Author Topic: Markings on early CB750 cranks  (Read 3936 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Markings on early CB750 cranks
« on: February 16, 2010, 11:27:05 PM »
As you can gather from my flurry of posts I am trying to rebuild my K0 engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a good condition later crank (with letters and numbers on the con rods and crank web). My original K0 rods have really good wrist pin (gudgeon pin) eyes and I want to use them with the later crank. Is this possible?

Are there any hieroglyphics  (Japanese) on the  early K0 1969 con rods, I am not seeing?

There are some funny notch markings on them.

cheers and thanks

Ash D
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 03:21:25 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 12:57:44 PM »
HEEEEELP !!!!Anyone any ideas on this please. The Service manual mentions funny Japanese marks on the crank on very early motors, but nothing on the rods
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 01:23:15 PM »
HEEEEELP !!!!Anyone any ideas on this please. The Service manual mentions funny Japanese marks on the crank on very early motors, but nothing on the rods
Sorry I can't answer your question directly.

I just use Plastigauge and ignore any markings.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 03:49:45 PM »
Tahnks Maybe its one for the Sandcastonly site. I do have Plastigage I just want to be sure that the early matched set of rods are compatible with the later crakshaft.

Hondaman MRieck Bryan - have you any idea please?

Cheers

Ash

“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Online HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,786
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 10:08:30 PM »
It's a really looong answer...I spent 5 full pages in the Book about the markings and what they mean, and how to swap new rods onto a different crank, etc. (Reassembly chapter, Section A.)

Essentially, all K2 and earlier engines, and some of the later engines, have a long string of ID marked letter and numbers on them to tell you what the journal sizes were. Then you can either use ID bore gages and micrometers on the rods and journals, or Plastigage on a known thickness of bearing in known condition, to determine the size of bearing insert you need.

I also included a table to show how to generate your own "bearing code" from the measurements, both for the rods and the crank. It's a lot of info, and would take a whole evening to try to type it up into a post, make pictures, etc...to completely blueprint the rod/crank set from there, all you'd then need would be a good 1-2kg digital scale to balance the rods and pistons by weight (presuming the journals are all good).

The bearing charts are in the FAQ somewhere, if you want to try to piece the info together manually: you'll need mics and ID bore gages to finish the job.  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,955
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 11:43:03 PM »
Mark Haycock mentions that before engine number 1015587 the crank markings were in "Kanji" script but both my scanned UK dealer manual and the early US manual i have make no mention of anything other than Arabic script letters and numbers so sorry cant help there, you would need a manual from the very first days of import to the USA if one still exists
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks - FOUND THE MARKINGS
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 03:07:22 AM »
Thanks everyone - the funny markings (see attached word document) are are mentioned in the Service Manual but nothing about the conrod markings.

I have asked this question on the Sandcast site. Or maybe I could ask John Wyatt?

Bryan/Hondaman - I do have access to accurate micrometers and bore gauges- problem is getting used to using them correctly, when you are an electronics engineer !! - perhaps I should just try to measure everything and try to select the correct shell colours. At least I have the crank markings on the replacement crank. They took some finding too - they were nothing like I expected - they look more like crayon marks my son used to do when he was about 4 years old!!! I will also take high res photos of the con rods and see if they reveal anything I am not seeing with the naked eye (as I think Bryan suggested in another post).

Thanks again for all of your kind help - AshD  

Just got an LED light and magnifying glasses on the con rods:

Each con rod has a number of notches one notch for Con rod nearest Alternator, two notches for second conrod in etc.

Each conrod and its cap have marks on them (etched in)  as follows

Q743 Cap   Q743 conrod
Q776 Cap   Q776 conrod
Q775 cap   Q775 conrod
Q786 cap   Q786 conrod

There another mark like a 7 - could this be the weight code?

This is one for your book Hondaman !!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 03:18:17 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Online HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,786
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks - FOUND THE MARKINGS
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2010, 07:09:05 AM »
Thanks everyone - the funny markings (see attached word document) are are mentioned in the Service Manual but nothing about the conrod markings.

I have asked this question on the Sandcast site. Or maybe I could ask John Wyatt?

Bryan/Hondaman - I do have access to accurate micrometers and bore gauges- problem is getting used to using them correctly, when you are an electronics engineer !! - perhaps I should just try to measure everything and try to select the correct shell colours. At least I have the crank markings on the replacement crank. They took some finding too - they were nothing like I expected - they look more like crayon marks my son used to do when he was about 4 years old!!! I will also take high res photos of the con rods and see if they reveal anything I am not seeing with the naked eye (as I think Bryan suggested in another post).

Thanks again for all of your kind help - AshD 

Just got an LED light and magnifying glasses on the con rods:

Each con rod has a number of notches one notch for Con rod nearest Alternator, two notches for second conrod in etc.

Each conrod and its cap have marks on them (etched in)  as follows

Q743 Cap   Q743 conrod
Q776 Cap   Q776 conrod
Q775 cap   Q775 conrod
Q786 cap   Q786 conrod

There another mark like a 7 - could this be the weight code?

This is one for your book Hondaman !!


The notches are unusual! I don't remember seeing those.  ???
With the lots-of-touch assembly that was done to the sandcast bikes, it would not surprise me to find out that they were matching rods to positions on the crank: a big (sales) deal was being made of how smooth the bikes were at the time (like they needed any more help to sell them...). As wrenches, we were flogged to balance the carbs every time a K0 stood still in our shop. Those 4 cables sure were a nuisance for that particular feature!

The "Q" codes you've found are much like the numbers that got stamped into the matched caps on the Rocker Towers: they indicate parts that have been matched in machining. Starting in the K1 series, or maybe during the early diecast engines, the weight codes became spread over the split in the rod caps so the extra match-markings were not needed, eliminating a step in production.

The "7" you found is an early weight code: they are usually "5", "6" or "7" so they don't get confused with the bearing/journal numbers of "1", "2", "3" / "A", "B", "C". Most of those came and went, mostly 'went' in the K5 and later engines. K3 lost them for a while, too, as I remember. And, they are hard to see! As the cranks got better in casting, the rods were used to offset the variances in the flyweights instead of trying to match the weights. This is one big reason why the engines after K2 were not as smooth as the legendary "old factory" K0/K1 engines. If you don't have the markings on the crankshaft, it's not very simple to balance the rod weights with the crank!

ByranJ: there were Katakana characters on the very early crankshafts (and rod weight codes), and in a few other places, too. They became "normal" characters pretty quickly for exported bikes, though. I have seen the pictographics on bikes that were bought in Japan, too!

Ash:
In my 'real' life (before I switch to my ketchup-and-mustard cape suit), I, too, am an Electronics Engineer: I turned Controls Engineer 25 years ago. You can do those gages! Most come with a "standard" rod (micrometers, here...) that is 1.0000", 2.0000", etc. to match the mike. That provides 2 things for you:
1. It gives you a test reference, in case the mike got dropped or something.
2. It gives you the perfect test piece to test-measure and get the "feel" of the tool.
Pratice with those rods, you'll figure it out: it's all about how much you tighten the knob on your part. You never want to tighten it so much that the mike spreads or the reading will be too big: it also can read too small then if the material is soft, like brass or aluminum. 

You're a smart guy: you'll figure those out. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2010, 07:36:39 AM »
Hey thanks for the compliment Hondaman!! and from the 'Great Man' himself too - you have spurred me on to make those measurements. The micrometers I have are the accurate ones and I have access to calibrated slip gages to check 'em. it's just that I agree with Bryan that you could hand a micrometer to three different people to measure a part and chances are they would all come up with different measurements.


BTW I got this from ChrisR on the Sandcastonly site (he is in the UK)

The early crank / conrods had Japanese markings, and are often VERY difficult to make out - There is a service bulletin (a Honda UK one I think, which I was given in pre-internet days) somewhere that gives the "translation" of these to equivalent western characters as per the parts list.
I will keep you posted.

Chris R.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 12:38:36 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 11:38:02 AM »
Further to the earlier post i came across some other etched marks on the same side as the '7's' but hard to make out. possibly  the Katakana characters that Hondaman  mentions.

I also noticed that the attached alternator rotor on the K0 crank has a large flange on it about 3/8" bigger than the rotor diameter.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 11:41:44 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline MCRider

  • Such is the life of a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,376
  • Today's Lesson: One good turn deserves another.
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 11:54:26 AM »
Further to the earlier post i came across some other etched marks on the same side as the '7's' but hard to make out. possibly  the Katakana characters that Hondaman  mentions.

I also noticed that the attached alternator rotor on the K0 crank has a large flange on it about 3/8" bigger than the rotor diameter.
The large flanged rotors were standard up to about K4 or so. Then Honda reduced the size to slightly larger than what we were reducing the large ones to. ie no flange.
Ride Safe:
Ron
1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,955
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2010, 11:28:32 PM »
Chris is a good man with an amazing "Shed" holding lots of very desirable Honda's. I have traded parts and visited him a couple of times,knowledgeable and friendly.
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2010, 12:38:03 AM »
Yes I agree Bryan - he has helped me lots during my rebuild of the UK K0 1010382 and could not be more helpful. The only thing we disagree on is he says my bike should have a wrinkle tank but I am convinced my tank is the original one and non wrinkle (it has the alloy cap too). He also put me onto Andrew Parnaby for painting (who is near Tadcaster, right next to John Wyatt's 'Rising Sun Restorations'). What's more he rides the bikes he restores. He's a Top Man. Evidently Andrew has done paint for David Silver himself for his personal collection and he painted the Gold bike in Classic Mechanics after the guy who was originally doing it bottled out!! Paints on the pinstripes too and paints for his 'next door neighbour' !!

cheers

Ash
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 12:40:01 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2010, 06:43:59 AM »
Hondaman/Bryan/ or anyone. Before I get the Plastigage out!!!

One of the K0 conrods is marked under the shells. The shells themseves looked like they had rotated slightly in the conrod housing.. but the journal looks OK.  Any ideas? Is this Conrod toast?

The conrods on the K0 apper to be all 316g within 2 grammes and the same for the ones off the later crank.

What do the weight codes mean in terms of grammes? The later crank ones were all weight code 'D'

Cheers Ash
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 07:56:20 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2010, 08:44:35 AM »
The rod shells on later ones were stamped and colour coded, can you see either of those?

 Lighter Alternator was on my K3, you may want to try one for a "factory"mod..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Online HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,786
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2010, 08:58:52 AM »
Hondaman/Bryan/ or anyone. Before I get the Plastigage out!!!

One of the K0 conrods is marked under the shells. The shells themseves looked like they had rotated slightly in the conrod housing.. but the journal looks OK.  Any ideas? Is this Conrod toast?

The conrods on the K0 apper to be all 316g within 2 grammes and the same for the ones off the later crank.

What do the weight codes mean in terms of grammes? The later crank ones were all weight code 'D'

Cheers Ash

I have occasionally seen the bearings rotated a millimeter or so: is that what you are describing? The little tabs that are supposed to hold them from rotating don't always get lined up properly when someone is closing new shells into the rods. When installing new ones, set the tab to line up with the notch on the rod and let the extra "crush" length project from the other side of the bearing cap. Then when fitting them togther, press them by hand first to fully seat the bearings (before assembling onto a journal), so the tabs stay where they should. The main purpose is to ensure the oil hole does not become blocked as the bearing is crushed into its final position. And, of course, the tabs prevent bearing rotation later.

I used to have the table of rod weight codes, but I seem to have lost it over the years. I just weight them for matched weights, or modify the heavier ones to be close to the lighter ones. Honda's spec was 2g, but I found that I can get them within 0.5g pretty easily!  :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2010, 09:04:03 AM »
What I am worried about is that the surface underneath the shell on one K0 con rod is scuffed and slightly scored. Do you think I can use a later rod with the three good K0 ones, obviously matched for weight? How did you alter the weights Hondaman?

cheers

AshD
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,955
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2010, 09:13:13 AM »
If the shell has spun, even a little bit the rod is no good as the hole will be bigger and not round.

As to weight removal you need to find an unstressed area, on the good old fords there was a large amount of excess metal around the small end.

If you want to be real finicky get two accurate balances and put the big end on one with the small end on the other and try and get all 4 reading the same at both ends---that helps balance the reciprocating masses
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Online HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,786
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2010, 07:27:26 PM »
+1, Like BryanJ says about the rod's hole..  :(

Can you post a close-up picture?

The parting lines on the beams of the rods usually harbors a little extra metal, as does the cast-on lettering and irregularities along the sides of the web, where the sand may have moved a little. Those were the places where we'd go in to whittle a little, here & there, to match them up.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2010, 12:10:49 AM »
Thanks -I  could take a picture Hondaman but I have decided not too use it anyway - far to risky. No point in spending a fortune on painting and skimping on critical mechanical items. Problem is finding a decent rod to replace it with as I have about had it with dodgy Ebay used parts. Perhaps a request on the UK forum Wanted ads may come up with one. Thanks for all your help BTW.

Bryan/Hondaman/ or anyone? What is a permissible clearance on the small end bearing? Using the end of the pin which is normally in the piston (least wear)  and the small end bore on the 'bad' non K0 rods I can get a 0.002" feeler gauge inbetween the pin and small end bore - but it's a tight fit. I really need to get hold of a bore gauge to get a more precise measurement.  I am better with electronic components, you know  ::)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 01:25:17 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline bryanj

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,955
  • CB500 Number 1000036
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2010, 08:09:02 AM »
piston pin 14.994~15.00

rod          15.016~15.034

so clearance is 0.016~0.04

all in mm

(0.0006299~0.001574 in inches) so 2 thou is right on top limit when numbers are rounded. Do check a new pin in the hole as they do wear in the piston boses just not as much as in the centre
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2010, 10:02:29 AM »
I grabbed a dirty crank from a 69 motor, 10,XXX.. and spotted the"bearinggrafitti" pretty quickly... just not sure that is the original crank
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Online HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,786
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2010, 10:16:21 AM »
Thanks -I  could take a picture Hondaman but I have decided not too use it anyway - far to risky. No point in spending a fortune on painting and skimping on critical mechanical items. Problem is finding a decent rod to replace it with as I have about had it with dodgy Ebay used parts. Perhaps a request on the UK forum Wanted ads may come up with one. Thanks for all your help BTW.

Bryan/Hondaman/ or anyone? What is a permissible clearance on the small end bearing? Using the end of the pin which is normally in the piston (least wear)  and the small end bore on the 'bad' non K0 rods I can get a 0.002" feeler gauge inbetween the pin and small end bore - but it's a tight fit. I really need to get hold of a bore gauge to get a more precise measurement.  I am better with electronic components, you know  ::)

Brand new clearance is 0.0004" to 0.0006" (0.01mm to 0.015mm) both in the small end and in the piston. The rods get pretty noisy, and lube breakdown gets pretty bad, at 0.002" or more. Honda says the upper limit allowed between pin and bore is 0.0031", but I can't imagine the racket at that much slack!  :D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2010, 10:51:39 AM »
Thanks guys - I am convinced - guess the search is on for a replacement rod!!!
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 592
  • CB400/4, 69 CB750K0, '69 CB250SS, CB350K1 CB500K0
Re: Markings on early CB750 cranks
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2010, 12:54:00 AM »
Reply to me from ChrisR (SandcastOnly site) via email

Hi Ash,

I have mixed rods before, and I would certainly not be concerned if the “odd” rod had a weight which was within the range of the other three. Perhaps you could attempt to balance the reciprocating mass using the two scales approach, but not something I have ever contemplated. Most of us use these things fairly gently these days, so whilst achieving a factory standard is desirable and gives great peace of mind, some compromises can be made.

So anyone out there in the Uk who has a serviceable rod to sell  (don't take that the wrong way!!!) then please get in touch.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.”