Topic: Honda in the Barn

[LouB]

Hi Everyone,

I need some help...here's the long and short. 1976 K6 with a frozen motor!  I finally got the motor mounted on an engine stand yesterday (thanks to some nice posts here on how to do that!) and got the breather and valve covers off...but when I went to rotate the crankshaft to line up the timing marks it was a no go! Not sure what to do...the cam chain, rockers, valves, etc looked great initially, but then this! Should I just keep going and try to get the head off and if so, how do I w/o being able to rotate the crankshaft? Help...

here are the pics with the valve cover off:

[strynboen]

hey just get the head off..then you can test the top vithaut cam chain...as ve say in denmark...there is only one vay,,,thats a head,,,, ::)or somthing like it.. ...anyvay just get it apart..

[LouB]

Let's see if I can get the pics to show correctly this time:



This is as frustrating as the motor...

try this link to flickr:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2740/4379177221_5b829580db.jpg

[LouB]

Or just go here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47783045@N02/

[strynboen]

think you have a rusted piston..it kan be only one cylender..vho have exhost valve standing open,,and get " wet" air for years,,dont now the right vord..or valvet are stock too..its better to take it apart ,,do not try to break it to run

[Johnie]

Man that is the pits...I hear you. I have a K4 I bought as a parts bike. Only 4,700 miles on the speedo. Engine froze and I had to take the jugs and pistons out as an assembly. Since it is a parts bike I have been soaking the pistons for like 5 months and they still are not moving. I just disconnected the pistons from the crank to get it out as a complete assembly to work on it.

[strynboen]

take it in the bake oven,,250" in a auer...make for shure ,,the vife is in a other tovn for some days ,,prob,,dont  get loose first time,,but it gets oil in evryvhere..dont use gas burners it make cylenders deform..

[Mossy21]

I would remove the camshaft caps (holds the camshaft in the head) and see if one of them are seized first.  That might be the problem and not the pistons. 
Hope this helps. 

[LouB]

Well, I feel a little better...I got everything off except the head, and the bolts are all soaking in PB Blaster...I also pulled the plugs and sprayed liberal amounts through the holes. So, I'll probably soak everything again tomorrow night and then try to pull the head Wed after work. I'll let everyone know what happens! Thanks.

[754]

Johnie, remove crank and replace and torque head/jugs..

 Knock a sparkplug apart, and weld a tube to it, tap other end to take grease fitting..then insert in plug hole..

 Now hookup the grease gun, and grease em out..

               ..try to take pics..

[LouB]

Man Johnie...I give you credit for being considerably more patient than I ever could! At least it's a parts bike.. Anyway, my little overnight soak worked! I got the shaft to turn, not very smoothly, but at least it's not frozen anymore! So, the head comes off tomorrow night if all the bolts cooperate...then I guess I need to figure out what I am going to about boring the cylinders. I really wasn't planning on going 836, I mean I wasn't planning on having to bore the cylinders at all...but I guess that decision was made for me. I wanted to stay as close to stock as I could...I guess my concern is what else would I have to change on the bike by going 836 vs. just .25 or .5 over?? What do you all think?? Thanks.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

LouB,

If the pistons prove to be good and you prefer 736cc then just pick up another block/cylinders, hone, re-ring and go if the measurements are within specs. Plenty out there and MUCH cheaper than a 836 kit.

[LouB]

Thanks Jerry, that's a great idea and I never even thought of that!  I guess I just assumed the pistons would need to be replaced but I'm sure it was the rings that rusted to the cylinder. I guess I'll know tomorrow...I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for your suggestion...this is new to me and I like to do things the hard way. But really I just want a nice looking, nice running bike when I am finished. I will spend the money I need to, but I don't want to break the bank either. I guess that's the whole trick to this...save as much money as possible w/o doing a half ass job!

[LouB]

Well, I got the head off!  But the block is stuck on the #1 and #4 pistons...I'll post some pics tomorrow. Not sure what to do about that. The pistons and rings that I can see don't look too bad, though it looks like there is some rust on the domes. Anyway, if anyone has any advice or ideas they would be much appreciated! Thanks.

[strynboen]

if nothing are broke,,i vill get a light flex honing,,new rings.., a valvet job,,and klean all ,,new gasket set..put all together,,,and drive a seson..to get the engine to nov..ok klean caburetters alså..and new filters...its is aut on street you learn how good yours engine are...

[Grnrngr]

I'm doing a 74 K motor that was froze tight when I got it. Used a block of wood and a BFH to knock the piston out of the jug. Since I have no idea how many miles are on it, and since the #1 piston was pretty gnarly lookin, I'm going thru the whole thing, head went to the shop, got the slight warp shaved flat, new valve guides and a nice clean up, cylinders were mic'd and honed and are apparently none too worse for the wear. The gnarly piston looks salvageable, so it'll get new rings and gaskets. I'm going to pull the bottom apart for inspection, there's just a slight bit of surface rust on the rods that I want to clean off and I want to make sure there isn't something funky in there, and after reading another thread about shifting forks and trannies, I'd just like to see what condition these are in. It's already out and halfway apart, might as well take the opportunity for a little hands on learnin. Heh...then I gotta decide what to do with it. The 72 motor I'm running now was also froze when I got it, broke it loose and put 6k miles on it since last July. It runs great, so I'm not messin with it until it gets weak.

[LouB]

I'm with you on that grnrngr...at least the top end is completely disassembled! I got the pistons out tonight and honestly, I don't think they look to bad and the cylinders don't for that matter either. So cleaning and inspection begins this weekend and we'll see what we have to work with. If everything measures up then I'm going to stick with what I've got. New rings and gaskets and I think I will go with a HD cam chain for sure. The pics I took all came out blurry so I'll just have to try again tomorrow or Sat. Thanks for your inspiration!

[Grnrngr]

And thanks to you for yours!  Not to mention BIG THANKS to all the folks involved with running the board. There is an incredible wealth of information here, from an incredibly wide spectrum of folks, all over the world, who like to have fun with motorcycles. Just awesome!   

[LouB]

I agree, it seems there's not a problem that someone hasn't already encountered...much gratitude! So, here are a few more NEWBIE questions:

I got the valve springs off, with only one mishap  I lost one of the cotters! Oh man...but I can't get the valves off! Mike Nixon's book says "there is a burr on the edges of the keeper groove" and to "lightly deburr the keeper groove w/ some emery sandpaper" uhhhhh, what is the "keeper groove"?? I know, dumb question, but that's not what the Clymer manual calls it...and I am easily confused! Also, there is some serious mud and dirt in the cylinder block fins and the head...and cleaning suggestions? I'd like to stick them in the bath tub and have at it, but not too sure that's a smart move

Here is a pic of the cylinder head...notice the VALVES that are still there...


And the #4 Piston

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OK...the photo thing is killing me...it can't be that difficult!!

[LouB]

[LouB]

okay...I'm figuring this out! Jeez...

[strynboen]

you have to pull this rubber end"of..they are get hard..så just vip them off..then get some nev..its one of the oil vasts plases,,så nev must on

[754]

He ist right! Pull ze rubber end off..

[LouB]

Thanks guys...I got 'em off last night. The exhaust side of the head is a disaster...I don't even know where to start! Just cleaning I guess...I saw on here that someone used a wire brush attachment from Sears on the end of their drill to clean out the exhaust side...so another trip to Sears is in order. Plus some of the screw holes for the flanges need to be re-tapped...no wonder i couldn't get the pipes out!! Waiting for the cylinder bore gauge so I can determine if the cylinders need to be bored and if I can use the existing pistons...lots to do!! Thanks.

[754]

Take em to MMI .. maybe they can glassbead head & measure the bores..