Author Topic: Gas soaked tire...  (Read 5262 times)

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Offline cb350twin

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Gas soaked tire...
« on: June 26, 2010, 08:21:40 pm »
Well I started up my bike today since I haven't rode it in a week. Did a 400 mile trip last week so I was all bike out lol, plus rain was in the forecast today(& of course it didn't rain) ::).
Thing is I forgot to turn off the gas and the bike was on its side stand... gas leaked out of the tubes and soaked the rear tire all day. Now its swelled and bulged and gummy and sticky like in one area. I washed didn't do much is it still safe to ride? Will it return to normal after time or is something I just have to wear off? Tires almost cashed but I was just wondering if its safe?
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Offline Frostyboy

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2010, 08:34:45 pm »
If the tyre is deformed as you described, I certainly wouldn't be riding on it.
If it's nearly worn out anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to change it.
Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
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Offline jakecb420

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2010, 09:30:09 pm »
sounds like a good time to burn it off.
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Offline cb350twin

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2010, 09:36:28 pm »
well I did a quick little ride got rid of the stickiness. Its cupped a little still but I think its nothing a few more miles wont solve.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2010, 10:44:45 pm »
if your going to replace the tyre find a quiet area and practise locking up the rear brake.

Offline Motoguy23

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2010, 12:29:37 am »
if your going to replace the tyre find a quiet area and practise locking up the rear brake.

or a good wall to put your front wheel against and smoke the tire through all the gears.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 12:44:26 am »
err cb350 twin smoking tyres?or burn out clutch trying?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2010, 01:34:52 am »
Fuel will change the chemistry {for want of a better way of putting it} of the tyre and renders it useless.
If it were mine i would not even ride it to get it changed......Toss it and get a new one ASAP

Mick
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Offline Nikkisixx

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 05:13:33 am »
I had a GS750 Suzuki teach me how to drift in turns by drizzling gas on my rear tire as I rode.  I must confess it was not a lesson I wanted to learn  :o  I'd change it.
It is a proven fact that modifying a SOHC Honda in any way will bring on the apocalypse.

wdhewson

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 05:28:22 am »
Solvents, gasoline in this case, will dissolve into the rubber, the tire, and cause the rubber to swell.  

This is a reversible process.  When the source of gasoline is cut off, then the gasoline dissolved in the rubber diffuses to the envelope of the tire and evaporates away.  Ideally this process is completely reversible with no real change in the rubber "structure" or dispersion of rubber chemicals.  For example, the swelling could physically stretch the rubber to the point of breaking vulcanizing chemical bonds, with the result being a weak rubber.  Or chemically, perhaps the gasoline pushed aside some of the rubber's antioxidants.

My guess is that the gasoline dissolution and then disappearance did very little to the rubber, and you should use the tire, but keep an eye on it.  But you should be keeping an eye on your tires all the time anyway.

Keep us informed of the "experiment".  Don
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 05:32:05 am by wdhewson »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 04:11:57 pm »
Solvents, gasoline in this case, will dissolve into the rubber, the tire, and cause the rubber to swell.  

This is a reversible process.  When the source of gasoline is cut off, then the gasoline dissolved in the rubber diffuses to the envelope of the tire and evaporates away.  Ideally this process is completely reversible with no real change in the rubber "structure" or dispersion of rubber chemicals.  For example, the swelling could physically stretch the rubber to the point of breaking vulcanizing chemical bonds, with the result being a weak rubber.  Or chemically, perhaps the gasoline pushed aside some of the rubber's antioxidants.

My guess is that the gasoline dissolution and then disappearance did very little to the rubber, and you should use the tire, but keep an eye on it.  But you should be keeping an eye on your tires all the time anyway.

Keep us informed of the "experiment".  Don

This is totally contradictory to what i have been told and i have changed out a couple of "fuelled" tyres before as well. A "guess" isn't good enough when all you have to rely on is 2 tyres, if one is screwed then its all over red rover. TOSS THE TYRE AND GET A NEW ONE.......You are on 2 wheels, you want them BOTH to be in perfect condition .........Why would you even take the risk.... ???

Mick
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 04:28:50 pm »
Quote
Like the wheels, your tyres have several formidable enemies, including water, formaldehyde, petroleum distillates, ultraviolet (UV) light and ozone. Water washes away the natural oils and waxes in rubber that keep it elastic. Formaldehyde and petroleum distillates act as solvents, eating rubber on contact.

Quote
Avoid using chemicals and shampoos containing petroleum products as they may eat through the rubber and damage your tyres.
         and that is in small amounts....

Quote
Do not use detergents or chemicals containing petroleum products for cleaning or polishing your tyres.

Search google and you will find out that the petroleum changes or destroys polymers in the rubber..

Mick





« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 04:52:30 pm by retro rocket »
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline mrrch

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2010, 04:46:28 pm »
It won't shrink back. we had a customer bring in a tracked snow thrower that leaked fuel out of the carb and all over one track and it got bigger/expanded (looked really strange). Two winters later we ended up replacing the track because it never went back to normal size. Replace that tire.
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wdhewson

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 05:48:12 pm »
Gents:  I was surprised to learn early in my career that tire rubber is formulated with a rather large amount of oil.  Yes, oil.  These are known collectively as "rubber extender oils".  So, in fact, our tires are already swollen with petroleum product, and it is done on purpose.  Google around on rubber extender oils and see what you find to share with us.

Tires are amazing products and are not a delicate as we sometimes think.  All the engine power, all the braking torque, slapping into potholes, and repeated flex cycles.  And they don't frequently fall apart.

Hopefully Mr. CB350Twin will share the outcome.  If he lives, having used the tire!

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2010, 06:04:40 pm »
Gents:  I was surprised to learn early in my career that tire rubber is formulated with a rather large amount of oil.  Yes, oil.  These are known collectively as "rubber extender oils".  So, in fact, our tires are already swollen with petroleum product, and it is done on purpose.  Google around on rubber extender oils and see what you find to share with us.

Tires are amazing products and are not a delicate as we sometimes think.  All the engine power, all the braking torque, slapping into potholes, and repeated flex cycles.  And they don't frequently fall apart.

Hopefully Mr. CB350Twin will share the outcome.  If he lives, having used the tire!

I have known this {Oil based products in tyres} for over 30 years and my advice is based on fact not speculation. Put some oil on the ground then put some petrol on it  and low and behold it starts to break down.......just like your tyres.
Silly comparison really.....You are  completely wrong about our tyres being " already swollen with petroleum product", they are full of "oil" based products , nothing like petroleum at all. Just remember that you are giving someone advice based on your own speculation that is likely to cause the rider harm. Send an email to any tyre manufacturer and you will get the same response i am giving you now.   Just as a matter of interest vasoline and a myriad of other products and cosmetics are oil based, do you then recommend putting petrol on your face..... ???

I'll say it again,that tyre is screwed, get a new one ...

Mick
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

wdhewson

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 06:40:00 pm »
Retro Rocket:

See the attached link and keep reading about the use of rubber extender oils.

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENWPOESFlexon.pdf

Gasoline doesn't break oil down, otherwise the fuel dilution of crankcase oils would be problematic.

In the final analysis, you are responsible for your own education, not me.  Don

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 07:05:15 pm »
Don, i am not trying to get into a pissing match here but your examples are irrelevant and you are not listening to what i am saying, 1 of the quotes i used earlier was a quote from a guy from Pirelli tyres.
Quote
Gasoline doesn't break oil down, otherwise the fuel dilution of crankcase oils would be problematic.

You couldn't be more wrong mate, petrol is a distillate and a volatile liquid, it hugely different to the oil it originally came from and has more in common with the way alcohol is made from water, yeast and sugar, once distilled it has not much in common with the original substances,  PETROL DOES BREAK DOWN OIL, if it didn't, you wouldn't wash down your bike or car parts with it. For your information there is a #$%* load more to a tyre than oil based products and once again petrol breaks down the polymers in a tyre and renders it dangerous.
Petrol degradation of oil in the crankcase IS A HUGE PROBLEM.!!!   thats why in 2 stroke engines they use an entirely different oil. If you have fuel in your 4 stroke crankcase your oil is #$%*ed....Which makes your next quote laughable.... ??? .

Quote
In the final analysis, you are responsible for your own education, not me.

Nice that you revert to insults to make your point, education doesn't make you smart.......and ignorance is no excuse. ::)


Mick

PS ....I thought it was common knowledge that oil products were used in making tyres, you carry on like its a relatively new discovery and your link doesn't say a bloody thing about petrol degrading rubber and there isn't even a MSDS there that would contain all the warnings. Do yourself a favor and email a Motorcycle tyre company and save yourself any more embarrassment.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 07:19:47 pm by retro rocket »
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline laser145

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 07:38:42 pm »
IF this is even a debatable issue... wouldn't you want to err on the side of safety?

wdhewson

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2010, 07:40:39 pm »
I seem to have caused you some pain.  But your pain is your response, and your responsibility.  

A careful review of my words finds me not wanting to revise them, and any interested readers will make whatever technical judgments they are inclined to make.  

Let's blame the Aussie vs. Canuk versions of English for an inability to successfully communicate.  No more to write.  Don

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2010, 08:45:12 pm »
IF this is even a debatable issue... wouldn't you want to err on the side of safety?

So you would think.

I am not taking anything personally except the safety of fellow forum members, and this may surprise Mr Hewson but i am right and i know what i am talking about. I very rarely add advice to a post unless i know what i am talking about and i am also here to learn. A little insight Mr Hewson, i do industrial maintenance for a living mate and regularly use Hydrochloric Acid, petro chemical solvents heavy solid 2 part epoxy's and lots of very nasty products. We store all our chemicals in Chemical resistant containers because most of the products we use eat through just about anything else. Petrochemical solvents and most petrochemicals eat plasticisers and polymers for breakfast. I am not trying to convince the guy with the screwed tyre, i am telling him that his tyre is stuffed, Mr Hewson is making a pile of baseless statements based on his opinion and i am here to tell you all that his opinion is wrong. I am definitely in no pain buddy but i am alarmed that you would tell someone to ride a motorcycle which is dependent on both wheels being correct and safe to ride on something that is clearly not. I, unlike you, am confidant with my reply as it is based on personal experience and what i have been told by motorcycle experts and what i have read on the subject, this stemmed from an experience i had while working in a large motorcycle shop in Sydney nearly 30 years ago. I turned onto a main road covered in diesel, not only did the truck driver tell me to get the diesel off my tyres straight away { and i did} but after getting the same advice later at work i spoke to the Michelin rep about what i was told and he reiterated the remarks from the truck driver, who as a matter of fact was carrying dangerous goods and would have been educated on the chemicals that he carried. So speculate away Mr Hewson but all my information is based on REAL experience both in the motorcycle industry and the chemical industry.... I consider what you are telling the OP irresponsible and in fact quite dangerous. Oh...and in case you don't understand English real well, one of my quotes was from PIRELLI, i think they know their product a little better than you old chap......


Quote
Contact with oil or gasoline may cause contamination of the rubber compound making the tyre unsuitable for use. Wipe off any oil or gasoline immediately with a clean rag .

That is from Metzelers own site and it only refers to contact, the tyres in question here were soaked....
Look in the tyre storage section..

http://www.metzelermoto.com/web/products/technology/maintenance/default.page


From the horses mouth....what more can i say....

Mick

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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Frostyboy

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2010, 11:22:23 pm »
I agree Mick. Change the bl00dy tyre (tire)! As if there's not enough hazards out there for us already, why would you want to take another with you on a ride?

If the tyre is deformed as you described, I certainly wouldn't be riding on it.
If it's nearly worn out anyway, I wouldn't hesitate to change it.

Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators.
We haven't met yet.
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wdhewson

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2010, 05:30:17 pm »
I am reminded of some ancient Japanese wisdom. 

In debate, he who raises his voice first loses.  This wisdom provides two interesting points.  First, it provides incentive for civil conduct.  Second, the overall intellect is the sum of scholastic intellect and emotional intellect.  Raising your voice reveals a loss of emotional control and reveals an underdeveloped emotional intellect.  With emotional intellect being such an important part of overall intellect, the underdeveloped emotional intellect means a deficient overall intellect.

In case you've missed the point, please stop shouting at me. 

And you still need to do you homework on rubber extender oils.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2010, 06:18:04 pm »
Not wanting to get into an argument myself mate, but I think it was actually a Chinese proverb you were thinking of, which goes: "He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument".

Here's another one I thought interesting: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people, so full of doubts".

And back to the original poster, mate, if you value your life as much as most people do, pony up the dough and buy yourself a new tire. If your insurance company saw this thread, they'd cancel your insurance. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline nancy

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2010, 07:46:01 pm »
Amen.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gas soaked tire...
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2010, 08:06:37 pm »
I am reminded of some ancient Japanese wisdom.  

In debate, he who raises his voice first loses.  This wisdom provides two interesting points.  First, it provides incentive for civil conduct.  Second, the overall intellect is the sum of scholastic intellect and emotional intellect.  Raising your voice reveals a loss of emotional control and reveals an underdeveloped emotional intellect.  With emotional intellect being such an important part of overall intellect, the underdeveloped emotional intellect means a deficient overall intellect.

In case you've missed the point, please stop shouting at me.  

And you still need to do you homework on rubber extender oils.


This is like trying to teach a rock to swim..... ???

By trying to make yourself sound intelligent you appear to be #$%*in stupid......Check the other replies mate you are the minority of one. Oh and you need to do your homework on tyres because your education is getting in the way of common sense.  While sitting on your high and mighty perch  have a think about what would happen if this guy that you are giving misinformation has a bad accident because your too #$%*in smug to admit that you know #$%* and are absolutely wrong. If a bike shop gave me your advice i would sue the living arse off them if it caused me an accident. You are obviously too smart to read what the actual tyre companies say about their products and once again i suggest you email Michelin or Metzeler seeing as though you have your head that far up your arse you can't see the light...I just read back through you petty self absorbed posts and was wondering if you are a politician because you are one from the school of "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bull#$%*"   And remember mate, you were the one that reverted to name calling because you couldn't get your own way........

I can't believe that someone on this forum would be stupid enough to give such bad advice, to anyone reading this, if you ever soak your tyres in petrol remove and destroy the tyre as soon as possible.....

Mick
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 08:40:42 pm by retro rocket »
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

 

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