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Offline 78 k550

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Photo Guy's need your advice.
« on: January 30, 2011, 09:31:28 PM »
Hey All,
I just sold a sewing machine for a good amount of cash now looking to go dslr. Previous setup was Minolta X-700 only lens I have worth keeping is a Tamron 300 2.8 adaptall setup fit for Minolta. I can get a Nikon mount.
My sister just got the new Canon ts1 i think the new 18 meg with a 55-135. I played with it for an hour today. I liked it but felt small in my hands. I went to the local store and picked up a Nikon 7000 and a Tamron 70-200 2.8 and it felt so nice. That combo is around 2,000.00
I went to another store and checked out the Sony models 580 is a nice unit and the same sensor as the 7000. The guy at the store said there was someone making adapters to fit the md mount to the new Sony?
So my ? is go for the 7000 body $1,200.00 and just use the lens I have for now (Tamron 300 2.8 ) then get the 70-200 2.8 later down the road.
Or if I can get the Tamron 300 2.8 to adapt to the Sony 580 body. It is only 800.00 body only standard lens only 100 more. The store guy thought I might really look at that combo.
you don't get 2 SD slots like the Nikon and how important will it be down the road to write jpegs to one card and raw to another?
Never been a Canon person so not really looking at them yet.

Thank's

Paul
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:07:13 PM by 78 k550 »
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Offline MoMo

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 01:54:41 AM »
Why do you want such an elaborate camera would be my first question? 

Unless you are a professional or need to make large photos you can get by with a zlr fixed lens camera for less than 500.  When I was in the business I was completely impressed by Fuji digital cameras, for the money there were more features than most other brands and the quality of printed photos was amazing.

You only need a couple megs to make a quality 4x6 , 8 megs will get you a good 11x14.  Things have changed since I have been in the business but I got rid of all my slr film and digital cameras and use a 5 meg Olympus zlr camera that fills all my needs-I can even use it with my studio lights.  Good luck with your choice...Larry

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 04:49:29 AM »
I vote for the Nikon, but I'm, admittedly biased. I've been shooting them since the early 70's, both film and digital SLRs and have never been disappointed. Having a decent investment in Nikon glass already, that's another reason I've stayed with the brand. Are you sure the Tamron w/adapter will fully integrate with the Nikon? Hard to beat Canon either though. I'm assuming you are considering going the DSLR route because of the flexibility and interchangeable lens systems??
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Offline mmtsquid

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 07:18:49 AM »
I'm not a photographer, but when the wife wanted a good camera I bought her a Nikon D90, a "portrait" lens and the sb600 flash.  The difference was immediate - we don't go to a photographer anymore for any reason.
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Offline drones76

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 08:58:14 AM »
I agree with above about the Fuji equipment.  I used some to do weddings a few years ago. I personally still have the original Rebel 6mp Dlsr.  At the time it was considered a 'pro-sumer' in betweener.  I have had it for about 7 years and still love it.  That all being said, when my wife and I went on vacation for two weeks to Italy last year, I did not want to get tied down to the size of the camera.  I borrowed my son's power shot.  I think it is the 700 series.  It fit in a belt holder and took great pictures.  It has higher mp than my dslr.  Once or twice, I would have used mine for a nice setup shot, but overall it was worth the portability.  Unless you are doing pro work and absolutely need the advantages of an SLR, the cheaper and smaller point and shoots do a fine job.
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Offline ksmith0034

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 05:09:37 PM »
I'm not a photographer, but when the wife wanted a good camera I bought her a Nikon D90, a "portrait" lens and the sb600 flash.  The difference was immediate - we don't go to a photographer anymore for any reason.

+100000 on this set up.  You can even shoot video with it.  Look no further, just go buy it and start shooting!
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Offline 333

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 07:22:51 PM »
In pondering this same issue, I have heard that "film" lenses and "digital" lenses are different.  So, while you can get one to fit, you might not get the results you want.  Personally, I don't see it.  I thought I'd throw this out there for thought.
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Offline 78 k550

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 07:29:57 PM »
In pondering this same issue, I have heard that "film" lenses and "digital" lenses are different.  So, while you can get one to fit, you might not get the results you want.  Personally, I don't see it.  I thought I'd throw this out there for thought.
Thank's I was wondering also but no one I spoke with didn't mention I would have problems they just state that was is a great lens.
I was just looking all the new lens and my old one is just as good as theres. The element and coatings same #'s just no auto focus. I don't see how they can be that different.That will be my factor of keeping it. I'll do some test shoots if i don't like there are people still shooting film and i might be able to squeeze 500 to 600 for it. It is like new.

Paul
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2011, 04:17:18 AM »
In pondering this same issue, I have heard that "film" lenses and "digital" lenses are different. 

Not true from the standpoint of 'the glass.' Focal length is focal length and  an f-stop is an f-stop. Now, whether an older lens will fully integrate with a DSLR's electronics might be another matter. Many shoot DSLR's with older lenses. They may have to use them in 'manual' mode where they meter, then determine the proper f-stop and shutter speed themselves, but it is done all the time.
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Offline drones76

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2011, 04:55:31 AM »
In pondering this same issue, I have heard that "film" lenses and "digital" lenses are different. 

Not true from the standpoint of 'the glass.' Focal length is focal length and  an f-stop is an f-stop. Now, whether an older lens will fully integrate with a DSLR's electronics might be another matter. Many shoot DSLR's with older lenses. They may have to use them in 'manual' mode where they meter, then determine the proper f-stop and shutter speed themselves, but it is done all the time.

+1  Also on the Canon's, the older lenses work fine, the difference is if you try to use a newer lens that is designed for a DSLR, it will not fit in a film camera.  Then new ones are slightly deeper.  I use the old lenses in the new(er) camera with no issues.  I am not even sure where my old film camera is. 

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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2011, 05:33:03 AM »
I have a D7000.  I am very very pleased.  Full disclosure: I'm also kind of a Nikon-aholic after formerly having a problem with Canon film ;).  

I'd strongly urge you to consider different strategies for you lens needs.  Go Nikon 18-200 VR.  It is an "all-in-one" solution and is not very big.  I've used them but not owned one (yet) - they're terrific.  Also, I'm strongly considering going with a prime lens.  The D7000 is fantastic in low light - I love that.  You can shoot ISO 6400 with very good results!  With a 35mm 1.8 in addition to already exceptional low light performance,  you can do very well in existing light.  

I have an SB600 and I don't think I'd change that decision - I use it mostly for bounce... it's need is diminishing but I'll continue to use it plenty.  My primary lens is an 18-70.  I like it but would prefer the 18-200 for a "zoomie".  As time goes on, I am more pulled by the notion of just a prime lens (35mm 1.8 ).  They're small, light and super fast (let in lots of light).  

« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 06:16:25 AM by GammaFlat »
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Offline ksmith0034

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2011, 06:06:24 AM »
Read this is you are interested in the D7000 - http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d7000.htm
http://www.dpreview.com/ also has great reviews on tons of cameras.
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Offline 78 k550

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2011, 06:39:16 AM »
Thanks guys.
I got linked to his page yesterday and you could spend lots of time on his site. I'll check it out didnt see that artical.

Paul
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2011, 03:29:17 PM »
I understand you are in Colorado, but here's a nice used lens in the Chicago area: http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/pho/2190954480.html
This seems pretty cheap.  Maybe too cheap for an 18-200.  They usually go for 500-600 used. 


Nikon 18-200mm AF-S DX VR - $1 (Sugar Grove)
Date: 2011-01-31, 8:20PM CST
Reply to: sale-pmwqd-2190954480@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

I have a Nikon 18-200mm AF-S DX VR IF-ED f/3.5-5.6G for sale. The lens is used but is like new. Shows very little wear. Really the only wear is on the front of the lens cap from riding in my camera bag. There are no scratches, scuffs or other marks on the body of the lens. The glass is clean and free of any scratches or marks. The blades are clean. This is an AF-S lens so it will focus on any Nikon DSLR. The lens comes complete with original box, lens bag, both front and rear caps and lens hood. I will also include a Circular Polarizing filter and a UV filter. I take care of my equipment. You won't be disappointed. Asking $500 or best offer.
Would also consider trade for Tamron or Tokina wide zoom 2.8.


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Offline tramp

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2011, 03:06:47 AM »
don't worry about mpix unless your going to make posters or go pro
more important is how the camera feels to you and liking the way it works
sony makes good camera's
they just don't have the name
i've had minolta/sony for years, never had a problem with them and all thier lenses are interchangable
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Offline gnarlycharlie4u

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 01:37:37 PM »
Go Nikon if you have the money. The D990 is good and on par with the D300 but doesn't have all the buttons.

I have a D300 and I love it to death. (that is until I get my D700)

I started out with Minolta srt 100, 101 201 and xd-11
Loved them all but once you go digital it's tough to go back.

Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 02:38:47 PM »
Go Nikon if you have the money. The D990 is good and on par with the D300 but doesn't have all the buttons.
I assume you mean D90 (one cup too many of coffee will make me "double tapp" ;))

I have a D300 and I love it to death. (that is until I get my D700)
I think you're in great shape with a D300.  That is an awesome camera.  I came real close to buying the D300S which is a minor upgrade to the D300.  Having said that, I do really like my D7000.  My first DSLR was a D70 - $1200.  A couple years later I spent $400 for D40 which was a huge upgrade from the D70.  I feel like the leap to the D7000 is pretty big as well.  As I mentioned earlier, the ISO 6400 clean-ness is fantastic (see Rockwell's analysis on this).  It seems to operate super fast (6 fps).  I'm finding the video is pretty nice (Rockwell said it was crap but he's also a professional videographer and video technician... which makes him picky).  I am in love with this camera. 
Please don't buy a D700... It'll only make me jealous.  With the results I'm getting with the D7000, I'm thinking I won't be tempted any time too soon.... well, at least I'm hoping I won't :). Make sure to check out Ken's ISO comparisons between the D7000 and D3 which should give you a good idea how the D7000 would stack up with a D700 (very much like a D3). 

Loved them all but once you go digital it's tough to go back.
To say it's tough is an understatement :)  I never loaded another roll of film once I went digital.  I had medium format and 35.  I can't see ever going back. 
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2011, 03:24:31 PM »
I never loaded another roll of film once I went digital.

Boo! You're helping to kill the film industry for those of us who still use it.  :'( ;D
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Offline 333

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2011, 04:04:24 PM »
Not true from the standpoint of 'the glass.' Focal length is focal length and  an f-stop is an f-stop.

Actually, that's not so true.  The "film" plane and the sensor plane are at different positions in the camera.  The film plane is at the very back of the camera, along the back door.  Most digitals (up to this point) haven't formed a consensus on this issue, but are positioned closer to the front of the camera body.  So a 50mm from a film camera, isn't a 50mm on a digital. It's less. In some cases, by a factor of 1/2. And since F stop changes with focal length, that's not quite the same either.

Now, the guy that explained this issue to me was saying something about how light travels through the glass, and quite frankly, lost me.  But it has something to do with the angle that the light is allowed to go through the lens, and is somehow dictated by coatings on the glass, and minor differences in the shape of some of the glass pieces. His opinion is based on the fact that his photography is at a very high level.  He doesn't use the jpeg file, he uses the raw file.

That being said, if a lens fits, it should work for most of us, and our photographic needs.  As long as our expectations aren't too high, there shouldn't be any problems.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2011, 05:35:43 PM »
Sensor size does make a difference in the field of view with any given lens because on most DSLR's the sensors are much smaller (using 35mm as the comparison), therefore the image projected will be different. There are some newer DSLR's with sensor dimensions quite close to the traditional 35mm format, but they are still out of my budget reach. Beyond that, I've never heard of differences in the "glass" because of some specific need(s) of digital. I will do some research though.
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2011, 06:46:06 PM »
The sensor size is different among DSLRs and compared to 35mm cameras.  In the case of Nikon, there are 2 sizes.  One is the "FX" which has about a 1.5 ratio for focal length... in other words, a 50mm lens on an "FX" camera behaves like a 75mm lens would on a 35mm camera.  The Nikon "DX" (expensive!) has a sensor that is similar to a 35mm film "footprint" so a 50mm lens on a "DX" camera behaves like a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera.  Canon chose to complicate things even more by having 3 different sensor sizes on their DSLRs.  Their low-ish end DSLR has a 1.6 ratio and it goes up from there to a "35mm like" sensor. 

The apertures are the apertures. 

The smaller sensor cameras can get by with "less glass" in the lens because a smaller diameter is needed to "cover" the sensor which makes them lighter, cheaper and smaller.  The lenses made for 35mm cameras or large sensor cameras are backward compatible to small sensor cameras but you may not want to use them because the lenses are larger, heavier and more expensive.  A "DX" lens would not work well on a 35mm camera or "FX" camera as the corners would be "shaded" (dark). 

For my purposes, the "FX" is fine as would be the Canon 1.6 sensor.  When you can make a 20"x30" print of something without any bad evidence of your sensor size, I call that good enough.  I shot weddings for years using both 35mm and medium format (6x6).  For ALL the prints ever I made, 35mm would have been adequate.  The dirty little secret in the industry was that if you used medium format, you could charge more for weddings.  To me, the "FX" vs. "DX" sensor is a similar story.  One more thing on sensors... Camera manufacturers are getting better results "per square centimeter" with their sensors more recently.  An "FX" (1.5) sensor from a Nikon D40/D50/D70 does not deliver the quality as the new "FX" (1.5) sensors you might find on a D300/D300s/D7000. 

It is important to be happy with your gear but it is every bit as important to really understand what attributes in your gear are truly important.  If quality of photograph is REALLY REALLY what you want, spend $250 on a used Mamiya 645 (they're on Craigslist all the time and that price is often with 2 lenses) and shoot 120 film.  Spend $7000 on digital gear and you won't achieve the quality of the Mamiya.  Admittedly, the new gear has fantastic electronics and features but those things don't do much for the quality of the photograph.  Disclaimer: I have a Nikon D7000 and I love all the bells and whistles. :)

Point and shoot cameras have smaller sensors than the "1.6" or "1.5" sensors with understandably different operating parameters and expectations.  There are currently only one or two exceptions.  When you read that a point and shoot is 12 megapixels, does that mean that it will have better quality than a Nikon D40 which has 6.1 megapixels?  The D40 will deliver much higher quality pictures because it has a larger sensor.  This is a whole different conversation but understand that pixel count is less meaningful than sensor size (and quality). 

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Offline ksmith0034

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 07:07:21 PM »
Thay may have been a bit confusing to most. The DX crop sensor cameras are more typical on the prosumer cameras (D40, etc).  The "full frame" FX sensor is found on the higher endpro cameras.
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Offline 78 k550

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 07:10:00 PM »
Wow guys keep the info rolling. Love reading all this stuff.
I still have my Bronica SQA, 2 120 backs, metered head, all ps lenses 50, 80 and 150. with extension tubes.
It is really hard to beat that quality. I have some very nice slides of England and elsewhere.

So hear is the million dollar ?
Is film still king?
But if I can get photo quality 20x30 with the D7000. Why do I need to spend money on film?

Paul
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Offline 78 k550

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 07:19:57 PM »
I understand you are in Colorado, but here's a nice used lens in the Chicago area: http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/pho/2190954480.html
This seems pretty cheap.  Maybe too cheap for an 18-200.  They usually go for 500-600 used. 


Nikon 18-200mm AF-S DX VR - $1 (Sugar Grove)
Date: 2011-01-31, 8:20PM CST
Reply to: sale-pmwqd-2190954480@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

I have a Nikon 18-200mm AF-S DX VR IF-ED f/3.5-5.6G for sale. The lens is used but is like new. Shows very little wear. Really the only wear is on the front of the lens cap from riding in my camera bag. There are no scratches, scuffs or other marks on the body of the lens. The glass is clean and free of any scratches or marks. The blades are clean. This is an AF-S lens so it will focus on any Nikon DSLR. The lens comes complete with original box, lens bag, both front and rear caps and lens hood. I will also include a Circular Polarizing filter and a UV filter. I take care of my equipment. You won't be disappointed. Asking $500 or best offer.
Would also consider trade for Tamron or Tokina wide zoom 2.8.


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How about a titled, leaky topend 78 550K for the lens. Ok, you can stop laughing. I would like the lens but I think I'm going Tamron 70-200 2.8 or something similar.

Paul
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Photo Guy's need your advice.
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 06:51:03 AM »
If you get a 70-200 and use it on a "DX" format camera, you'll have an effective (in 35mm days) of 105-300mm.  Are you shooting birds or sporting events or are you a spy? - I can't think of too many other good uses.  That is an effective 2x to 6x zoom. You generally want 1x capability for everyday snapshots (around 35mm on a "DX") which would be considered a "prime" lens.  Wide angle is nice to have and a little bit of zoom rounds things out nicely.  The camera manufacturers have addressed this and will sell you a "kit" lens of which the most common is 18-55mm which is the equivalent of 27-82mm.  I own a 70-300mm and the last time I can remember using it was for shooting eagles in Northern Wisconsin (a long time ago).   

If I could only have one lens, it would be an 18-200 but kit lenses are very useful as well.  As I shoot more, I'm thinking that a very fast (large maximum aperture) prime lens (35mm 1.8) is the hot ticket :)

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