Author Topic: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!  (Read 34345 times)

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Offline greenjeans

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Love the idea of engraving.   That's the next thing I'm going to tackle on my current build.





Looking good - keep it going
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline fantino

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greenjeans: That's some really beautiful stuff you posted, I really like what was done with the the forks.

Traveler: Nothing too new to report, just piddling, polishing and parts cleaning. I had to rebuild the transmission in my Volkswagen (ugh!) and took a 2500 mile road trip to California and back to Washington. Luckily I have a little $$$ leftover to spend on the bike :-p I just bought a set of Bridgestone Spitfires, so I can finally get this thing rolling around.

Offline fantino

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More sporadic updates!

Mark (aka HondaMan) is currently working on rebuilding my swingarm, so I should have that back in relatively short order. Very excited about this! I have a set of fork emulators from MikesXS in the mail, so I will be able to re-rebuild my forks again soon. All that is left for the suspension end of things right now is a new pair of rear shocks. Any suggestions between $100-200?

I have a number of designs worked out for the engravings, though I probably won't be sharing them until I actually start cutting into metal :-)

Offline jaguar

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Need some spring in my step!
« Reply #103 on: May 01, 2011, 11:35:58 AM »
More sporadic updates!

Mark (aka HondaMan) is currently working on rebuilding my swingarm, so I should have that back in relatively short order. Very excited about this! I have a set of fork emulators from MikesXS in the mail, so I will be able to re-rebuild my forks again soon. All that is left for the suspension end of things right now is a new pair of rear shocks. Any suggestions between $100-200?

I have a number of designs worked out for the engravings, though I probably won't be sharing them until I actually start cutting into metal :-)

DONT buy cheapo shocks....
hagon might be your best bet.  should run around $200-250 and will be custom made for you and your bike
if not take a look as progressive.  should run you under $200

if you are running the emulators think about some straight rate springs from racetech

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Need some spring in my step!
« Reply #104 on: May 01, 2011, 12:13:40 PM »
Yeah, I did a bunch of looking around and decided under $200 isn't going to cut it for what I want. The Hagons you suggested are a definite possibility, though I might honestly just hold off on new rear shocks until I have a little extra for Ikons. Right now I really want to get the frame all together so I can just move this thing around easier.

[edit]
Regarding the single rate springs... I've heard a lot of conflicting opinion on this matter, even from some of our more knowledgeable forum members. I guess from a tuning standpoint, the predictability of single-rate springs would be an advantage in arriving on a predictable feel for the front end. Regardless, I'm sure my old springs are tired enough that a new set, progressive or otherwise, will yield a noticeable result.
[/edit]


I'm using CATIA a lot at school right now. Making up some models for some nice custom parts when I'm not totally swamped with homework :-)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 12:45:42 PM by fantino »

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Need some spring in my step!
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2011, 05:46:09 PM »
Got my swingarm back in the mail from Hondaman (after a little mixup ^_^), everything looks great! I'd post a picture, but there's really not a lot to actually see. I just need to mount my tires and finish polishing my forks and I'll have a rolling frame with an engine in it :-)

Very little else is new. I'm spending almost 30-40 hours a week just sitting in a computer lab doing schoolwork in CATIA for my CAD class, in addition to my other classes and a part-time job... Hoping summer will yield better productivity and maybe a little extra money for me.

Sorry this build isn't more interesting most of the time :-p
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 05:53:53 PM by fantino »

Offline SF

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Swingarm is back!
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2011, 06:24:38 PM »
I love pics!!! Every body likes pics here! :D
92 wr250 sold
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04 zx10r
73 cb350 twin
75 cb550f
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Offline rangelov

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Swingarm is back!
« Reply #107 on: August 12, 2011, 03:29:42 PM »
Haven't heard from you in a while.  Have you done any riding?
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=76835
-----------------------------------------------
CB750K4, Boss maroon metallic, 836cc, RC Engrg 4 into 1, Forks by Frank, air assisted front forks,  JC Whitney 16" rear.

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Swingarm is back!
« Reply #108 on: August 13, 2011, 08:10:42 PM »
I'm still depressingly far from being able to actually ride, but I just keep trying to plug away at what I can. Tuition went up 18% for Fall and I don't get very many hours at work, so cash-flow is the main impediment to moving along as I've run out of parts to clean and refurbish, haha. I'm finishing up with the restoration of a 50s canned ham trailer over the next month or so. When I sell it, my financial situation should improve dramatically :-)

That said, I have managed to get some good work done. I replaced the helicoils I put into the head for the external oil lines with solid threaded inserts, as I was not happy with how the helicoil tapered at one end when I installed them. I also retrofit the innards of a 1:4 tach drive unit into my original CB500 gauges (I prefer their smaller size and appearance over the later gauges) so I can use them with my 650 tach, and am waiting on a friend to cut and print a new set of gauge faces for me. I finished re-rebuilding the forks with the new emulators and 15-wt oil.

I'm waiting on a tapered steering stem bearing in the mail, but once that gets here I'll have an (almost) complete engine, frame, forks, and wheels rolling around on fresh rubber. My old tank was covered in painters tape and I poured a large amount of dense expanding 2-part polyurethane expanding foam over it so I can carve out the plug for the composite tank.

I'll post pictures of some of this progress to prove that I haven't given up :-p Thanks to anyone who (somehow) manages continued interest in my project!

Offline Dyrden

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Swingarm is back!
« Reply #109 on: August 13, 2011, 09:16:26 PM »
Good stuff.  Ill be checking back in to see this come together.  Now, back to beating my front caliper into submission.

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Swingarm is back!
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2011, 04:32:11 AM »
Time for a MEGA-POST. I finally uploaded lots of pics to show you all what I've been up to. Still busy with the trailer (new plywood interior is nearly finished!) but I found some time to do work.

First off, my most recent purchases:

Airbox Rubbers


Clutch Plates


Aaaaaand the big one: Hand-made clip-ons from 707 Racing, LGC Rear-Sets and 2 Phenolic Pistons from Kevin400F. (I found the heim joints in a box of my brothers stuff)


Here's a couple pictures of My swingarm after it came back from HondaMan:





Here is my tank in the process of being covered in expanding foam (I used 3lb density), there'll be a pic of the end product near the end of this post:



Quick tutorial for those who wish to run a 650 cam and tach on a 500 and retain the stock gauge housings. My reasoning is simply that the older style gauges are much smaller and nicer looking than later models (Especially the 650s, ugly as sin!).

Here's the original CB500 gauge housing with the tach-drive unit:



I found a tachometer in working condition that was in pretty bad cosmetic shape off a 750. It shares the same drive ratio as a 650 and should work (in theory). I proceeded to cut out the depression for the tach-drive in the lower housing of this unit with a dremel, leaving about a quarter inch around the outside. This picture shows you essentially the pieces you need, from left to right a) CB500 lower tach housing b) 1:4 ratio tach drive from a cb750 c) cutout of the lower gauge housing from the cb750 tach:



I then cut out the shape of the 750 "bracket" in the CB500 housing, centered the tach drive and drilled\bolted the whole shebang together. There were a few spots where I cut away too much material, so I just filled the gap with silicon sealant.



The needle needs a way to attach to the thicker post, and new gauge faces need to be printed to accommodate the spacing of the scale on your adapted tach drive unit. I will have my new faces in October when my parents visit (being made by a friend of theirs).

And finally... I mounted the engine in the frame this evening. I'm still a ways off, but it feels pretty monumental to have the engine back in the frame. I can finally see the results of my work starting to come together into something that looks like a motorcycle. I replaced all the frame bolts with black hex-socket bolts, which I find both nicer looking and easier to work with. With all the extra weight, the frame wouldn't balance on my motorcycle jack because of the kickstand bracket, so I had to just set it on the floor. Anyways, here's the fruits of my labor:



I guess it doesn't really look like much, but I'm very pleased with this development. Note that the rear-set placement is temporary. I actually don't mind the feel of the riding position (I'm fairly short), but I would at least have to make some shims or bend the passenger footpeg brackets to straighten out the footpegs. This is something I'll be working out a bit further down the line, I'm not worrying about it too much right now though.

You can see the giant foam covered tank in this next picture. Now that I have my bars and my rearsets and can start playing with placement, I'll be able to get a feel for how I want to form the tank for my own personal ergonomics and comfort.
 




Stay tuned, more to come soon!

Offline theofam

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2011, 08:00:11 PM »
Once you get the foam formed to your liking, are you going to fiberglass a tank based on that form?  Don't think I've seen that done on the forum yet, so my curiosity is piqued.

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2011, 03:10:59 AM »
Theofam: It will be a 4 step process for me. I will make a fully finished positive plug with the foam/body-filler/paint, glass up a 3-part mold to deal with undercuts (bottom and two top halves). I'll then make a proto-type with cheap resin and glass to ensure fit and finish, as well as to determine where seams should go. Once I'm satisfied with my mold and fabric patterns, I plan on making the final tank out of carbon-fiber w/ kevlar reinforcement through the vacuum bag process to maximize strength and minimize weight.

Depending on how long it takes me to get to that point and how my advanced composites classes unfold, I may instead do it via pre-preg material and autoclave molding.

Offline Greggo

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #113 on: September 18, 2011, 09:17:20 AM »
Nice work with the tachometers!!  I have spares that I'm going to try this on now.  I didn't even think it was doable.  I've already got the 650 cam in there (sweet upgrade BTW), and I've been running with no tach cable, and a dead 500 gauge.  Could you show me what the cut out 750 gauge housing looks like?

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #114 on: September 18, 2011, 03:10:38 PM »
Greggo: Do keep in mind I haven't had an opportunity to actually test this on a running bike. In theory everything should work as the 750 and 650 share the same tach ratio (according to every source I've found). You could also chop up 650 gauges just as easily and that would be a guaranteed fix.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures of the complete 750 lower housing while I was cutting it apart. Here's a shot of another complete one I have. If you look at the picture I posted above with the three tach parts, you can see more or less what I removed from the 750 lower housing to make the "bracket"



Make sure you mark the center point before you remove the bracket. Then it's super easy to line the bracket and the housing together and then make a corresponding hole in the 500 housing for the raised section of the bracket to fit into. I had to grind bits of the bracket here and there to avoid interfering with internal bits of the 500 housing. If you can weld, I would definitely go that route. I'm not there yet, so I just drilled and bolted them together.

On another note, I got kind of crazy with the bead blaster today:



I'm vowing to never chemical strip paint, sand or polish another part for the rest of my life, if avoidable. I love this finish. It's clean-looking, consistent, understated and when it starts to get grungy, I can bring the entire group of parts back to the same level of finish in less than two hours. PERFECT!

Offline Greggo

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2011, 04:04:13 PM »
Greggo: Do keep in mind I haven't had an opportunity to actually test this on a running bike. In theory everything should work as the 750 and 650 share the same tach ratio (according to every source I've found). You could also chop up 650 gauges just as easily and that would be a guaranteed fix.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures of the complete 750 lower housing while I was cutting it apart. Here's a shot of another complete one I have. If you look at the picture I posted above with the three tach parts, you can see more or less what I removed from the 750 lower housing to make the "bracket"



Make sure you mark the center point before you remove the bracket. Then it's super easy to line the bracket and the housing together and then make a corresponding hole in the 500 housing for the raised section of the bracket to fit into. I had to grind bits of the bracket here and there to avoid interfering with internal bits of the 500 housing. If you can weld, I would definitely go that route. I'm not there yet, so I just drilled and bolted them together.

On another note, I got kind of crazy with the bead blaster today:



I'm vowing to never chemical strip paint, sand or polish another part for the rest of my life, if avoidable. I love this finish. It's clean-looking, consistent, understated and when it starts to get grungy, I can bring the entire group of parts back to the same level of finish in less than two hours. PERFECT!

Well, feel free to send me one for 'testing'  ;D  It's no fun running without a tach after a cam swap  :'(

Nice work with the blaster, just make sure to clean any engine bits of ALL silica beads, specially those tappet covers.

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2011, 04:18:38 PM »
Yeah, I made sure to wash everything very thoroughly with soap, warm water and a soft bristle brush. I'll probably do it at least one more time before I actually bolt the parts back on the engine.

Honestly, if I'm still a ways off from a running engine by the time I get my new faces and put the units back together, I would actually consider sending the tach off to someone running a 650 cam swap to test it out for a bit. It would be a boon to folks running this swap if 750 gauge compatibility is actually confirmed.

Offline Greggo

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #117 on: September 18, 2011, 04:41:44 PM »
Yeah, I made sure to wash everything very thoroughly with soap, warm water and a soft bristle brush. I'll probably do it at least one more time before I actually bolt the parts back on the engine.

Honestly, if I'm still a ways off from a running engine by the time I get my new faces and put the units back together, I would actually consider sending the tach off to someone running a 650 cam swap to test it out for a bit. It would be a boon to folks running this swap if 750 gauge compatibility is actually confirmed.

Dude, if you're serious about it, I'm in!  Hell, I'd even send my spare gauges (650 & 500/4 tachs) and some bucks if it works, and if you'd be into making more...New business venture? 

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #118 on: September 22, 2011, 02:25:57 AM »
Greggo:

Someone else actually asked me the same thing, haha. If it does in fact work and I can come up with a better method for fabricating the parts, I would consider making more. This first round was literally an angle/bench grinder affair, lots of eyeballing :-p I'm learning to use my lathe finally, I may get a mill attachment which would make the whole process much more repeatable. A friend is learning to weld as well, I could probably convince him to weld the parts together in exchange for using my TIG welder on his projects.

I'm also terrible at removing the crimped ring clamps. I'm having a set of 2 piece bolt together clamps CNCd (much like the Joker Machine pieces offered for the 750) when I have my faces sent off so I don't have to deal with it.

If you are interested, just keep in touch, I likely won't be able to make any new progress until October when my folks visit.

EDIT:

Here's a rendering of the CAD file for the gauge clamp with the necessary dimensions for CB500 gauges (it was a real tough one to make, haha):

« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 06:37:00 PM by fantino »

Offline bootlegskate

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #119 on: October 03, 2011, 02:33:01 AM »
hows the build coming along? any updated pics of the tank your working on?

Offline SF

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #120 on: October 03, 2011, 08:42:40 AM »
was thinking the same thing....
92 wr250 sold
98 zx6r sold
04 zx10r
73 cb350 twin
75 cb550f
75 cb550f
72 r5c
rgid springer bobber project

Offline Flying J

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #121 on: October 03, 2011, 09:29:12 AM »

I'm also terrible at removing the crimped ring clamps. I'm having a set of 2 piece bolt together clamps CNCd (much like the Joker Machine pieces offered for the 750) when I have my faces sent off so I don't have to deal with it.



Here's a rendering of the CAD file for the gauge clamp with the necessary dimensions for CB500 gauges (it was a real tough one to make, haha):



Could you make one for the 750 tac? I like the idea and of it but im not willing to pay joker prices, if you can even make it for less.

Offline lucky

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #122 on: October 03, 2011, 11:58:23 AM »
You need to talk to a machine shop that works on motorcycle parts.
They will be able to help you a lot with some of these decisions.
Do NOT rely on the internet for these decisions.

Have a machinist look and measure the part. Not just show forum members photos.

No offense to forum members.

Offline fantino

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Re: 1972 CB500: "An Inherited Basket Case." Finally... AN UPDATE!
« Reply #123 on: October 05, 2011, 03:25:22 PM »
lucky: I'm not sure I understand your post or who it's directed at. What decisions are we talking about?

The pictures I post are only to give folks on here a visualization of what I'm trying to achieve. I have fully constrained CAD models and dimensional drawings to accompany what's been pictured, there's just no point in posting them here. These aren't particularly complex or high tolerance parts, but nonetheless, I can only guarantee the dimensions I've designed to be accurate for my specific gauge housings.

ffJMoore: The set (or two) I'm having made right now are being cut by on a friends CNC router 1000km away as a favour, so I don't really have plans to make any more of these for the time being. The actual cost of materials per clamp is only like $10-15, but the time involved on my end for secondary operations (turning + chamfers, threads, countersinks, etc) might not make it worthwhile.

If\when I gain better personal access to CNC equipment, however, it would be as simple as changing the relevant dimensions in my model to fit the 750 housing.

SF + Bootlegskate: Not to disappoint, but the tank is probably one of the last things I'm going to focus on. I might do some sculpting over winter, but I don't anticipate getting to the production stage for quite some time. I'm honestly a little hesitant to start, because I'm still not sure what I want it to look like... I've made countless drawings, but can't seem to settle on anything.

Once again, my Volkswagen is going to take up a bunch of my time and money, as I'm replacing all my suspension bushings and wheel bearings before it gets too cold out  >:(

[edit] accidentally posted before I finished writing...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 03:43:38 PM by fantino »