Author Topic: CB750 vs HD  (Read 15538 times)

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Offline Noel

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2006, 04:25:57 PM »
Quote
I think that's going to depend on how much money the SOHC rider and is willing to spend. I mean, some guys are taking XS650 Yamahas and making 900cc runners out of 2 cylinders, why couldn't a 750 be built to scream also? If a person has the resources, there's not much he can't do.

I wonder. I'm aware of the road race motors built for the 750 that can make 90 reliable horsepower, but I'm assuming lifespan is measured -- as with most race engines -- in hours, not years. And the cheapest ready-to-race 750 motor I'm aware of is $10,000.

A big American V-twin cranking out 120+ HP (and similar torque numbers) can be bought for in the neighborhood of $5,000, dropped directly into your Harley, and expected to last for tens of thousands of miles.

So maybe I'm all wet when it comes to hopped-up SOHC motors, but it seems to me that getting ridiculous horsepower out of your Harley is a lot simpler than getting it out of your SOHC. It would be nice to be wrong about that, BTW, so anyone got a link?
'73 CB500

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2006, 05:41:09 PM »


                       Noel, I don't have a link that you're talking about but, we've got HondaMan and others
            like him that have an abundance of info. Also, I may be wrong, but a race motor(or a
            resemblance of one) built to use for trips on the street and not on the track (with an
            occasional drag race or some such), shouldn't take too much of a toll on the engine.
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PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2006, 05:51:14 PM »
******Yawn****** ::)
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Offline cb650

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2006, 06:42:17 PM »
******Yawn****** ::)
Ditto



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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2006, 09:43:23 PM »
Quote
I wonder. I'm aware of the road race motors built for the 750 that can make 90 reliable horsepower, but I'm assuming lifespan is measured -- as with most race engines -- in hours, not years. And the cheapest ready-to-race 750 motor I'm aware of is $10,000.

Well...I just took my "roadrace" motor out of my CB750 today, with 102,000+ miles since I last raced it. I toured it that way for the last 30 years, dusting every Sportster I met along the way...and a lot of other "superior" bikes.

If someone wanted to pay ME $10,000, I could build almost 150 HP into an SOHC 750 block and I could guarantee that it will still be on the road (sans accident, anyway) in 10 years...   ;)  Any takers?
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2006, 09:57:50 PM »


                               HondaMan, That's just the point I was trying to make. Now then you guys, Stick
              That In Your Harley  &  Davidson It!  Even with a $ 10,000 motor, the Honda would still come   
               in cheaper than a lot of Harleys.     Later on, Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2006, 10:58:07 PM »
Quote
I wonder. I'm aware of the road race motors built for the 750 that can make 90 reliable horsepower, but I'm assuming lifespan is measured -- as with most race engines -- in hours, not years. And the cheapest ready-to-race 750 motor I'm aware of is $10,000.

Well...I just took my "roadrace" motor out of my CB750 today, with 102,000+ miles since I last raced it. I toured it that way for the last 30 years, dusting every Sportster I met along the way...and a lot of other "superior" bikes.

If someone wanted to pay ME $10,000, I could build almost 150 HP into an SOHC 750 block and I could guarantee that it will still be on the road (sans accident, anyway) in 10 years...   ;)  Any takers?

Hondaman,
I'm headed north and back on Sunday. Need me to drop off a cam on my way by? I'll load it up. My cell is 719-963-3080
Jerry
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline Noel

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2006, 11:19:31 PM »
I won't go as far as to say I don't believe you, HondaMan, but considering that Suzuki isn't getting 150 horsepower out of their '06 GSXR750, I'd be interested in hearing your plan. Even assuming you mean to bore it out to 1000 CC or so, you're still asking 30 year old technology to perform on par with the latest-greatest.

'Splain, Lucy!
'73 CB500

ElCheapo

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2006, 11:32:05 PM »
I see this did not get better  ;) Anyway who cares what beats what. My tank gun beats you bb gun  ;D Does not mean a thing huh?

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2006, 07:22:35 AM »


                 You know though, all this speed & power stuff aside, they'll still be riding their Harleys
    (some being flashy, noisy, and fat rear tired) and I'll (along with you guys & others) still be riding
    the Hondas (although there are different styles represented, they still have their character and if
    the way this site has and is growing, is an indication of the following that goes with the SOHC4s). My
     2-cents worth.
       

                                                           Later on, Bill :) ;)


              And I thought this was about H-D, Not Sport Bikes.  Hello.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2006, 07:29:03 AM by bill440cars »
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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eldar

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2006, 09:09:23 AM »
Yeah I thought it was about HD and CBs too.

Offline Noel

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2006, 09:35:04 AM »
Quote
We have said it before, but 1000cc sportbikes are now so powerful that the way in which the engine delivers that power has taken on extreme importance. All of these bikes produce in excess of 150 rear-wheel horsepower in a package weighing less than 400lbs dry.
Oh, okay. The GSXR makes 155 horsepower, not 150. What could I have been thinking.

Quote
So, a 1060 kit or less and some injection and few things could be close to 150hp.
And you know this how? Have you done it? Ridden one? Seen a comprehensive report from a reliable source detailing the process? It's simply hard to believe, although -- as I explained to HondaMan -- I could be -- and hope to be -- wrong. I expect he will be along at some point to show me how it's done.

Quote
Hondaman, don't sweat it, there's always someone coming down on truth around here.
Still harping on about people not accepting your blithe "just cut the frame, no big deal" business, eh? :D

Quote
Let see, do they put twin V's on the dragstrips and circle tracks, or inline motors...
Yes. Ducati, RC51, Buell, etc. And even the Mark Cox Harley drag bike that runs in the low sixes. Anyone aware of an SOHC that can hit 230 MPH in the quarter?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2006, 09:44:19 AM by Noel »
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2006, 11:10:12 AM »


           



        Let's see,230mph in the Quarter, now that would be handy on the street!!
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
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Offline Noel

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2006, 11:45:54 AM »
Heheh!

You know, aside from the theoretical discussion, I don't personally care much which is faster. My 50 HP SOHC is fine for me. In my time with the latest-greatest sportbikes, I rarely got into the powerband. What am I going to do with 150+ horsepower? I mean, besides go to jail or get killed?

I finally realized that buying a bike, for me, is about a bunch of different things, with power being WAYYY down the list. Hell, I'd buy a Royal-Enfield if they were allowed in CA.
'73 CB500

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2006, 12:19:52 PM »

I finally realized that buying a bike, for me, is about a bunch of different things, with power being WAYYY down the list. Hell, I'd buy a Royal-Enfield if they were allowed in CA.

                         I guess I'm in the dark on that one so, I'll ask why aren't Royal Enfields allowed
             there? I've been an Enfield fan since before the gear shift was moved to the left side. If I
             was to get one, I'd want the shift on the right side where was originally. Never did like that
             change. Now, if I had my way, I'd have a 57' Indian Apache (really a 700cc Royal Enfield
             with the Indian name on it) or a mid 60's TT Interceptor.  :) ;)

                          The closest thing I have to an Enfield is a new pair of footpeg rubbers, a front
              brake/choke lever assembly, most of a clutch lever and some parts manuals for the
              Indian/Enfields (55'-57') that my Dad gave me a few years ago (That were from my
              Grandfather's motorcycle shop). Later on, Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline Noel

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2006, 01:38:11 PM »
The Royal-Enfield doesn't meet California's emissions regulations. You can buy a 10 MPG SUV here and drive it all day long, but a 100 MPG motorbike is "environmentally unfriendly". :-\

I really dig the cafe bike kits they sell. They don't make exactly the bike I like (cafe, no electric start, left side shift, drum brakes) but I think you could build one. I can see the "cool factor" in the right side shift but I just know I'd end up killing myself with it.

All told, I think my "dream" Enfield would cost almost ten grand, which is kind of hard to justify. But hey, I could always hit the lottery... ;D
'73 CB500

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2006, 05:35:39 PM »



               Noel, I wonder if the new "Electra", w/ the lean burn engine, will make it to Calif?
       By the way, if you took a bullet and added the "Trials package" to it, you'd pretty much have
       the same motorcycle that my Dad built back in 55' with a new, stock, street 250cc single
       Enfield. It was either 56' or 57' that Royal Enfield (w/ the Indian name on it) came out with a
       model called the "Hounds Arrow". Back in the 50's, my Dad & Granddad came up with
       modifications to the actual Indians and the Enfield/Indians and the Indian reps would come
       around, ask a few questions, take note of what they were doing and, then a little while later,
       the changes would come out on the motorcycles. My Dad & Granddad didn't have a clue that
       they themselves could be profiting from this. Things like that was probably happening all over
       back then. They (my Dad & Grandad) converted several street bike, especially 2 strokes, to dirt
       bikes (Back then , they didn't make them and then started to kinda wake up and realize that
       there was a market for them and the Jawa/CZs started to come over along with a few others.
       The 1st Maicos and Zundapps, that I saw as dirt bikes, were converted that way by my Dad &
       Granddad. Well, I got kinda long winded and strayed some and so, I'm gone.    Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline Noel

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2006, 06:14:03 PM »
I hope the "lean burn" bikes make it to California, but I'm not holding my breath. My state just doesn't make it easy for manufacturers/importers.

And in a sense, that's good news for me, as I spend too much on motorbikes as it is. I just don't think I'd be able to resist... :)

You know, I don't care much at all about dirt bikes, but the Enfield trials bike is one of the coolest looking things on the planet. I would dearly love to show up to the local MX track on one!
'73 CB500

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2006, 06:17:12 PM »


                     I hear you and will join you on that thought.
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline cb650

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2006, 06:39:04 PM »


                               HondaMan, That's just the point I was trying to make. Now then you guys, Stick
              That In Your Harley  &  Davidson It!  Even with a $ 10,000 motor, the Honda would still come   
               in cheaper than a lot of Harleys.     Later on, Bill
Bill trying to make that point is  like pissin in the wind.   But what do we know we still like mopes
  ;D ;D ;D
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2006, 06:55:07 PM »


               Terry, when you're right, you're right.                              What was the question again?   
         You'll have excuse me Terry, I got side tracked and was looking at the Challenger in my avatar.
          You have a good one.
                                                            Later on,  Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline cb650

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2006, 07:04:05 PM »


               Terry, when you're right, you're right.                              What was the question again?   
         You'll have excuse me Terry, I got side tracked and was looking at the Challenger in my avatar.
          You have a good one.
                                                            Later on,  Bill
Go work on the sidecar or i might have to take a trip down there and help.   



                  Me
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

Offline bill440cars

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2006, 07:15:37 PM »


               Terry, when you're right, you're right.                              What was the question again?   
         You'll have excuse me Terry, I got side tracked and was looking at the Challenger in my avatar.
          You have a good one.
                                                            Later on,  Bill
Go work on the sidecar or i might have to take a trip down there and help.

      Yeah, you're right again, I gotta get that thing ready. I'm a working on it. Got the carbs off to clean. Working on getting me some tires (gonna get standard type tires for now cause, we're setting it up so that I can unpin the sidecar and take the 750 out solo, if I should desire). Got me a headlight bucket, now just need to get the rest of a headlight. Don't have turn signals right now. I'm working on that too. (Figured that since I'm going to have James in the sidecar at times, it'd be best to have the signals. Better go for now.  Later on , Bill 



                  Me
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2006, 09:36:41 PM »
Quote
I wonder. I'm aware of the road race motors built for the 750 that can make 90 reliable horsepower, but I'm assuming lifespan is measured -- as with most race engines -- in hours, not years. And the cheapest ready-to-race 750 motor I'm aware of is $10,000.

Well...I just took my "roadrace" motor out of my CB750 today, with 102,000+ miles since I last raced it. I toured it that way for the last 30 years, dusting every Sportster I met along the way...and a lot of other "superior" bikes.

If someone wanted to pay ME $10,000, I could build almost 150 HP into an SOHC 750 block and I could guarantee that it will still be on the road (sans accident, anyway) in 10 years...   ;)  Any takers?

Hondaman,
I'm headed north and back on Sunday. Need me to drop off a cam on my way by? I'll load it up. My cell is 719-963-3080
Jerry

Hi, Jerry! I managed to get enough time to pull the engine out & down anyway, and yeah, it needs a good cam. Stock one, low miles, would do nicely for what I have in mind. The one I have has worn the inner bearings down to .011" clearance (ack!).

If you come this way, buzz me at 303-350-5171 (8:30-5:30 days), or e-mail ahead of time to: mgparis@concentric.net or mark.paris@msainc.us and I'll call your cell. My home phone's tied up weekends 'cuz my wife works online then, so it's kinda useless: I'll try giving you a call Monday during the day.
Thanks!

H.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 vs HD
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2006, 09:58:42 PM »
I won't go as far as to say I don't believe you, HondaMan, but considering that Suzuki isn't getting 150 horsepower out of their '06 GSXR750, I'd be interested in hearing your plan. Even assuming you mean to bore it out to 1000 CC or so, you're still asking 30 year old technology to perform on par with the latest-greatest.

'Splain, Lucy!

Noel:
Action Fours made a drop-in 1000cc kit with crank, rods, cylinders, pistons, the works, in 1974 that we built into an Amen-framed chop, using a K1 engine. Installed a Weber 4-bbl carb and custom intake manifold, CD ignition and distributor that ran off of the camshaft at the tach port. The rear-wheel dyno went 108 HP with just that much mod. Then we did a port job, reshaped the cylinder heads into hemis (see my new post as an example), found some stainless-steel intakes that were 30 degree valves so had to remake the seats. Compression dropped at this point to about 9.2:1 (the stock 1000cc kit is 10.25:1).

We were thinking of a turbo, either one from RC Engineering or Rootes, but the owner ran dry of $$. When we went to the dyno the second time, it broke the chain in 3rd gear at 112 HP, going up. We didn't have another chain, so we lost our final test. My gut feeling was that it went near 120-125 HP then.

Seven years later (1981), I got a letter from the guy when he sold it: wanted the parts list for the next owner's "shop manual". It was still running fine.

I believe some of those kits are still around. With a different cam, more compression and 4 of today's pump-equipped Mikunis, I believe this is a likely 150 HP class engine. But, as we learned from the chain incident, there is a lot more to adding power to a bike than just putting it in the engine. A stock CB would need some serious frame and suspension work, swingarm attention, and some more things to put this power to work without endangering the rider.

It's not a fantasy, nor is it hard to do. Heck, look at Subaru engines today: 305 HP in Boxer engines of a couple of liters. It's about legislation on the crotch rockets: insurance companies limit the HP you will find ever since the Honda Magna killed a lot of people in it's debut year. That HP race with Honda and Kaw caused national legislation to occur, targeting bikes 750cc and up (this was during the early 1980s). You might remember the ill-fated V4 waterbikes that Honda introduced then: they were designed as 900cc bikes that never made it to US shores, because of the new laws. (They became a quickly scaled-down 700 instead, and quite unreliable.) There was a huge "penalty" tariff added to bikes over a certain HP for a given displacement. I haven't heard much about it in recent years, so I don't know the final outcome of that whole mess.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com