Topic: CR750 / Dick Mann replica - replica front forks from GL1000 forks ?

[Ricky_Racer]

Thanks, Rob & Phil. The overall bracket design looks similar between the two bikes. Rob, I'll drop you a PM with a couple questions. Thanks!  RR

 

[CR750]

Hey Guys,

was of the radar for a few days, but good to see others chip in !

@ Ricky Racer: Thanks for the tip, I am aware of the Yoshimura version, others mentioned it as well ( moonpie amongst others) but Kos already commented they are different and just as hard (super-expensive) to get by as the orginal.

I think the GL1000 forks on itself is decent and relatively easy mod to stiffen up the cb750 front with a period look. The catch in my case is of course I do not want to use the original mounting with an adapter bracket. Instead I want the fork to look like Dick Mann's. For that I will need to remove old brackets and weld new ones in place...  
This weekend I am fully booked, but I hope to be able to make a test with welding on some old bent f2 fork lowers next weekend. Will post results in this thread !

@ Kos:
Only just noticed your pm on the article; e-mail send !
Sander

[kos]

This is a pic of one of the works bike from Daytona, 1970.  I don't know if this is the Mann bike or not.



Another pic of a works bike at Daytona, 1970.  Notice how much different it is than Mann's bike in spec (stock forks & oil tank).



The problem you are going to run into is that not all of the works Hondas were the same.  Most of the attention is focused on the Mann bike but there were 3 other bikes that can claim to be authentic Daytona CR750s and they are not identical.  I know you are trying to replicate the Mann bike but what is the benefit of having alumium and steel replicas of magnesium and titanium one off race parts.  Like the French bike, your forks may look close but underneath they are still GL1000 forks.  My advice would be to replicate the kit bike because the end product will be much closer to what it is supposed to be.

Mann in traffic and not in the lead!  It's a good thing all those other guys broke down.

#9 Gary Nixon Triumph Trident, #25 Cal Rayborn Iron XR750, #50 Mike Hailwood BSA Rocket 3, #2 Dick Mann CR750, #75 Kel Carruthers Yamaha 350cc


#9 Gary Nixon, #50 Mike Hailwood, #61 Ron Grant Suzuki 500cc, #2 Dick Mann, #75 Kel Carruthers


Out of these 2 pictures, #2 was the only bike to actually finish the race. 
Scott

There were 4 bikes that entered and practiced for the race. They were exact in every detail, save for tires and carb sizes. The bike that is shown with standard oil "side saddle" tank was a "kit" bike. Look at seat, it has the kit seat that has rear mounts that bolt to rear fender/turn signal bolt holes. One of the British riders was trying to "win practice" as they say and crashed...it burned with such heat that Team Manager Bob Hansen, did not allow it to be raced. They instead used a kit bike that Woody Leone (Honda Dealer from Beaumont, Texas) was provided by Bob Hansen to let Ralph B. race on.

KOS

Mark@m3racing.com

[Sam Green Racing]

Small correction Mark, after crashing and burning his own bike, Ralph rode Bill Smiths bike and Billy rode the Leone CB750R. He said it was a POS in comparison.

Sam.

[voxonda]

+1 Sam,

That is what I understood from everything I read. We're all big CR fans, but that Daytona outing could have been desastreus for Honda, if the race would have been 2 or 3 laps longer. Then history would have been rewritten.

Rob.

[Phil]

Apparently, one of the two bikes, or parts thereof, bought by Bill Smith still exists - Paul McGhie has it and has rebuilt it using the original parts as patterns. He seems very knowledgeable and its a pity he doesn't contribute to this forum. He makes no claims about the forks but here is a picture!!!

[Sam Green Racing]

Apparently, one of the two bikes, or parts thereof, bought by Bill Smith still exists - Paul McGhie has it and has rebuilt it using the original parts as patterns. He seems very knowledgeable and its a pity he doesn't contribute to this forum. He makes no claims about the forks but here is a picture!!!

Phil, I think you'll find that Pauls bike is just a kit bike (CB750R) built by Steve Murray.
I think it was last raced in the 79 F1 TT in the hands of Ray Knight.
A few years ago a jurno wrote an article in Classic Racer Claiming that the Daytona CRs had a top speed of 180mph. This caused quite a stir and replies kept coming in for 12 months.
Just as it was dying down, Ray chipped in with how slow the one he had raced in the TT was. (128mph) I contacted Bill and he confirmed it was just a stock motor in the bike and a full race motor would probably not go the distance. It may have a full race motor now but it's still only a kit bike.

Sam.

[kos]

Small correction Mark, after crashing and burning his own bike, Ralph rode Bill Smiths bike and Billy rode the Leone CB750R. He said it was a POS in comparison.

Sam.

Yes, I stand corrected.

KOS

[kos]

Apparently, one of the two bikes, or parts thereof, bought by Bill Smith still exists - Paul McGhie has it and has rebuilt it using the original parts as patterns. He seems very knowledgeable and its a pity he doesn't contribute to this forum. He makes no claims about the forks but here is a picture!!!

Phil, I think you'll find that Pauls bike is just a kit bike (CB750R) built by Steve Murray.
I think it was last raced in the 79 F1 TT in the hands of Ray Knight.
A few years ago a jurno wrote an article in Classic Racer Claiming that the Daytona CRs had a top speed of 180mph. This caused quite a stir and replies kept coming in for 12 months.
Just as it was dying down, Ray chipped in with how slow the one he had raced in the TT was. (128mph) I contacted Bill and he confirmed it was just a stock motor in the bike and a full race motor would probably not go the distance. It may have a full race motor now but it's still only a kit bike.


No Honda CR750 or factory RC750 ever went 180 MPH...That is just rubish!



They did run 156 MPH at Daytona, but that was on the oval only, not thru the infield.  Our CR750 replica went 155.556 MPP at that was at start/finish and we had to come out of the "bus stop" chicane to get to radar point!

The RC750's had at most 91-93 HP at the crank...and non of those even finished the race or for that mater, even started!

KOS

7 time Daytona F750 winners
2 F750 AHRMA National Championships
Top sped record holder for all Vintage/Classic bikes Daytona 155.556 MPH
Quickest Vintage/Classic lap at Daytona 2:06

Adam Popp/M3 Racing USA





Sam.

[kos]

Apparently, one of the two bikes, or parts thereof, bought by Bill Smith still exists - Paul McGhie has it and has rebuilt it using the original parts as patterns. He seems very knowledgeable and its a pity he doesn't contribute to this forum. He makes no claims about the forks but here is a picture!!!

Picture is two bolt...probably "kit" parts. Not RC750 Works forks.

KOS

[kos]

+1 Sam,

That is what I understood from everything I read. We're all big CR fans, but that Daytona outing could have been desastreus for Honda, if the race would have been 2 or 3 laps longer. Then history would have been rewritten.

Rob.

Race was 200 miles...Honda won it. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...don't win races.


KOS

[voxonda]

Race was 200 miles...Honda won it. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...don't win races.


KOS
[/quote]

You're absolutely right Mark.

Rob

[754]

 I cant help but wonder out loud,
 what? all the CR750 bunch would be building, if Honda had not won that race...

[voxonda]

I for one have never had the 'urge' to build a CR. Like(d) the old endurance style CB 750's more. And imho it was/is better suited for endurance racing than for 'all out' racing due to its constructual limitations, ie camshaftholders/chaintensioner(s) and cylinderhead.
Liked the Yoshmura kit bikes from the years after more, though they seemed not so well prepped they where (much) faster then the factory bikes.

Rob

[Ricky_Racer]

I for one have never had the 'urge' to build a CR. Like(d) the old endurance style CB 750's more. And imho it was/is better suited for endurance racing than for 'all out' racing due to its constructual limitations, ie camshaftholders/chaintensioner(s) and cylinderhead.
Liked the Yoshmura kit bikes from the years after more.

I, for one, completely agree with you, Rob, on a multitude of levels. I appreciate creativity and innovation and find little of either in the rigorous pursuit of the "perfect" CR750 or, for that matter, the "perfect" Sandcast. I appreciate the quality restoration work that can go into either, but prefer a more "personalized" creation.     RR

[napoleonb]

Hi Sander, you might just get lucky here mate, a front fork just like the one you are looking for is now on ebay. You might have to consider your overall budget because it will blow yours away by an instant

[Ricky_Racer]

Yep... Serious money!  http://global.ebay.com/HONDA_CR_750_VERITABLE_FOURCHE_DE_COURSE_CR750_/130423282249/item    RR

[voxonda]

Looks like 'the real deal'. Watch out for that magnesium if not protected over the years!

[turboguzzi]

Yep... Serious money!  http://global.ebay.com/HONDA_CR_750_VERITABLE_FOURCHE_DE_COURSE_CR750_/130423282249/item    RR

the frame he is selling is not bad either....

http://cgi.ebay.com/PEM-MORENA-CADRE-BRAS-OSCILLANT-POUR-HONDA-750-FOUR-/130423281204?pt=FR_JG_Moto_Pi%C3%A8ces

[Doctor_D]

Looks like 'the real deal'. Watch out for that magnesium if not protected over the years!

Those are definitely not the titanium stanchions mentioned earlier in the thread - not with the rust on the worn areas. And corrosion is, as Rob points out, a huge issue with uncoated magnesium. (Not that I'd throw them in the rubbish bin, but by the looks of them I wouldn't trust them for riding anywhere but a concourse parade ground.)

[voxonda]

Just a nice picture of the 1970 Daytona race, with on the #72 Rod Pink and behind him one of the greatest, Mike Hailwood, chasing Dick Mann.

[kos]

Looks like 'the real deal'. Watch out for that magnesium if not protected over the years!

Those are definitely not the titanium stanchions mentioned earlier in the thread - not with the rust on the worn areas. And corrosion is, as Rob points out, a huge issue with uncoated magnesium. (Not that I'd throw them in the rubbish bin, but by the looks of them I wouldn't trust them for riding anywhere but a concourse parade ground.)

I was also wondering about that rusty area right above tops of fork lowers? Does look like lowers are painted, that might be why they look in good condition?


KOS

[City Boy]

Hi gang.Another dead giveaway;the Ti tubes had an increased od where they passed through the steering stem.     Rock On

[CR750]

Hey Nap,

that's a good find/tip ! Never seen one before on eBay the past 4 years, curious that it just shows up when I finally post on the Sohc forum about these legs  .
I too am wondering about the rust on these upper legs, maybe the oil has stained the legs instead of rust ?
And on a side note: it makes me wonder when somebody has something so 'valuable' in there eyes ( minimum bid of 7,000.00 EUR = 8,863.74 USD ) and they want to sell it, why do they throw it in the garden for some low quality pictures. In the grass I could have understood but draping it half over some stone pillars does not make me feel too good about the condition of the item in general ( especially if the seller is the long term owner of these articles ).

Anyway... I contacted the vendor with some questions and asked him also for some better pictures, looking forward to see his reply.

Sander

[DannyBhoy]

I was recently invited to photograph and CR/CB that a friend (second owner) just came into. I will be doing this over the coming weekend and will gladly keep an open eye for some of the things in this thred. I do know that the motor was sent to my friend ( the orginal owner) from Japan, I did notice some small frame bracing just up from the foot peg area. I will look closely at the front end.
Cheers