Topic: clutch problem, maybe transmission?

[Silverback]

I know this sounds strange, but pull the switch on the clutch lever and try it, or just have somebody push the switch while the bike is running and in gear to see if it dies. Grasping at straws here!

Since you have been messing around with the electrical, something weird might have happened. I had to rewire this guys Royal Enfield because it would only run if you had the high beams on, turn signal switch pushed right and the run switch in the off position.  

[laser145]

I know this sounds strange, but pull the switch on the clutch lever and try it, or just have somebody push the switch while the bike is running and in gear to see if it dies. Grasping at straws here!

Switch on the clutch lever? I don't follow...

[Silverback]

The clutch lever on the left side of the handle bar actuates a switch when released. Follow the wiring to this switch. Part #3 in this picture.

[laser145]

The clutch lever on the left side of the handle bar actuates a switch when released. Follow the wiring to this switch. Part #3 in this picture.

I see the cable on my bike... although I've only messed with the electrical by the regulator and rectifier, I haven't touched the headlight.

Also, I notice a slight rattling sound when the bike is running in neutral, when I pull in the clutch the sound goes away.

[Silverback]

I understand you have not touched that, but it is connected to stuff in the area you have been messing with via a connector in the headlight bucket. I'm not saying you have to try it, but if it was driving fine before you started messing with the electrical stuff, then I am deducing is more than likely electrical. Simple as they may seem , strange wires can get connected to each other simply based on color.
When you release the clutch while in gear, you stall. So, what happens when you release the clutch? You begin to roll forward until you think you might be moving. Then you release the clutch more, contacting this small insignificant switch that might have been inadvertently associated with another electrical system on your bike. 

Again, Just grasping and straws.

[whitesonj]

This may be of no help at all.. But I have a 1980 650 Custom that had a similar problem.

Adjusting the clutch COMPLETELY cured the problem.

The manual / procedure I followed is here (see the bottom row, first pic on the left, and the one to the right of it):
http://cosky0.tripod.com/id3.html

Honestly, if when you pull in the clutch, shift into first gear, and the bike doesn't lurch; then it's most likely some other issue.

What I mean is this: If it's stalling when you let out the clutch (while giving it gas) it shouldn't stall.... It may over rev or the clutch may slip but it shouldn't stall (unless your letting out the clutch too quick.. But I assume you know how to operate a manual). If the clutch needs re-lubed as you stated here:

Hondaman: "When the cork plates sit in the squeezed position for a long time (months to years) they slowly squish all the oil out of them. The oil left on the surface of the plates will work OK for the first few miles, but if the bike is then only started and driven a short distance each time, the oil never gets back into the plates. Then, short rides after that will not lube the plates at all, and if this continues, the plates will start to glaze. If heavy throttle is then applied, they burn. It takes a concerted ride, like a full tankful of gas, all at once, on a warm day, to re-oil the plates. This is true of nearly all of the vintage wet clutch setups, and many of the modern ones as well."

My bike was sitting for years, I got it running and have put about 40 miles on it, but always on short trips...

So I THINK that's what I'm dealing with... but I'm not sure, and still would love to hear other opinions.

Then try giving it - ahem, I take NO responsibility if you pop the clutch - more gas as you let out the clutch... Like, 4,000+ rpm's worth.

You know, anything to get it rolling under it's own power.

BUT

The last time something like this happened to me the bike was out of gas (and yes, I am thoroughly ashamed by this).........

When you let out the clutch in gear, does it at least begin to roll before it dies?

[laser145]

It does begin to roll... goes maybe 6 inches. The problem really feels mechanical, not electrical. That being said, I could easily be wrong, and I'll certainly entertain and test all theories.

I appreciate the help thus far. Tomorrow I'm going to drain the oil and pull the clutch (I'm due for an oil change anyway) then see if the plates are stuck. If they are, I'll measure them, sand them, soak them in 20w50 overnight, then reinstall...

I figure it won't hurt to go through this, and I'll learn along the way. After I get it back together, I'll adjust it to spec...

Cheers

[scottly]

I suspect you have an internal transmission problem, like a bent or broken shift fork. Doesn't sound like stuck clutch plates to me. Sorry.

[laser145]

I suspect you have an internal transmission problem, like a bent or broken shift fork. Doesn't sound like stuck clutch plates to me. Sorry.

I don't like your opinion  and I hope you're wrong! I want to live in my fantasy world as long as possible!

Any transmission issues require pulling the motor, yes?

[scottly]

Again, sorry, and for your sake, I hope I'm wrong, too! Yes, trans work requires pulling the motor, AND splitting the cases. It sounds like your trans is going into two gears at the same time;= lockup.

[laser145]

Again, sorry, and for your sake, I hope I'm wrong, too! Yes, trans work requires pulling the motor, AND splitting the cases. It sounds like your trans is going into two gears at the same time;= lockup.

Ehhhh.....

[laser145]

I've opened up my clutch anyway and started a thread about it:http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=74777.0

I can mess with the clutch now, as I'm not afraid to do it outside my apartment on the street. The transmission will have to wait until I have a better garage space... I'm trying to make some connections in Brooklyn and get something worked out... no luck yet.

Cheers

[laser145]

I understand you have not touched that, but it is connected to stuff in the area you have been messing with via a connector in the headlight bucket. I'm not saying you have to try it, but if it was driving fine before you started messing with the electrical stuff, then I am deducing is more than likely electrical. Simple as they may seem , strange wires can get connected to each other simply based on color.
When you release the clutch while in gear, you stall. So, what happens when you release the clutch? You begin to roll forward until you think you might be moving. Then you release the clutch more, contacting this small insignificant switch that might have been inadvertently associated with another electrical system on your bike. 

Again, Just grasping and straws.

What is the actual function of the switch?

[Silverback]

It is a safety measure to prevent you from starting the bike while in gear, without the clutch engaged. It is used in conjunction with the neutral switch through a series of grounds. 

Since you have your handy voltmeter out, see post 12 for an easy 30 second test. Would be funny if this was the issue after all of the mechanical meddling you have been doing. 

To me, any sudden engine stoppage while running feels mechanical, regardless of the cause. Big, loud clunks or metal grinding would clue me in that it is "probably" mechanical.

[laser145]

It is a safety measure to prevent you from starting the bike while in gear, without the clutch engaged. It is used in conjunction with the neutral switch through a series of grounds. 

Since you have your handy voltmeter out, see post 12 for an easy 30 second test. Would be funny if this was the issue after all of the mechanical meddling you have been doing. 

To me, any sudden engine stoppage while running feels mechanical, regardless of the cause. Big, loud clunks or metal grinding would clue me in that it is "probably" mechanical.

I really hope you're right. I haven't had time to mess with it in a few days. I've got a new clutch cable in, but haven't pulled the plates out yet... I suppose I should continue on and do that since I'm so close.

I'll come back with my results by Saturday.

Cheers

[Cuts Crooked]

Interesting! I've found that clutch switch wire pulled completely out on my K8. Doesn't seem to affect a thing
The bike only starts in neutral though, whether the clutch is pulled in or not.

[750]

It is a safety measure to prevent you from starting the bike while in gear, without the clutch engaged. It is used in conjunction with the neutral switch through a series of grounds. 

Since you have your handy voltmeter out, see post 12 for an easy 30 second test. Would be funny if this was the issue after all of the mechanical meddling you have been doing. 

To me, any sudden engine stoppage while running feels mechanical, regardless of the cause. Big, loud clunks or metal grinding would clue me in that it is "probably" mechanical.

I really hope you're right. I haven't had time to mess with it in a few days. I've got a new clutch cable in, but haven't pulled the plates out yet... I suppose I should continue on and do that since I'm so close.

I'll come back with my results by Saturday.

Cheers

Have you tried getting the bike rolling then pulling in the clutch, shifting into gear and taking off.  If you do this and it drives the possibility is great that you have stuck fibers and plates.  Judging by a few conversations I've had with a friend  who had almost an identical issue it sounds as if this is your problem.  So, my advice, get it good and warmed up, get a friend and get moving as fast as your friend can push in a strait line, pull in the clutch, shift into 1st or 2ND and take off.  Then ride it like you stole it for an hour or 2 running high Rs and going threw the gears using the clutch (a lot).  Good Luck
P.S.  A long windy road would do best for this application.  I wouldn't recommend doing this in town.  Also, I would recommend a helmet and leathers and good tires.
O, and in case you meet your demise doing this, I wouldn't recomend any of it

[Silverback]

Interesting! I've found that clutch switch wire pulled completely out on my K8. Doesn't seem to affect a thing
The bike only starts in neutral though, whether the clutch is pulled in or not.

It normally would not effect anything. However, he has been messing with the electrical system. With yours pulled, you "can" start your bike in gear without clutch and it "can" jump off the side stand while doing so.

[Cuts Crooked]

It normally would not effect anything. However, he has been messing with the electrical system. With yours pulled, you "can" start your bike in gear without clutch and it "can" jump off the side stand while doing so.

Hmmm??? No....the starter won't spin unless it is in neutral, with or without the clutch, period! And it doesn't matter whether that wire is hooked up or not. REALLY! I've tried! But then I'm the third owner and there have been interesting things done to this bike at some point.........the wiring under the left side cover is a rats nest that I'm going to have to sort through sometime. Meanwhile....it runs great so I ain't messin' wif it till the off season.

I hope laser gets this sorted out, I'm following this thread daily to learn what I can from it!

[TwoTired]

The clutch switch provides an alternate ground (like the neutral switch does) so you can quickly start it in gear while in traffic.

[IainC]

Just to confirm as I had a similar issue on my 650. Does this bike have a clutch adjusting nut and screw in the middle of the clutch cover? Have you also adjusted the clutch lever and the cable at the mechanism? Adjusting all this as per the manual solved the same problem on my bike.

[Silverback]

It normally would not effect anything. However, he has been messing with the electrical system. With yours pulled, you "can" start your bike in gear without clutch and it "can" jump off the side stand while doing so.

Hmmm??? No....the starter won't spin unless it is in neutral, with or without the clutch, period! And it doesn't matter whether that wire is hooked up or not. REALLY! I've tried! But then I'm the third owner and there have been interesting things done to this bike at some point.........the wiring under the left side cover is a rats nest that I'm going to have to sort through sometime. Meanwhile....it runs great so I ain't messin' wif it till the off season.

I hope laser gets this sorted out, I'm following this thread daily to learn what I can from it!

I don't have the clutch or neutral switch on my 78F. Both are grounded out. The PO probably did something similar to your clutch switch. You have a unique situation. A normally wired bike will start in neutral, or anytime the clutch lever is pulled as TT said.

I hope he gets it sorted, too!

[laser145]

It normally would not effect anything. However, he has been messing with the electrical system. With yours pulled, you "can" start your bike in gear without clutch and it "can" jump off the side stand while doing so.

Hmmm??? No....the starter won't spin unless it is in neutral, with or without the clutch, period! And it doesn't matter whether that wire is hooked up or not. REALLY! I've tried! But then I'm the third owner and there have been interesting things done to this bike at some point.........the wiring under the left side cover is a rats nest that I'm going to have to sort through sometime. Meanwhile....it runs great so I ain't messin' wif it till the off season.

I hope laser gets this sorted out, I'm following this thread daily to learn what I can from it!

I don't have the clutch or neutral switch on my 78F. Both are grounded out. The PO probably did something similar to your clutch switch. You have a unique situation. A normally wired bike will start in neutral, or anytime the clutch lever is pulled as TT said.

I hope he gets it sorted, too!

My bike will start in neutral or any gear with the clutch pulled in... it stalls when you let the clutch out...as if you weren't giving enough throttle.

[scottly]

Just a thought, have you tried putting the bike on the center-stand, starting it up, put it in gear, and letting the clutch lever out?

[750]

I'd still go with the long strait away I really don't think this is a wiring issue but I have been wrong before.  I think you either need to pull the clutch apart and get new fibers or do as I mentioned (easier but i won't endorse it for legal reasons ) earlier