Author Topic: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues - Updated with Videos  (Read 1981 times)

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Offline Lil Red

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'75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues - Updated with Videos
« on: August 28, 2011, 11:21:26 AM »
Well, after always  wanting a CB400f A buddy at work came upon one from a friend of a friends, friend who passed away, and hadnt ridden the thing since 1985...I looked at it and kind of knowing Hondas got the idea to trade him my beater Toyota Pick-up for it...his 88 4wd is rusted away silly and I put a 90's new design bed on mine so we did the deal for a swap. Anyway I brought new plugs some Motul 20/50 and did the points with a match book and some fine sand paper...the brake caliper was siezed but an easy fix...it had been properly drained of fuel and the bowls were dry...3rd kick...BOOM....rode it home....So now I've gone thru it and got it almost to time out right (with a timing light) but the 1/4 timing I ran out of adjustment on the plate just a few degrees shy to the right of the mark....the 2/3 I got spot on. I feeler guaged the points first as in the manual.

Warmed it up and got some redline shifts out of it...God the things such a blast.

Anyway, I read the FAQ's and saw something about another plate shifting but I dont quite get it. I'm also planning the Dynatek conversion and was wondering if you guys thought I'd continue with the same problem on the 1/4 timing.

Oh also the starter button would jam in and have to be pulled out...I opened it up and it was all in crumbled pieces in there and balls and springs...Wondered what you guys thought might be a solution besides buying one which is probably nla or crazy priced

Well this is my first post here...it's nice to have this site....So now I own an old Guzzi big twin that sounds like a Nascar small block... and this 400f...which is a symphony of little sewing machine parts...I suppose I enjoy things more for the way they sound...then the way they look...Lucky me!...cuz this things got a sweet look about it...and an old school Moto GP sound...WaaaAAH WHA!!!WHA!!

Sorry for rambling...but hey...I'm stoked...takin it out for a ride right now!! THANKS
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 07:50:43 PM by Lil Red »

Offline VTCBike750

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 11:36:25 AM »
Starter buttons with a spring is about 6 bucks. You could try to grab one of ebay on the cheap. 

How shot are the points? Maybe new points would fix the timing, but if your doing the dynatek conversion I wouldn't worry about things.

By the way congrats on the find. Enjoy. If I had a garage Id like to get a 350 or 400, they just look fun.
-Adam

1972 CB750 (current project)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=87951.0

Offline jneuf

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2011, 12:17:24 PM »
Congrats on the new bike! I just picked up a new to me '75 400f as well. They're a blast! And I also have the starter button issue.

Post some pics! (of the Guzzi too!)
'75 CB400f

Offline sopo400f

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 12:50:15 PM »
My start button was also toast.
I got a toggle switch with a momentary in one direction and on in the other. So the momentary is for the starter and on is for the headlight.  Mounted it behind/below the mph gauge. Unplugged and ran wires from the bundle under the tank, that way I didn't cut into the harness.
1975 cb400f blue

Offline Lil Red

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 02:17:22 PM »
Hmmm..I guess a toggle's an idea...with a switch for the light off on starts...but electricity is vodoo witchcraft to me...plus I'm left handed.

So just got back from 150 miles!! I guess I'm not used to it, but it sure seems to be vocanicly hot...and it smells as if it were just recovered from the center of the sun or something...I get some popping on the overrun. Maybe due to the muffler being rotted a bit...theres a rust hole @ the exit.  It doesent seem to be leaking any exhaust anywhere...and it's all OEM old stuff...The headers have some dotted surface rust on them...maybe that's the odd smell...or just metal that hasn't been heated in 25 years or burning of the patina or something...I do fainlty remember the same smell when I rode a CL175 for a time...I can touch the alt and ignition covers but man they seem really hot. It's like 85 here today maybe 90  which doesnt help...70mph on the highway for like a half an hour...just whizzing along...Got to see myself in some windows...was worried that at 6' 210 that I'd look silly on it...but the position's so comfy...and I llooked pretty good....LOL! Maybe it's the bikini fairing and the felt karma balls that are tucked inside it....they came with it...dont want to mess with the mojo...Thanks for the help guys...much appreciated...I'll post some pics soon.

                                                                                                                                                  Maurice

Offline vames

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 02:49:12 PM »
Hondaman makes a relay setup that replicates the original starter switch function (headlight off/starter on and starter off/headlight on) so that you only need to retrofit a simple on/off push button into your right side control. He sells them on his site. 


Offline malcolmgb

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 03:54:29 PM »
Switches usually clean and rebuild easily, springs can be got from an old retractable pen (the writing sort) just cut to length, clean sw contacts and rebuild with a spray of WD40.
Malcolm

Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

1977 CB400F
1973 CL175 K7
1976 XL175 - Sold
1964 CL72
1966 CA78
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=1988

Offline VTCBike750

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 05:59:50 PM »
Switches usually clean and rebuild easily, springs can be got from an old retractable pen (the writing sort) just cut to length, clean sw contacts and rebuild with a spray of WD40.

Spring from a pen is a great idea
-Adam

1972 CB750 (current project)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=87951.0

Offline Bodi

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 06:12:57 AM »
The spring is usually not the problem. The various plastic parts that hold the contacts for the switch inside the pod housing turn to dust . These parts are unavailable.

Electrical problems are the norm for a 35 year old motorcycle. It will be worth the trouble and time to learn what's happening in those wires. Going through the harness from end to end and cleaning all the little connectors will avoid unending little problems, and you'll learn a lot! get the Honda wiring diagram and spend some time figuring it out, the various simplified wiring diagrams available will cause much confusion since they leave a lot out and will not be specific to your bike anyway.

The 12V electrical system is not dangerous, you won't get a shock from it unless you poke wires through your skin.

Unless you have amazing dexterity forget about rebuilding the stock start switch. You can do several things - bypass the headlight shutoff so the headlight works and forget electric start, bypass the headlight shutoff and connect a simple low current (2A?) SPST button for start, replace the switchpod for somewhere around $100.00, use the SPST switch plus a relay to keep the shutoff function, wire an external (these will not fit in the pod) higher current rated (I would use 10A) momentary pushbutton or toggle switch to handle both the headlight cutout and start functions.

Offline Lil Red

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 06:54:08 AM »
Well yeah....all the plastic bits in the starter button are toast...and I mean like Egyptian tomb dust..So the 6 buck piece isnt a real solution? Not that it's all that important...I kind of dig kicking it...Makes me feel like Peter O'Toole at the beginning of "Lawrence of Arabia"...dont think it'll ever get old to me either...as I'm OLD @ 52...and it helps me feel young believe it or not.

I had plans of doing an RC172 replica with it...4 int 4 cones and road race fairing etc...but after living with it for a week, I'm beginning to change my mind. It all started with my wife, whom I've never before heard articulate a sentence with the word "exhaust" in a mechanical sense...I pull in the driveway and it's the first thing she says..."Man that exhaust is  COO-el"... I didnt even think she knew what an exhaust was...and has since expressed interest in riding the thing...she used to ride a 700 NightHawk, but found it a bit ponderous and top heavy. Another reason I was thinking about fixing the elctric start...I may just let her try to kick it...she's about 5'7" 130lbs... I think she should be able to do it.

 

Offline cameron

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 07:03:36 AM »

"700 NightHawk... ponderous and top heavy."

heh. so true.
1976 CB550F

Offline Lil Red

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 07:32:26 AM »
Yeah, she was okay when she test road it...but long term it didnt suit her and tested her upper body strength. I made the mistake of automatically thinking it would do well for her..since to me it was the perfect "commuter bike"... I dont think it was ever intended as a track bike or street knee dragger....I figured boring would sit well with a newer rider.

The thing would walk away from my Guzzi from a light though...thankfully not at a ridiculous rate...She did seem to enjoy that a bit more than I cared for.

Offline Tews19

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 08:12:58 AM »
Congrats and welcome to the site. .... Where the pics dude? Always got to post pics of your new bike!!!
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline Rgconner

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 09:31:56 AM »
Hondaman makes a relay setup that replicates the original starter switch function (headlight off/starter on and starter off/headlight on) so that you only need to retrofit a simple on/off push button into your right side control. He sells them on his site.

He also makes a really nice transistorized ignition that costs less than half a Dyna S and leaves the original advance in place.

Check that out too.
1975 CB550K aka "Grease Monkey"

Offline Lil Red

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 09:37:43 AM »
Well, I got a "Jitterbug" super old phone....the wife's got a smartphone so naturally I have to wait till SHE's ready...might even post a video if it's allowable here...

Forgot to mention... I think the Guzzi, (her name is Apollonia)...I think got jealous...cuz I brought the CB over last Sat...and just this Thursday I rode the Guzzi to work...and she promplty and for no apparent reason, laid over off the centerstand in the parking lot...(Sidestand apparently translates into Italian as DO NOT USE...cuz it's a toothpick)...not too much damage but the clutch lever broke...so she's unrideable....but now that I got this CB...I think she may have made a BIG mistake. The CB's got useable sidestand....which is REALLY nice to have.

And thanks again for all the tips...I'm gonna check out the Hondaman site...I think the timing curve on the thing's just fine...
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 09:40:14 AM by Lil Red »

Offline Lil Red

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 11:11:43 AM »
Hey!! So I'm reading thru some of this tech stuff...If I figure out how to hook up my tach dwell meter after I blow off all the dust....I can set the point gap while the motors running?? Will that be the most accurate way? Then reset the timing. If so I may try it...I've decided to try the Hondaman ignition...as the points on the bike look brand new...every 5 or so years to do a new point set is acceptable....plus it would seem that it's all less taxing on the already marginal (by modern standards) chrging system.

Offline Lil Red

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« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 07:54:27 PM by Lil Red »

Offline Tews19

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues - Updated with Videos
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 09:42:43 PM »
That is a great find... damn I am digging you fairing too.. Now I want one for my 550K.... What is the brand to it????? Anyone know where I can find one?
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline Lil Red

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Re: '75 CB400f Barn Find Timing Issues - Updated with Videos
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 06:59:18 AM »
Well it kinda looks like any of those Viper cafe fairings like you can get on ebay or craigslist...which I've had in the past but this one is really thin and the bubble has a cool yellowish age patina to it...and is very thin comapared to most I've seen as well.

I have to say that the bike is really something...What a Walter Mitty machine...the power, which is plentiful but you have to wind it, comes on softly it seems, which makes it fun in twisties, but it's a little deceptive as the speed comes on faster than you would think....I ride it at moderate speeds and yet with all the sounds and the revi-ness...I can hear Bob Varsha commentary at Spa historics...and there's Hailwood flat out @ Eau Rouge... and then NAILING!! the double apex left hander...when I'm just getting on a freeway ramp...magic indeed!