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Offline flatlander

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #525 on: February 11, 2016, 11:18:46 AM »
right. i'm sure buzz knows what he's talking about but would like to understand. especially after i maybe unnecessarily splashed out on hardweld rockers  :o
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #526 on: February 11, 2016, 11:24:15 AM »
For my recent 650 build, I did purchase a Megacycle hardweld cam and had Megacycle hardweld my used rockers. 

I do not think it is necessary if you use a billet cam and your stock rockers in good condition.
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Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #527 on: February 11, 2016, 11:33:24 AM »
I hear that. I'd consider myself fairly advanced mechanically, been working on bikes/cars since a kid. It's just I've never done degreeing and all the threads I come across, It seems as though everyone is pulling their hair out. Especially with these cams.

I'm probably going to toss the 650 cam in and be done. Call me what you will. haha
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Offline flatlander

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #528 on: February 11, 2016, 11:35:32 AM »
don, i have a hardweld cam from megacycle, and got hardweld rockers with it. same as you did.
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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #529 on: February 11, 2016, 11:36:31 AM »
No shame in that and no need for hardweld rockers.
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1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

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Offline flatlander

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #530 on: February 11, 2016, 11:39:37 AM »
LOL i'm not ashamed of the rockers. it's all those mods that bother me.
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Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #531 on: February 11, 2016, 12:06:46 PM »
The biggest thing is having new with new. Hardwelded rockers are a good option for many as it's likely easier than finding 8 new rocker arms.
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Offline Camrector

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #532 on: February 11, 2016, 12:11:48 PM »
Why 572 Pistons?
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Offline calj737

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #533 on: February 11, 2016, 12:40:50 PM »
Quote from: Trad on February 11, 2016, 09:06:58 AM
Hey Cal,

I know it's doable but I looks like a really PITA. You need to cut up an old valve cover so you can adjust the cam sprocket and I don't really want to wreck any of my spares. Ah well, I should just learn it.
Nope. You mill a slot in the cam sprocket and with the cove off, you degree the cam. Then install the cover. Or you buy and adjustable cam sprocket from the get-go. Remember, the sprocket is attached to the head, not the cover.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #534 on: February 11, 2016, 12:43:18 PM »
I went 572 because it leaves a bit more meat on the cylinder sleeves. 61mm is the largest you can go and the sleeves are mighty thin at that point. These are the JE flat tops that have been around for decades and have proven dead reliable. All this info coming from Buzz at Dynoman of coarse.
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Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #535 on: February 11, 2016, 12:45:42 PM »
Quote from: calj737 on February 11, 2016, 12:40:50 PM
Quote from: Trad on February 11, 2016, 09:06:58 AM
Hey Cal,

I know it's doable but I looks like a really PITA. You need to cut up an old valve cover so you can adjust the cam sprocket and I don't really want to wreck any of my spares. Ah well, I should just learn it.
Nope. You mill a slot in the cam sprocket and with the cove off, you degree the cam. Then install the cover. Or you buy and adjustable cam sprocket from the get-go. Remember, the sprocket is attached to the head, not the cover.

I have both an adjustable cam sprocket and a standard. I mean you cut a spare cover to use for the degreeing only. So you don't have to pull the rocker cover several times to adjust the cam sprocket while in the degreeing process. Then put your permanent cover on once cam timing is dialled in. I fully understand the process my man!  :P

Edit: you cut the  temp cover so you can get to the cam bolts with the rocker cover on during degreeing.. Make sense?
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Offline flatlander

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #536 on: February 11, 2016, 01:12:29 PM »
yes that makes the process quicker and easier as you don't need to take the cover off to make adjustments to the sprocket positioning. but it's not necessary. you can do it without, it only takes a bit more time.


Quote from: Trad on February 11, 2016, 12:45:42 PM
I fully understand the process my man!  :P

you do - now put it in practice  8)
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #537 on: February 11, 2016, 03:04:09 PM »
True it's not complete necessity, but a modified cover saves huge time. If you have a junky early model cover do yourself a favour.
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Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #538 on: February 11, 2016, 06:52:51 PM »
Quote from: bwaller on February 11, 2016, 03:04:09 PM
True it's not complete necessity, but a modified cover saves huge time. If you have a junky early model cover do yourself a favour.

Exactly. I don't like the idea of taking the cover on and off so many times either. Seems like such a hassle. If I do it, I'm cutting a spare cover and hopefully done within a few hours. I just wish the grinds were accurate enough to use the stock marks. One can only dream.
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Offline calj737

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #539 on: February 12, 2016, 02:02:31 AM »
I must do it all wrong then, or because I do it while assembling the motor the valve cover is superfluous. On my motor:
Block on, locate a true TDC for #1 piston. Made a mark on the crank (points side). Installed head and cam/adjustable sprocket. Rotated the crank with degree wheel attached, recorded measurements. Reversed crank, recorder measurements. Did the math. Spun the crank until #1 was TDC (used a piston stop in #1 plug to confirm). Adjusted the cam on the sprocket. Locked it down. Rotated crank fully. Confirmed lift on the degree wheel with mark aligned. Installed cover, set valves. Took about 30' start to finish.

What am I missing? Is it because you don't have a true TDC on #1 or a piston stop and you're using valve tolerances on the rockers? If so, I get it. If not, I'm confused as hell... ???
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline bwaller

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #540 on: February 12, 2016, 04:50:10 AM »
Use a dial indicator to check both opening & closing numbers for both intake & exhaust? The cams I'm using have equal lobe centers (in. & ex.) and I set them that way. Not to say you couldn't get the cam timing right the first time, but if it happens, buy a lottery ticket! As mentioned the key is finding"true TDC". Take your time, this is uber important. Use your piston stops & do this step before you install the camshaft so intake valves don't accidently tangle with the stop.

Removing & installing the valve cover multiple times would require re-setting "0 or running valve lash" each time as well, bloody nuisance. Modded cover all the way.  ;D It's too bad there will be mulitple modifed covers out there when most people will only use it once, so choose an early beat up cover if possible.
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Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #541 on: February 12, 2016, 03:13:57 PM »
Quote from: calj737 on February 12, 2016, 02:02:31 AM
I must do it all wrong then, or because I do it while assembling the motor the valve cover is superfluous. On my motor:
Block on, locate a true TDC for #1 piston. Made a mark on the crank (points side). Installed head and cam/adjustable sprocket. Rotated the crank with degree wheel attached, recorded measurements. Reversed crank, recorder measurements. Did the math. Spun the crank until #1 was TDC (used a piston stop in #1 plug to confirm). Adjusted the cam on the sprocket. Locked it down. Rotated crank fully. Confirmed lift on the degree wheel with mark aligned. Installed cover, set valves. Took about 30' start to finish.

What am I missing? Is it because you don't have a true TDC on #1 or a piston stop and you're using valve tolerances on the rockers? If so, I get it. If not, I'm confused as hell... ???

Cal, here' s the clearest real world example I have. I sent myself an email with various degreeing tips to study quite some time ago. Whoever wrote this, sorry I never saved the name.

THESE ARE THE STEPS AFTER YOU FIND TRUE TDC WITH A PISTON STOP. The opening and closing number will vary from cam to cam depending on the specs. You can just plop your numbers in from the timing card.

"-set your valves to zero lash

-set up a dial indicator on one of the valve retainers. zero it with the valve closed

-turn the engine through, and when the dial indicator measures .040" lift, look where the degree wheel reads. continue turning through until you are back at .040" just before the valve closes.

-do the math with those numbers: O (open #) + C (closing #) + 180 /2 - S (the smaller of the two numbers.

-if you're off by a few degrees, imagine what a change in either direction will do on the wheel, then redo the math. note that when one numbers increases, the other decreases, as they are relative to different point of piston travel.

-pull the cam cover, move the cam in the desired direction, reassemble and remeasure.

-so if O=26 and C= 55 and (O+C+180)/2 -S (i'm pulling these numbers out of my ass) , then you would get: 26+55 +180= 261. 261/2 - 26= 104.5 (ok, maybe they weren't totally out of my ass, because that's what you want for your lobe center). if you wanted to see what one degree advance would do, plug in the numbers O=27 and C=54, and you get (27+54=180)/2= 130.5. 130.5-27= 103.5."


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Offline bwaller

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #542 on: February 12, 2016, 04:58:47 PM »
You've got the jist Trad. Remember to check both intake & exhaust numbers.

Get as large a degree wheel as possible for better accuracy.
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Offline redwillis1978

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #543 on: February 12, 2016, 06:09:10 PM »
What do you do about the cam chain slack? I thought you never turn a Honda backwards?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #544 on: March 06, 2016, 08:44:33 PM »
So, I figured I'd share this crazy story here because you think something like this could never happen to you, venting a bit maybe. ***If you want to read through this, keep in mind its graphic.***

The scariest events of my life started exactly two weeks ago tomorrow! On Monday Feb 22nd/2016 at 3am my wife and I were awakened to banging so loud it sounded like thunder coming from the aparment next door (same side of the hallway). It went on for a good 5-10 min then stopped. Once it was silent I got up and looked through the peep hole of my door and couldn't see anything so I opened it up, just to make sure everything was OK in the hallway. There was this tall lanky and seriously sketchy looking guy in the hall clasping his hand with what looked like blood dripping off his fist. He startled me as I could't see anyone through the peep hole. I tried to be calm and asked him if he was ok and if anyone needed help as we were awakened to loud banging. He replied "sorry for the noise, I'm just feeling with my brother" I replied, "alright, none of my business. I just wanted to be of help if someone was in need" I was about to go back inside when a heavy set Native woman came out of that apartment holding a guy by the back of his neck, helping him walk. This guy was so badly beaten I don't thing even his friends or family would recognize his face. I've never seen anyone in that state and immediately closed and locked my door. I called 911 anonymously, gave the location and stated that I witnessed what I speculate was a gang related assault. (Judging by how they looked/dressed it was fairly clear) We tried to sleep as best we could that night but it was light to say the least.

The next day my wife and little girl were home alone while I was working. At 10am, 5 gang members came back to my floor and were trying to bust my door down, intimidating and threatening my family!!! My wife called me and I called 911 from my work place, 45 min drive away. The fear in they're cries was the most sickening thing I've ever heard or felt in my life. Helpless is an understatement. THANK GOD THESE ARE HEAVY STEEL FRAME DOORS WITH DUAL DEADBOLTS!!!!!

Police arrived quick enough and were able to arrest 3 of the 5 men before they were able to gain entry to my home. The sad part is that Police didn't witness an actual crime commited against us so I could not press charges. All the people arrested were taken in on unrelated outstanding warrants.

I moved out of there that night with the help of friends and family. I couldn't justify family being there another night. My whole life has been uprooted in a single instance! Who knows why they came back, maybe that beaten guy died and they wanted to keep my mouth shut. I'm clueless as to that question but want to know the real answer.

What would have happen had they got in. Rape, kidnap, or worse. The thought has been driving me nuts.

Then last week I found out from police that all the people arrested that night are affiliates of the primarily Native American gang "Red Alert" I've been told many of these members are drug addicts and erratic behavior his very prevalent with this group.

Sorry for the rant. If you read it all through, thank you. Probably lots of typos as I'm writing this from my phone in a bit of a hurry. Hopefully you catch the gist.

I have some updates on the bike to post in a day or two, big headaches there but nothing like the violence from last month. It really makes any material issue feel so unimportant and small. I doubt I'll ever stress out about something motorcycle related again.

Hope everyone is doing well!

-JJ
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 09:03:12 PM by Trad »
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #545 on: March 06, 2016, 08:54:26 PM »
WOW dude, glad you and your family are OK.

Good on you for getting out.

mystic_1
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #546 on: March 06, 2016, 09:00:32 PM »
Holy freakin' smokes, Jared.  I am so glad you and your family weren't hurt but completely disturbed by this.

You made a good call getting out of there pronto.
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1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
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"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Trad

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #547 on: March 06, 2016, 09:07:48 PM »
Quote from: mystic_1 on March 06, 2016, 08:54:26 PM
WOW dude, glad you and your family are OK.

Good on you for getting out.

mystic_1

Quote from: CB750 Cafe Racer Fan on March 06, 2016, 09:00:32 PM
Holy freakin' smokes, Jared.  I am so glad you and your family weren't hurt but completely disturbed by this.

You made a good call getting out of there pronto.

Thank you both. Honestly, if it was just me living there I would have started packing (illegally if need be. Canada is so tight on gun laws.) and reinforced my door even further. Since my family is home alone so often I just couldn't leave them with that risk. Man, I'm so pissed I could literally go find these people and do some damage of my own. UGH!!!
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Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #548 on: March 06, 2016, 09:13:23 PM »
Wow is right. You made the right call Jered.
Getting your family to a safe place was the only choice.
Hope everyone can return to a secure state of mind.
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Offline redwillis1978

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Re: Trad's 74 CB550K
« Reply #549 on: March 06, 2016, 09:58:55 PM »
I assumed from the writing that you were in Winnipeg. Checked and it was Edmonton. FYI- you can own a shotgun easily in Canada and it's actually best for home defense. Anyone can shoot it and you don't need to be a marksman to hit what is in front of you. You also don't need to worry about a bullet going through many walls.
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