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Author Topic: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine  (Read 5181 times)

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Offline RupertB

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Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« on: October 22, 2010, 04:18:40 PM »
While I wait for a lottery win to fund the restoration, here is a link to some of the photos taken so far. More to follow, few of them pretty!

http://s1179.photobucket.com/albums/x397/rupert2147/
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2010, 06:26:10 PM »
I would love one of those frames. It would be interesting to see if any of our UK members could make copies of that.... ;)

Mick
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2010, 06:46:41 PM »
Very nice! ;D
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Offline Flying J

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2010, 07:38:38 PM »
Whats the story behind that frame? I have never seen one.
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Offline ryani

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2010, 07:49:42 PM »
very cool frame!  That would be great place to start a project.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2010, 07:58:17 PM »
Quote from: ffjmoore on October 22, 2010, 07:38:38 PM
Whats the story behind that frame? I have never seen one.

FFJ, google Tony  Foale and have a read, he was or still is a frame geometry guru, and has written books on the subject, good reading...

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=866&q=tony+foale&aq=0&aqi=g7&aql=&oq=Tony+Foa&gs_rfai=&fp=4e71a1270ec8e787

Mick
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750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2010, 08:04:48 PM »
And I think he "borrowed" some cues from Fritz Egli.............  ;D
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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 08:06:30 PM »
Quote from: Terry in Australia on October 22, 2010, 08:04:48 PM
And I think he "borrowed" some cues from Fritz Egli.............  ;D

Now if we could just borrow from them.... ;D

Mick
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750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 05:59:00 AM »
Tony Foale is still very much alive and well and moving back to Spain about now from the USA apparently. The CB's previous owner was in touch with him and apparently he made roughly 1000 frames in all, only about 40 of them specifically for CB750s. How many of those got wrapped around armco on tracks I don't know, but certainly a few. The previous owner of my Jota described it as 'a big wodge of drainpipe with the engine as a stressed member' (basic but not too far from the truth!) and Richard Slater of Laverda fame remarked on the similarity between the Foale and an Egli too. Apparently Carpy of Carpy fame was after the frame but the collection arrangements never materialised so I got offered it and here it is. It is a hell of a blank canvas, so the plan is to cafe racer it  - probably keep the Abe wheels given what I now know about them, see if they are all straight and them polish them up. But first thing is the engine, so I'll try to keep this thread up to date with developments.
Thanks for the help and info - great forum.
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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 02:10:45 PM »
Just to update - I have now found that the pistons are Henry Abe, but have a shorter life expectancy than the wheels! Next step is a bit of a stop to take stock kind of thing. Remove the two valves which refuse to slide out because they have been splayed by the colletts, then get the head and barrels degreased, masked and bead blasted, then sent to NBS for an opinion on the state if the bores and by association the pistons. If there is any doubt then the 810 Abes will go in the bin and I will have to save up for some Wiseco 836s. Then the fins on the barrels can be repaired where someone in the past has removed all but one or two of the retaining nuts before giving it beans with a tyre lever to fail to get the head off. At the same time I will get the wheels bead blasted and see how they look. Meanwhile this evening I put the impact driver to good use and removed some horribly chewed crosshead bolts off a casing which has been painted matt black and will be blasted and polished. Underneath I found lots of oily things which looked like bearings, springs and linkages. So they will get left well alone by me and left to Nigel at NBS to disturb, and only then if deemed essential!
So that's the next few weeks taken up then....
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 04:34:32 PM »
Interesting frame.  As mentioned it certainly owes something to Fritz Egli, however the front mounting is very similar to a Martin.  The rear suspension is also interesting, but the shock looks like it only has about 1" of travel. :o
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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 12:05:04 AM »
Re the suspension - Given the unknown nature of the thing, I have no idea as to whether the shiocker that came with it is correct length or what. It moves, but is a bit tatty. It doesn't look to have much movement certainly, but I have the good fortune to live within 4 miles of Maxton suspension whose advice will be sought when it comes to the bouncy bits. They do a nice Ceriani front set up apparently, but it is £1250 plus VAT which goes up to 20% in January, so the standard setup looks really quite apealing!
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 04:32:51 AM »
Standard forks would  not do that chassis any justice, i would be looking for a set of forks of a later model Japanese bike, I am using 1989 GSXR1100 43mm forks on mine..

Mick
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline voxonda

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 06:15:01 AM »
+1, as long as it won't be UPSD forks! >:(
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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 01:07:17 PM »
The rider probably won't do the frame justice either........but we'll see how the money goes. At least forks don't have to be decided until later on, unlike the sodding pistons!
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2010, 03:33:41 PM »
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750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 12:11:40 AM »
I just received my second set, all I need now is an engine to put them in! ;D
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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2010, 01:29:01 PM »
Has anyone actually used those cheapie 836 pistons for any length of time? They look fabtastic value but if they turn out to be made of hard plastic in China and break up after 5,000 miles then it is a false economy. Maybe I am too suspicious but if something appears too good to be true then there's a good chance it is.

Opinions or experience please...
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2010, 03:44:32 PM »
Same seller different size pistons...

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=77080.msg880855#new

Read the last post...

Mick
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750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2010, 12:00:48 AM »
Very persuasive - his engineering is obviously better than his English. But then his English is way ahead of my Japanese.
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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2010, 02:31:32 PM »
First event in the restoration has now taken place - the head and barrels have been blasted, basically just to get them clean enough to assess. First thing to check is the state of the bores which will mean taking a ring off an Abe piston and stuffing it down a bore and doing some measuring. Then it is off to Pete Lovell in Smethwick to see how much it is going to take to repair the fins. It is salvageable, soem will be welded back, others will be ground in subtle fashion to remove the signs left by an utter halfwit who tried to remove the head using only a lump hammer and a chisel, and forgot to take most of the bolts out first, from the look of it. I know I am not the most proficient mechanic, but I hope whoever did this was a nutter - I hope he (or she) ends up going to a similarly qualified dentist to get his due reward....
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Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2010, 04:55:12 PM »
That's a LOT of fin damage..........maybe a replacement is in order..........especially since your looking at new pistons.
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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 11:35:21 AM »
Certainly not pretty - this is why I am being very restrained and going one step at a time. First is to find what fin repair will cost or if it is cosmetically practicable. If not, then it is in the bin. But if it is Ok and the bores are OK with the Abe pistons then it gets its fins repaired. If the thing is going to be expensive on fins and a rebore is needed, then the fin money goes on a new set of barrels. So many variables, just need to get them done in the right order. All part of the fun! Mind you, the garage is so cold at the moment that the whole thing is on hold. Will keep you all posted.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2010, 03:20:54 PM »
Great project you've got yourself. My Foale started life with a Honda 750 sohc engine, but was just a pile of bits when I bought the "bits". Heres the rolling chassis after a lot of work, and another type of engine fitted

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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2010, 03:28:30 PM »
Leading link front forks too - very tasty!
So much depends on the next few months and how the money goes. Suspension-wise, Tony Foale may remanufacture more LL forks, but I think I will wander up the road to Maxton and get some Ceriani forks and one of their rear shockers. Dream dream dream, but it helps the winter pass!
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 03:35:45 PM »
It took me a year to do mine, and it was a tight budget, just looked about for parts that looked "right" at auto jumbles. Heres a bit of inspiration for you of what can be done, sorry its turned out a Kawa   ::)

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Offline RupertB

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2010, 03:41:07 PM »
Don't apologise for the Kwakiness - the Honda shares the garage with a Guzzi, Ducati and Laverda so it is bottom of the pecking order by a mile. (and if that doesn't get me some abuse on this site, nothing will!!).
I see you still have the loops on the frame which look to be for pillion use - what do you reckon - keep or chop off?
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2010, 03:37:30 AM »
Quote from: RupertB on October 26, 2010, 01:29:01 PM
Has anyone actually used those cheapie 836 pistons for any length of time? They look fabtastic value but if they turn out to be made of hard plastic in China and break up after 5,000 miles then it is a false economy. Maybe I am too suspicious but if something appears too good to be true then there's a good chance it is.

Opinions or experience please...

I'll be installing a set in my K1's 836cc engine when I de-tune it soon. Not being a metallurgist I've got no idea really on how long they'll last, but nonetheless they look well made, so I'm quite happy to give them a try. The cheapest way out of your cylinder block dilemma is, if your 836cc bores are good, just buy another block with good fins and swap the sleeves over. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Syscrush

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Re: Foale Frame and CB750K4 engine
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 08:40:24 AM »
Wow.

Looking forward to watching this thing progress.
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