and lots of it and we are back to square one.  It's depressing to think about and about all I can come up with is strict term limits just like the President has.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 02:48:45 PM by srust58 »

Offline 333

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 02:14:36 PM »
Certainly if you used that list, you'd only have 28% left.  But many things on that list don't exist, or are mentioned more than once by calling it something different.  "inheritance" was the only one that was literally listed twice.  There is no such thing as a "luxury" tax, unless you live on a Monopoly board game.  "Accounts Receivable Tax"??  No.  "Gross Receipts Tax"?  Again, no.  "Service Charge Tax"?  Really, no.  "Property" tax and "Real Estate" tax are the same thing, (not to be confused with "Personal Property" tax, so don't start with me on that).  Anything that had the word "license" in it is not a tax.  It is a fee for those who choose to do those particular activities.  You want to do those things, you gotta pay a fee, not a tax.  "IRS Interest Charges" not a tax.  It's interest.  If you pay late, you gotta pay interest, just like anything else.  "Corporate Income Tax" and "Federal Income Tax"- both should not be on the list because NOBODY has to pay both.  "Telephone Usage Charge Tax"?  What does that even mean?  You get to pay a tax for USING a phone?  I haven't looked on my phone bill, but that sounds real hinky.

And sure, nobody LIKES to pay taxes, but is anyone really "going to the poorhouse" because of taxes?  Don't think so.  And while there might be one or two exceptions, it's usually other things that drive you down that road.

I've mentioned this before, but it is only human nature to remember the negative.  You remember the tax, but forget that the tax pays for the road you ride on, or that the tax pays the military to keep us safe.  Where would we be without taxes?  I don't like taxes either, but I do like having the police around when my home gets broken in to.  I like having the Fire Department around in case I need them.  These things cost money.


Let me see if I can come up with some other stuff that I can put the word "Tax" behind and stir up some $h!t.


Fake edit; Damn my slow keyboard skills!  Seems someone already had the soapbox.
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 02:36:26 PM »
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world.  We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

100 years ago there was no middle class and we did have a national debt (http://130.94.230.21/debt_history.htm)  and while I'm too lazy to look it up I'm pretty sure that in 1910 the US was not the most prosperous nation in the world. (as measured by GDP)
In 1910 women could only vote in three states, could barely own property, still to this day on average earn less money for equivalent work than men, had virtually no reproductive rights, couldn't smoke in public, etc, etc,

Yeah, good times 100 years ago.  :-\   ;)
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 03:10:52 PM »
What a joke!

The police are NEVER around when your home gets broken into!  They take the report and you submit it to your insurance company.  They almost NEVER catch the perpetrator, either.  In fact, the police are NEVER around when rapes, murders, muggings, burglaries, car thefts, and on, and on, and on, are committed.  For just one example, more than 98% of (reported) rapes are never solved, and the other 2% were committed by somebody the victim knew.  Probably even fewer car thefts, etc.

Roads are infrequently repaired, and when they are it is typically by corrupt government contractors who overcharge because they have signed contracts with the recipients of their campaign contributions, and many of those are paid for by TOLLS, which were NOT even on myhondas' list!!!

Fire department?  When's the last time your house caught on fire?  Did the fire department get there in time to save it or to save any of the occupants?  Most towns have all-volunteer fire departments anyway.  Thanks, but I'd rather keep the tax money and buy a fire extinguisher.  Oh, I actually already own several fire extinguishers.  EMS/ambulance?  That's gets charged back to the patient or their health insurance.

Schools?  You kiddin' me?  My kids go to school and complain constantly that they are bored.  "Gifted and Talented" throws even more advanced stuff at them, and they are STILL bored.  All they learn in school is how their moron friends spend 12 hours a day playing on the Wii, so "why don't you let me, Daddy?"  Or "Suzy's got a boyfriend, and they got caught kissing in the girls' room, Daddy".  Or, "everybody else's parents let them watch R-rated movies, so why are you so un-cool, Daddy?"  Yeah, they need to be "socialized", so you've got to send them to school, otherwise they might grow up to sit on their porch in Ruby Ridge with a shot-gun and shoot the damned revenuers.

Seems that there are two kinds of people in the world anymore:  Those that fend for themselves and those that think the world owes them a living.  Our current government is trying to cultivate more and more of the latter, by screwing over the endangered species former.  It sure is easy to screw over productive people when you give everyone a vote regardless of what they have to bring to the table.  Lazy people thrive when you give them the same voice as productive people.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 03:14:11 PM »
Look, the important thing here is that when the majority of our tax money is spent to support foreign wars to perpetuate the corporate empire, I have problems.

When the majority of our tax dollars is spent on education and the betterment of the citizens, then I can say our government is serving us. Until then they are all corporate hooligans and I despise every last one of them.

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Offline Alan F.

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2010, 03:36:17 PM »
41

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2010, 03:41:42 PM »
What a joke!

The police are NEVER around when your home gets broken into!  They take the report and you submit it to your insurance company.  They almost NEVER catch the perpetrator, either.  In fact, the police are NEVER around when rapes, murders, muggings, burglaries, car thefts, and on, and on, and on, are committed.  For just one example, more than 98% of (reported) rapes are never solved, and the other 2% were committed by somebody the victim knew.  Probably even fewer car thefts, etc.

Roads are infrequently repaired, and when they are it is typically by corrupt government contractors who overcharge because they have signed contracts with the recipients of their campaign contributions, and many of those are paid for by TOLLS, which were NOT even on myhondas' list!!!

Fire department?  When's the last time your house caught on fire?  Did the fire department get there in time to save it or to save any of the occupants?  Most towns have all-volunteer fire departments anyway.  Thanks, but I'd rather keep the tax money and buy a fire extinguisher.  Oh, I actually already own several fire extinguishers.  EMS/ambulance?  That's gets charged back to the patient or their health insurance.

Schools?  You kiddin' me?  My kids go to school and complain constantly that they are bored.  "Gifted and Talented" throws even more advanced stuff at them, and they are STILL bored.  All they learn in school is how their moron friends spend 12 hours a day playing on the Wii, so "why don't you let me, Daddy?"  Or "Suzy's got a boyfriend, and they got caught kissing in the girls' room, Daddy".  Or, "everybody else's parents let them watch R-rated movies, so why are you so un-cool, Daddy?"  Yeah, they need to be "socialized", so you've got to send them to school, otherwise they might grow up to sit on their porch in Ruby Ridge with a shot-gun and shoot the damned revenuers.

Seems that there are two kinds of people in the world anymore:  Those that fend for themselves and those that think the world owes them a living.  Our current government is trying to cultivate more and more of the latter, by screwing over the endangered species former.  It sure is easy to screw over productive people when you give everyone a vote regardless of what they have to bring to the table.  Lazy people thrive when you give them the same voice as productive people.

Well I don't know where you live Ed, but here in Minnesota things are not anywhere near as bad as you describe.  Sure we have higher taxes than many places but Minneapolis is a pleasant, clean, and safe city to live in.  I am just willing to pay a bit more not to live in the hell you describe.  Sometimes you get what you pay for.  Around here the police show up quickly when called and are courteous and professional, same with the fire department.  Rubbish collectors pick up virtually everything including appliances, furniture, mattresses, etc or you can haul it yourself to the city recycling center and drop off free of charge.  No need to dump it in a vacant lot or leave it in the backyard.  Just a few examples.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 03:56:20 PM by srust58 »

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 03:43:01 PM »
You sure about that number?

In this day and age I tend to think we spend more money on "Defense" than anything else.

http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 03:50:32 PM »
    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. ... Is there no other way the world may live?
          
- Eisenhower Speech to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, "The Chance for Peace" (1953-04-16)

A little knowledge form the last great Republican IMHO.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2010, 03:58:31 PM »
   Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. ... Is there no other way the world may live?
          
- Eisenhower Speech to the American Society of Newspaper Editors, "The Chance for Peace" (1953-04-16)

A little knowledge form the last great Republican IMHO.

+1

Offline JS550

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2010, 04:50:51 PM »
I don't mind paying taxes, like I said, but I think a lot of its wasted. I like having a great military force, and hate to see it stuck in the #$%* that its in. I get the whole infrastructure thing. Tax $$ going to defense is fine, but shouldn't some of go to taking care of the returning military?  And I said it before about health care, if they cant take care of our soldiers, should they really be working on any other health care plans?
As for for Police & Fire, well, I'm a firefighter so I'm a little biased on that. I would like to see someone put out a fully involved house with a hand extinguisher though! Hope someone videos that if it happens. A town without police would be interesting? taxes would be the last thing you would need to worry about!
I live in Michigan, the roads have ALAWAYS been #$%*. The state is in the worst shape financially that it has probably ever been in, and our state government just got a raise. WTF? My wife, you guessed it, public school teacher, just took a 3.5% pay cut, many other hits to her health ins, and the state is talking about all public employees, both of us, taking a 5% decrease. I have had two contracts, 6 years, with no increase in pay and decreases in my health insurance.
Now, why are the workers, public and private, taking concessions and losing jobs but the #$%*ers who are in office are doing ok?
And don't want to hear any #$%* about unions. Slave whipping, plantation owners were against organized labor too!
If you're worried about how many calories are in beer, is losing weight really your biggest problem?

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2010, 05:00:24 PM »
You sure about that number?

In this day and age I tend to think we spend more money on "Defense" than anything else.

http://www.wallstats.com/deathandtaxes/

I recently saw figures that showed 636 billion for 2010 but not included in that number was what was described as military related spending not in the Dept. of Defense budget of around 300+ billion.  So the real total is approaching 1 trillion.

Offline 333

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2010, 05:41:24 PM »
Should have known Ed would pop in on this one. 

FYI- In 2005, my home was broken in to.  I wasn't even in the state, and the cops caught them in the act.  In October of 2006, EMS saved my son's life when he was hit by two cars. My HMO was never billed.  And regarding your roads, there must have some roads that are smooth.  Again, you're only looking at the negative.
Go metric, every inch of the way!

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Offline mlinder

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2010, 05:43:26 PM »
I like cake. :)
No.


Offline Frankenkit

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2010, 06:03:08 PM »
yeah! Let them eat cake!
"Moderation in all things - especially moderation. Too much moderation is excessive. The occasional excess is all part of living the moderate life."
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2010, 06:57:42 PM »
Or pineapple upsidedown cake cooked over a campfire. :D :D :D



Offline demon78

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2010, 03:45:38 AM »
Dookie I think you're right about Ike, at least he had a clue about the way the world worked.
Bill the demon.

Offline 72 yellow

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2010, 08:37:59 AM »
I just wonder when it became un-american to just ask for your money's worth when it concerns how your tax money is spent.  We don't live beyond our means.  Our newest vehicle is 8 years old.  Every time taxes go up we must cut from somewhere.  I live in a Downriver community bordering Detroit, so I am used to bad roads and some city services that are lacking.  I sometimes wonder if we are heading towards class warfare. 

Offline 333

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Re: U.S. Goverment
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2010, 08:56:40 AM »
It's not un-American to ask that.  What I find un-American is to exaggerate way beyond common sense and say things that are not true.  The list posted at the beginning of this thread is a good example.
Go metric, every inch of the way!

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