Topic: $25 '78 CB550F (re)build. In over my head!

[Veemo]

Hello everyone.

I recently began shopping around for a used Honda bike again. You know, something a little older, simple, and cheap that I would be able to work on with my limited experience and budget. Of course, years ago I had decided on the CB series. Yesterday, two days into my search, I found an ad on Craigslist for a 1978 550F, engine disassembled for rebuild, all parts accounted for. The guy was moving to new hampshire from Oregon and was selling it for $25.

So later that day I was the proud owner of my very own Honda bike, or rather, a few cardboard boxes full of oily metal bits, a small pile of some larger pieces, and a frame with at least the front end and electrical still intact. It even came with a brand new Clymer shop manual. I paid for it all with, literally, cash leftover from barhopping last weekend.

Sounds great, right? Well it is, but there's a problem. My only experiene with motorcycles is when my dad bought my brother and I a Honda 90 and a shop manual like six years ago. We played around with it for a couple weeks, but it was already screwed up beyond what we could fix. I have worked on my car a lot, and I am very mechanically minded and I love fixing things, but again, I don't know #$%* about motorcycles except that I want to put this pile together and ride it around.

This will either be a really fun project and a good excuse to drink beer and play with tools in the garage, or an ungodly pain in the ass. Let's all find out together!

[fastbroshi]

Does it have a title?  Still a good deal, you could sell the parts and very quickly come out on top.

[Veemo]

Hello again!

     Having had a whole evening and an afternoon to look this thing over I have a situation report for you all. The frame is in good shape, almost no rust.
     The headers/muffler are a little rusty, no biggie, they're getting powder coated anyway.
     As far as the engine goes, the clutch and gearbox are intact and still attatched to the block. The upper part of the engine is thoroughly disassembled. The Cylinder Block was honed at a local machinist, it's now pristine. The pistons look good, a bit of carbon built up on the tops, otherwise pretty clean. The valves, valve springs, and other valve-related bits are organized in a little tackle-box type case and have small amounts of gunk. The starter motor, oil pump, oil filter/cooler, alternator, and left side cover have been removed and are accounted for. To recap, the left side and top end of the engine are quite disassembled, and the right side is intact.
     The rear end of the bike is also taken apart, tire, suspension, swingarm, etc. The electrical system is good, all the proper wires run to all the proper places and lights, fuses seem to all be accounted for, but I'm not too worried about fuses. No battery, but again, not worried (i'll happily kick start it if/when we get to that point). Footpegs, kickstart arm, foot controls, axles engine mounting bolts, etc. are in a cardboard box.
     Aside from that there are a few bags of nuts, bolts, washers, etc. that were on the PO's workbench that we threw into a couple ziplocs for the road. Today I began cleaning, bagging, labeling and indexing the piles of parts.
     what I'm worried about is stuff that may have gotten into the engine with the crankshaft and stuff, how can I clean that out? Also, i know I will need to replace a lot of gaskets, seals, and O-rings. Can anyone recommend a good source for these? No title, but i'm looking into what it would take to get one in Oregon. Any Oregon-specific info would be great!
     Thanks, everyone. I will post some pictures of my new pile super fun headache project tomorrow.

[rickmoore24]

It's going to be all those things Veemo. The pain in the ass parts aren't so bad with the knowledge you can tap into from the guys on this site, the search function is the shizz! It'll answer more questions than not. It helped heaps when I rebuilt my basketcase 750. Maybe do like fastbroshi said and piece it out to make some cash for a more first time builder friendly project. Believe it or not, I think taking a bike apart and putting it back together is easier than starting with a box of parts you've never seen before and turning it into a bike. It may sound crazy but the memories burned into my head of the deconstruction, especially the photos I took, ;P were immensely helpful when putting my bike back together again. Good luck with the build!

[fastbroshi]

  For gaskets you could go for a Vesrah set.  Pay attention to the cam chain tensioner while the top end's apart.  The little gear inside it needs to be in good shape and the rubber bow should be serviceable.   Also check the FAQs for installing the cam correctly as well as the rocker cover.  The cover needs to be done with care as you could bend a valve or damage the rockers easily. 

  You'll need a battery in good condition for the bike to run correctly, their electrical systems won't provide enough spark to the ignition and lights w/o one. 

[Veemo]

Thanks! This thread alone is fast becoming a wealth of information for me!

Playing around last night I found that I seem to be missing a throttle cable, but it could just be in a box somewheres. Again, I was impressed at what good condition everything is in. some wear on the pistons, but nothing that I could feel with my fingers. normal, i guess, after 25k miles. very little rust all around. Just some grease and crap buildup, nothing I can't tackle with some Dawn, WD-40, Engine Brite, or if I really need it, industrial degreaser from work.

I cleaned off the exhaust ring collars. wire wheel at work took it from rusty and dirty to shiny and new. Off to a good start with the cleaning!

As far as cleaning the pistons, I can't seem to scrub that stuff off the tops. Does it just need to sit upside down in a bath of engine brite for a while?  I was thinking about taking it to work Monday (I work in a metal shop) to use a pnaumatic die grinder with a .5" wire cup brush on it. That's mostly how I cleaned the exhaust collars. or I could chuck it in a lathe and just cut that crap off, careful not to cut into the metal. That would at least be a good way to learn about using the lathe (i have no idea, now), and since my number one goal in this project is to learn stuff it seems like an appropriate move. Any suggestions would, again, be appreciated. headed over to the FAQ for a while.

Thanks again!

[Veemo]

Thought I'd share some pics of this pile. These are from the day I brought it home.

[Veemo]

Here are a few pics of the wire-wheeling cleaning I did yesterday. Night and day difference, I must say. I'll probably do the same for the little half-ring clamps that fit inside these, since it worked out so well.

[Stev-o]

You got a good deal, there is easliy $500 in parts there, probably more.

Click on this link and save it for referance, it will help to determine unknown parts and where they go [and part #'s if you need to order.

http://www.hondaparts-direct.com/fiche_select2.asp?category=MOTORCYCLES&make=HONDA&year=1977&fveh=2944

Also, Honda did not make a 550F in '78. It is either a '77 F or a '78 K.
Back then, if a bike was manufactured in '77 but sold in '78, it could have been titled as a '78. Does it have the buld date plate on the frame? [by the neck].

Good Luck and have fun with it and drink beer!!
[I have a frig next to my workbench full of cerveza!!]

[Veemo]

Yes, it has a little sticker that says 1978 model near the neck. I'll have to look up the identification stuff for this, I just assumed it was the 550F because it has a 4-into-1 muffler. The muffler seems to be one solid piece, though, different from the muffler at Honda Parts Direct. I can't go look at it now, it's at work awaiting it's fate (possible free powder coating, or at least sandblasting. One of the girls who works at the powder coaters is into motorcycles, and pretty friendly). I'll check for any threading I may have missed on it. In the long run I may make up some custom pipes at the shop, as well as some nice stainless cafe style handlebars and whatever else my heart desires. We have some really talented fabricators, and I have a good imagination!

Cleaned up the bags and bags of nuts, bolts, and washers today. I'll finish rinsing the soapy water tomorrow, and start sorting them out by size and type. Also, I hit the bottom of the engine with some Engine Brite, a stiff brush, and soapy water. The combination of the three left a little something to be desired, so I'll bring home a little industrial strength degreaser from work and see what that does. I know when I've used it in the past I was amazed at what it could do to even the nastiest, greasiest messes.

Also, I need a new head gasket, but from what I've seen they're almost as much as a whole gasket and o-ring set. I'm sure I'm missing a few o-rings or seals somewheres in this mess, should I just go for the whole set and replace them all? $100 for the entire set doesn't seem too bad, since aside from a few washers (free from the shop) that seems to be all I need to put this together. Well, that and about a handful of six-packs.

[KB02]

I saw a drum rear rake, so probably a K.

Yeah, get the whole set of gaskets. No sense in using old gaskets since the whole engine is apart anyway.

You got a good deal. Throw your swing arm on and get the rear tire mounted. That way you'll have a roller at least if you need to move it around. 

[articblue]

Wow awesome start. The shiny exhaust flanges that you cleaned up already make your 25 bucks worth it.

good luck, i'm going to keep an eye on this.

[Veemo]

yes, kb02, i looked at the serial numbers and stuff and it is indeed a 1078 model 550K. Good call. The engine and body serial numbers dont match, will that make it easier to register and title? I could title it as a home built bike, probably.

every so often when im staring this project down I notice something is missing. Not really a big deal, for $25 i couldn't complain if there were no engine at all. Most recently I discovered that a throttle cable is missing, as well as the speedo cable (not really essential to make it go, but would be nice). Are there any "roll your own throttle cable" kits available? It seems simple enough, but I haven't seen any. What do you do if you have different handlebars and need a longer/shorter cable?

I sorted out and bagged bolts and nuts and screws today. Im going to hit up Fastenal and replace all the stupid phillip's screws with stainless steel Allen screws for the engine. I'll put in an order for a Vesrah upper gasket set soon, maybe I can start putting things back where they go on the fourth. Can anyone recommend a place to buy from? Price shopping seems like a waste when so many of you have ordered them.

[Stev-o]

Frame and engine serial numbers will not match, that is the norm, just use the frame #'s for the title.

[Veemo]

Went off to Fastenal today and got a few Allen Head Stainless Bolts to replace the engine screws. Walked out with half and the other half will be in Monday. I only got replacements for what is taken apart now, which, again, is the upper half and left side (starter, oil pump, etc). about $8 for all that, and I'll replace the rest later on. I also brought in the little exhaust half-ring clamps for wire wheeling, and they turned out awesome! I washed the air intake stuff, and gave it a little Armor-All. I'll wash the frame really well within the next few days, mount the engine and put the rear wheel back on.

Started thinking about re-wiring it and cleaning up the clusterf--k of wiring this thing seems to have. The plan is to get some 2 strand, 3 strand, 5 strand, etc.wires rather than the bunches of single-strand wires. Bundle the finished wiring in some Tech-Flex. Clean.

I also started thinking about color. I want to keep it all simple, so I'm thinking all matte black, with just a few color accents.



something like that, but without the "Honda" and stripes (my tank was sanded/primered by the PO). Maybe paint the brake calipers, or paint all the hoses and cables. Like I said, something simple. What do y'all think?

[fastbroshi]

I wouldn't paint the hoses and cables, chances are it would look gaudy.  A dark silver or grey might come out okay though.  Some of the older Hondas came with silver jacketed cables.   

[tweakin]

Great find.  Eugene must be a hidden gem for sohc, lol.  Keep up the good work and enjoy the build.

-tweak

[Veemo]

Well, hello again!

I've been really busy the last few days, and I'm going to be even busier while my girlfriend is out of town until the 12th. My cousin came over thursday and we scrubbed down the frame in the driveway. We had good luck applying Dawn directly to a wet brush and scrubbing scrubbing scrubbing. I heated some water on a kettle for the really greasy areas (the stand/swingarm area was horrible!) and we gave it a few doses of foaming engine degreaser, hot water, wash-rinse-and repeat. Once that all looked good we hauled it back into the garage and hefted the engine into the frame, scratched our head at all the nuts and bolts, and sort of fastened it to the frame.

Today I went to Harbor Freight (I can't believe I've never been in there before!) and got some feeler gauges, vernier calipers, and a bolt gauge. $7, sweet! Came home and looked at the parts fiche, figured out what we did wrong and got all the right bolts in all the right places. I'll get a torque wrench later on and torque the bolts, but for now they're "tight." Put the rear suspension together, threw the tire and chain on, and because I was on a roll, brought the pistons in to check them with the calipers and feeler gauges. I was pleasantly surprised to find that they were all well within the wear ranges, and should have a lot of usable life left in them. Cleaned them up in the garage, and finished the day with some gasket scraping. I found that WD-40 helps soften the gasket stuff (seems to anyway), and a razor blade glass scraper, held perpendicular to the surface, gets most of the gasket off without marring the aluminum. I'll finish them with a fine Scotchbrite pad to get the last bits of gasket. I'm taking the scraping slowly, it will be a while before I get the gasket set and I don't want to ruin any of the surfaces.

I could not for the life of me figure out how the damn rear brake switch mounts to the frame. I found the bracket in the parts fiche, but where the hell does it bolt to? The battery box bolt looks like the best spot, but its about 2 inches too high, no matter how I adjust the switch and lever. If anyone can post a picture of theirs or just tell me I would appreciate it, if not i'll start a thread asking. It's the '78 assembly, where the spring goes to a lever deal, not to the brake arm. Thanks!!

Not sure what's on the list tomorrow, but there will be beer!

[Veemo]

Forgot to upload pics with the lats post. I'm about 1 week in to the actual work. I picked it up  on a Thursday and didn't really do much till Saturday. Serious progress, but that's what happens when you're as obsessive as I am! Enjoy

[Stev-o]

You're def on a roll!

Good Luck and Happy Fourth.

[traveler]

good stuff!

You are so close right now....it'd almost be a shame not to take it down 100% and powder the frame gloss black, and drop in some tapered roller bearings in the head tube.

~Joe

[P_Camps]

I could not for the life of me figure out how the damn rear brake switch mounts to the frame. I found the bracket in the parts fiche, but where the hell does it bolt to? The battery box bolt looks like the best spot, but its about 2 inches too high, no matter how I adjust the switch and lever. If anyone can post a picture of theirs or just tell me I would appreciate it, if not i'll start a thread asking. It's the '78 assembly, where the spring goes to a lever deal, not to the brake arm. Thanks!!

Not sure what's on the list tomorrow, but there will be beer!

Hey I put a picture of my exhaust up in the main forum and it shows the assembly.

I have a 78 550k as well. 

Hope this helps you figure out where it mounts.