Topic: I need help with a car. ASAP!

[nobody]

So my friend just took her 2002 Land Rover Freelander into the dealership to get worked on, the cat needs to be replaced but they charge an arm and a leg. She went to pick it up after they fixed one or two other minor things, the plan was to take it to a shop and use aftermarket parts as to avoid being sodomized by Land Rover. Well, as she attempted to leave the lot the cat took it's final crap and the car isn't driveable.

My questions are these:

If I were to go down there and disconnect the exhaust before the cat, would it function well enough to get to a different shop? How many miles would be pushing it to drive like this? Or should she just get a tow truck?

[Duke McDukiedook]

If you worry about the costs of fixing a Land Rover, you clearly cannot afford a Land Rover.

Sorry to dispense the truth like that, those vehicles are the Harley Davidsons of 4X4's.

[nobody]

That's not really the point, a hastey decision was made and she's stuck. Point is, repairs at the dealership are excessive.

Can it be driven with the exhaust disconnected before the cat?

[wannabridin]

don't worry about it.  it's an 02, so is my blazer, and i don't think they're computer systems are that much more advanced than the next 2002 SUV.  if anything, go get a O2 non-fouler for a couple bucks at your local pep boys, and put it into the sensor hole before it.  if there's one after the cat, throw a non-fouler on there and secure it til you get to the shop.  there should be no reason it won't run without a kitty on there.  when you get to the shop, have em throw on a high-flow unit, like a magnaflow, and you should be able to get out of there for less than $175.  labor is cheap!  just make sure not to piss off any cops, cuz it will be LOUD!   

[Gordon]

Why would you need to mess with the O2 sensor before the catalytic converter?  Wouldn't you only have to worry about it if there's one after the cat?

[wannabridin]

possibly.  i know that since i don't have an 02 sensor after my cat on my truck, when i had it hacked off to go to the exhaust shop, i kept getting fouls, so i threw a no foul on there, the one before the cat, and i made it to the shop just fine!  some vehicles are different, depends on the programming.  run just one after the cat to see what happens, and then throw one on before it.  just my $.02

[nobody]

Can you explain more about this O2 fouler? Is it's sole function to prevent the check engine light from coming on (already on) or will it help to correct the mixture while it's driven to another shop?

[wannabridin]

it just tells the engines computer that the o2 sensor is reading as it should.  *correction on my part* it's a spark plug no-fouler, and when used on an 02 sensor, will bring the sensor out of the exhaust tube far enough so it won't read anything weird.  

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1387-o2-sensor-modification-using-spark-plug-non-foulers.html

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-how-tos-installations/208195-5-o2-cheater-non-fouler-how.html

for you, and the probably non-modified LR, this is just a cheap crutch to get you to the exhaust shop.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Why would you need to mess with the O2 sensor before the catalytic converter?  Wouldn't you only have to worry about it if there's one after the cat?

I agree, and there probably is one, disconnect the exhaust before the cat and it will probably muck up the electronics even more making it more undriveable.
I would call the tow truck and get it to a trusted local mechanic before you waste any more money with "quick" curb fixes.

And dump the Rover when you get the earliest opportunity, Land Rovers are money pits waiting to be driven.

[wannabridin]

And dump the Rover when you get the earliest opportunity, Land Rovers are money pits waiting to be driven.

couldn't agree with you more there!!  i just thought i'd give him the opinion of what i did, which worked jsut fine to go about 4 miles to my exhaust shop.  the only reason i say this is because a local tow will cost you quite a bit, unless you have AAA, which is free!  but it worked for me, thought i'd help

[Hannibal Smith]

I have a 1996 Land Rover I cannot kill.

130,000+ miles, only thing that went out was a fuel pump relay. That's it.

I want it to die, trust me, I have been trying, she will not quit.

[weekend_junkie]

Well, as she attempted to leave the lot the cat took it's final crap and the car isn't driveable.

I'm sorry for the intrusion, but I am laughing histerically here and had to go to the bathroom so I don't get fired from job.  If a cat taking a crap is keeping you from driving a car, well, I don't think I have anything to say that can help.  Personally, I wouldn't drive the car after the FIRST crap, let alone the final one.

[Duke McDukiedook]

I have a 1996 Land Rover I cannot kill.

130,000+ miles, only thing that went out was a fuel pump relay. That's it.

I want it to die, trust me, I have been trying, she will not quit.

Sounds like you are part of the 0.0001% club.

[scrapvalue]

The fact that the vehicle is not running now leads me to believe you really can't go wrong trying to disconnect it.
If it doesn't work you will still have to call a tow truck.
The worst thing if it runs will be how loud it is.

[nobody]

Thanks for all your feedback, guys. I'll see what happens tonight.

[78 k550]

my friend wheels with one and maybe post up some help for some local guys to help out.
pm me see if I can help.

Paul

[mgbgt89]

It's not running probably because the converter is clogged. Unhook it, jam some rebar through it and knock out all the plates, then hook it back up. What codes are you throwing? If the only thing that is wrong is a clogged cat, afterwards it will only throw a code for a post cat O2 sensor. You then should get the converter replaced 

For an off road use vehicle only.. you can get a O2 sensor simulator. Hook this up to the wires for the post cat sensor and the computer will think there is a catalytic converter in place that is working properly. No check engine light.

[mgbgt89]

If you just unhook the cat and leave it dangling, you could run into issues with fresh air back feeding into the exhaust and throwing off the pre-cat O2 sensor readings. This won't allow it to run right at all.

[69modelj]

The engine doesn't care if there is a converter in the exhaust or not.
The converter's purpose is to kill off excessive exhaust emissions.
Assuming the converter is internally damaged so as to cause an exhaust restriction severe enough to cause a no start condition, it can be removed and the vehicle driven. The upstream O2 sensor will
still send a signal to the computer for mixture control, (provided the sensor isn't located in the converter inlet assy.) and the downstream O2 signal will no longer be present, causing the MIL to illuminate and store a code for catalyst efficiancy. Crawling under there and removing the thing is a definate PIA, and probly worth the price of the tow to avoid.

[GammaFlat]

I'm in agreement with mgbgt89.  A cat's failure mode is to be plugged - you get extreme back pressure.  That happens when it overheats... which could be a condition where you're dumping fuel into the exhaust system.  Things get a little too hot in there and the innards go gooey.  I had to clear one many years ago.  They are usually a semi-straight through design.  For the temporary movement to another repair facility, it would be best to hook everything back up with a "cleared" cat.  Then get to a place where you can replace the cat.  If you attempt to modify the cat, understand that A) if you get caught doing it, you'll probably be put away for life and B) Definitely wear a respirator.  The stuff in there is bad bad bad. 

The symptoms of a plugged cat (if the car is running at all) are distinct.  The car runs like crap and the tail pipe makes a strange muffled noise with almost nothing coming out. 

Getting back to the cause of the damaged cat.  The car probably has underlying issues that caused the darn thing to plug up in the first place like dumping fuel into the exhaust.  This would make me tempted to do what others have said is possible... clear out the cat and then run it for a while with sensors setup so that you're not throwing codes.  This way you can get at the underlying cause and then be a good boy and put a good cat back in.

In terms of removing the old cat and the difficulty (good point 69modelj)... There's nothing like having a blue wrench. 

[mgbgt89]

The thing about converters, once you start to plug them for whatever reason, Running too rich, etc, it will compound overtime because the more clogged it gets, the richer it runs, the faster it plugs. You can go from a crappy running car to a non running car overnight. Don't just throw a new one on and be done with it though, find the root cause or you'll be throwing money down the drain. My friend ruined a 275 dollar brand new converter in six months because he didn't replace a 40 dollar pre-cat O2 sensor.

[traveler]

well, the EASY thing to do is throw that cat in the trash, and weld in some pipe in it's place.

~Joe

[dave500]

im with traveler,if you can open it up ,empty it and close it to look legit,ive never had a cat equipped car!(73 holden)

[78 k550]

I have a welder.

Paul

[mgbgt89]

Do you have emissions testing? Hollowing out the cat is not legal at all.. I'm pretty sure you can be stiffed with like a 10K fine for doing it. Do so at your own risk. Here in my great state of indiana, I think i'm pretty safe. I drove around my truck with open headers dumped out behind the front wheels for a while before i got the lake pipes. Never once got stopped, and that truck set off car alarms.