Topic: Headlights!

[joegeis]

Used to be Cibie was the way but the stopped making them, the molds and dies worn out and not enough demand to make new. Hella is better than a sealed beam but mediocre as far as reflectors go, from what I hear and waht I've seen in the off road crowd.

I touchon relays and reflectors on page 5 of my restoration thread here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,125385.200.html

https://easternbeaver.com has conpact relays to fit in your bucket. Since you can't get Cibie/Valeo reflectors anymore you can get comparable or better Koito reflectors from https://www.danielsternlighting.com/ I haven't used 7" round Koito reflectors but I have used the Koito large rectangular style and I can say they are every bit as good as Cibie. Koito is all I will use on my vehicles that don't already have Cibie reflectors.

I'm alte to the party but I don't see any mention of relays in your post. Relays and dedicated large gauge wiring are critical to a good headlight. It will even make a sealed beam a lot brighter.

Relays is a new concept for me, and I haven't looked into it at all. I'll do a little digging, thanks. I'm grabbing an OEM Stanley bucket from a different model Honda from grcamna2 and pairing that with the Philips MotoVision halogen.

[PeWe]

Relays also avoid the relatively higher current in the handle bar switches.
3 relays, LO, HI and ignition.
If using a louder horn in need of more current, 1 more relay.

Thicker wirings direct from battery, hanging fuse close to battery.
Additional thicker minus wirings from battery too.
Auto relays often used for cars additional headlights, horns etc. 12V 30/40A
Bosch type made by many.

[rotortiller]

I thought about relays but after almost 50 years my head light hi/low switch still works fine, and the light is on all the time. I just don't see the point in adding extra garbage wiring and connections to an old tank. Maybe clean the connections and contacts every couple of decades lol! If I was concerned with brightness I'd go LED or HID projector which actually draws less power. More modern bikes use relays so in that regard it might be considered an upgrade. A 55 watt  high beam draws maybe 5 amps and the wire run is so short that not a lot of copper is required. Now if I was selling relay kits or adding a heavy draw headlight to a marginal charging system I'd likely figure a way to pump smoke lol.

[RAFster122s]

Do a test rotortiller...
Rig up a jumper from.your battery positive and negative with suitable 16ga wire directly to your headlamp one night to see if you see a difference between wired stock or fed directly from the battery.
If you see a difference between them that is significant enough to convince you of the benefit you might change your mind. I ride a fair amount in the dark, so I think having relays is worth the effort on vintage bikes.

[Dunk]

rotortiller, measure voltage drop at the headlight through factory wiring vs direct wired with 16ga or 14ga power and ground to battery. You lose a few volts through the factory harness. That loss ends up as heat, wear on the switch contacts, more current draw (less to keep battery charged on an already marginal system), and less brightness from the bulb. I know you said you don't care about brightness or headlight switch longevity, but it really is a major safety increase to be able to see better, and charging starting at a lower RPM is nice particularly with any extras like heated gloves.

[rotortiller]

Like I said, almost 50 years now on the bike and the headlight and H/L switch is still working just fine. In my mind that's longevity:) I even have the original regulator installed too. No battery charging problems either and makes 14+ at low rpm with the lights on. They weren't stupid when they designed the bike.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=1062

[Deltarider]

Like I said, almost 50 years now on the bike and the headlight and H/L switch is still working just fine. In my mind that's longevity:) I even have the original regulator installed too. No battery charging problems either and makes 14+ at low rpm with the lights on. They weren't stupid when they designed the bike.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=1062

Same here.

[70CB750]

Like I said, almost 50 years now on the bike and the headlight and H/L switch is still working just fine. In my mind that's longevity:) I even have the original regulator installed too. No battery charging problems either and makes 14+ at low rpm with the lights on. They weren't stupid when they designed the bike.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=1062

If you open any fusebox of a new car, they are full of relays.  They are not stupid designing cars either. 

[rotortiller]

Cars have longer wiring runs, a higher electrical draw with more electrical appliances, a totally different beast electrically designed to different requirements. And like you say the cars are wisely designed to their needs.

[Don R]

  I'd say if you ain't thrilled with your lights, put in some relays and choose the bulb and lens accordingly, if you are thrilled with your lights and they don't kill your battery, ride on brother. 

[Deltarider]

Like I said, almost 50 years now on the bike and the headlight and H/L switch is still working just fine. In my mind that's longevity:) I even have the original regulator installed too. No battery charging problems either and makes 14+ at low rpm with the lights on. They weren't stupid when they designed the bike.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=1062

If you open any fusebox of a new car, they are full of relays.  [...]

Ofcourse, it's so they can use very thin wires for the control currents. Realise that modern are full with wires.

[Deltarider]

  I'd say if you ain't thrilled with your lights, put in some relays and choose the bulb and lens accordingly, if you are thrilled with your lights and they don't kill your battery, ride on brother. 

Don, that's one way of looking at it. I have been here long enough to conclude that some here rather tinker with their bikes than ride it. It's the same with buying stuff and a phenomenon which I call overnursing. Some here are addicted to it and they are masters in presenting it as rational. This rationalising after the purchase is more than often a token of cognitive dissonance imho. Somebody here - forgot who it was - once said this forum is about bikes and it is about us... Wise words.

[MauiK3]

So true, it's an addiction.
I seem to have so many things pulling me I don't get much opportunity to tinker but I be I would.
The age of these bikes is of course a testament to the robust build quality.
If it ain't broke...........

[joegeis]

For now, I'm going to stick with the factory headlight wiring. Maybe when I run out of things that need fixing, I'll look into tinkering with this.

[PeWe]

I have also got many good ideas on this forum.
My K6 had done around 100.000 km before it got relays.
Its ign switch gave up early 80's. Sudden off's or not on. Fiddling with it could help.

I added a hidden switch I had under tank connected via the stock ign switch wirings. Worked fine until parked 1990.

The stock ign switch sat there until it fell off a year or 2 later.

When I restored it 2012-2013, back on the road 2014 it got a new aftermarket ign switch. (The hidden switch had rottened.)

I read here that they might not handle the current. Maybe max 8A, then melting.

So relay for ignition.
Plus headlights.

Relay felt natural after my old cars I added auxillary headlights with 100W H1 bulbs and compressor horn with 3 horns, compressor had 4 outlets so one horn got double.
That made the road clear.

All got thicker wires too. Min 2.5mm2.

I might have used 4.0mm2 too. I had both areas at my job.

I have changed a lot, reasons for test rides
The bad thing is tire consumption!

We should not forget that changing things and updating/modifying our bikes make this forum to a really fun and interesting place.!!

[Deltarider]

I repeat: first do a V-drop measurement, say @ 4000 rpm, before you conclude you need a relay.

[70CB750]

I repeat: first do a V-drop measurement, say @ 4000 rpm, before you conclude you need a relay.

As always 

Dodgerly sticking to old solutions, keep it up man. We all cheer for you.

[PeWe]

This is about trading problems....with other ...
- Relays add another thing that can fail, suddenly.
- Low current in cheap, not good nor not gold contact surfaces switches can cause glitches.
(- Higher current as stock without relays can burn oxides away.)

All this to relieve ignition switch and all handlebar wirings with connections/switches from current.
- Thicker wiring for less voltage drop.

The thicker wiring has also thicker isolation wich protect  where routed.

Hondaman's idea to add an extra ground cable on stock rectifier a good one to make sure charging will be ok. And avoid the green wire in rectifier harness to melt when battery main ground is bad. Starter motor ground goes thru rectifier ground.

See old rectifiers on sale. Many of them have melted green wire.
I got one where I had to repair the white connector with epoxy to make the flat pin to sit tight, not wiggle. Plus add protective  fiberglass tape where the insulation were melted.

My relays are still working.

I made a mistake on my K2 where ign relay sat in the outer side behind left side cover.
A small relay for electronics, still 30A. But not auto relay.
It got water inside after a power wash.
That caused an internal shortage that drained battery totally.  10A Fuse did not burn.
My CTEK charger end up in error mode when trying to charge.
Replaced the not old battery, replaced relay and mounted it more protected with better sealing.

This was another proof that the old bikes should not be washed with high pressure.

[Deltarider]

I repeat: first do a V-drop measurement, say @ 4000 rpm, before you conclude you need a relay.

As always 

Dodgerly sticking to old solutions, keep it up man. We all cheer for you.

Do I sense irony? But wait..., I like to learn. Maybe you can teach me, if there's no V-drop, what's the use of a relay then?