Topic: One more thing ... ... another small block racer

[CB500Four]

OK guys, you wouldn´t have be wanting in it! Here we go!

I will try a discription of the actually stand of my bike.

The frame is from a CB500. Swingarms are from Suzukis 1986 GSXR750.
They are shortened to match the length of the stock swingarms.
The shocks are KONIS with a length of 340mm. Footrests are done by me.
Frontfork is from Yamahas 2004 R6 (upper tube OD 43mm). The clipons are from Suzukis 1989 GSXR750.
The wheels are also from Suzukis 1985-87 GSXR750. Frontwheel is 2.5" x 18" and rearwheel is 3.5" x 18".
I have also a set from Suzukis GSXR1100. They are 2.75" x 18" and 4.00" x 18".
But i prefer the first ones because they are lighter.
Tyres are from Bridgestone, front BT45 110/80 and rear BT012 150/70.
The rearwheel rotor (220mm OD) and the caliper are from Suzukis 2004 GSXR 1000.
The front rotors are from Suzukis 1986 GSXR 1100 and have 310mm OD.
The calipers are from BREMBO (P109) and have two pistons in oposite. They need the same brakeshoes like the P08.
The headers are for the CB650 but i don´t now the brand. The silencer (mega) is selfmade.
The fairing, the seat, the case for the battery and electrics and the inner mudgard are designed and build by me.
Some parts are done in carbon/epoxy and some in glas/epoxy.
The fuel tank is made of aluminium, i think its made in GB/UK. It contains circa 18 l.
The wheelbase is 1385-1425mm, angle circa 66 degree and trail something in the 95mm +x.
Total weight without gas is circa 151.5 kg. But at this point i will have some possibilities.

Regards,

[bwaller]

Great looking bike, nicely sorted.

[CB500Four]

The engine

The crankcase is from a CB550 with its crank but i have adapted the con rods of the CB650.
Also the cylinder and the head are from CB650. Cylinder is shortened and sleeves from CB750 (SOHC)
are in them. The pistons are from CB750 (DOHC) and have an OD of 62mm. So the engine comes up to 612 ccm.
It is build in a complete clutch of the CB650 with its primary drive gears.
Here the part especialy to Paulages : The clutch cover is welded from two parts,
one with the kicker hole from CB500/550 and the bigger part of a CB650 clutch cover.
   I also have adapted some parts of the CB650 gearshift linkage (the gearshift spindle arms and stopper arms and so on).
CB650 oil pan, oil pump, primary damper assembly, primary chain tensioner and cam chain tensioner (mod) are also adapted.
The head is welded up in the edges of the valve spring chambers to fit the head cover of the CB500/550.
Head is also heavy ported to match some Keihin CR33 and 35 ID headers. I use the stock valves but lightened and
stock springs and retainers. The cam is regrinded to an ANDREWS profil. But i don´t know more details because its
done by a machinist who is known by a friend of mine. And shame on me i haven´t measured it until yet.
I droped it into the head and it works really well. When i had turned and milled the pistons, i have it done for a
realy beasty Yoshimura cam. The valve pockets are deep enough for everything i think.
Actually the carbs are Keihin CR31 and not CR33. But i have drove them and they worked.
The Compression Ratio should be 10.8 to 11.0 . I don´t know the actually correct number
because the first build up of the engine lies back in the early ninetieths.
In May 2006 the upper surface of the cylinder was milled a little bit down.
When i ported the head i measured all intake and exhaust tracts to get the same volume at each one.
Of course the same i have done to the combustion chambers. There will be a nummber of ratio between the volume
of stroke and intake which changes with the target of power peak and revolutions. For good torque the volume
of intake should be larger. If i remember right i have a ratio of 1 : 1.5 or something like this.
By the way the ducts are not polished, only grinded with 120 sandpapers on a flexible spindel at high rpm.

Regards,

[CBJoe]

Fantastic bike!  Are you using the stock CB650 Cam?

Joe

[andy750]

Great bike - the large tank is very nice!

[Sam Green Racing]

It's not the tank that's large, just the lettering.

Sam.

[CB500Four]

Hi Sam, old slim racing snake     .
They want discriptions, they get discriptions!  
And they want pics, pics, pics, pics, pics ..........

Regards,

[Sam Green Racing]

They thrive on pictures Heinz, most of them can't read

Sam the snake

[kos]

One well designed and produced motorbike. Very well done!



KOS

m3Racing.com

[scunny]

very nice, it's my new desktop image

[CB500Four]

Hi there!

Here some more stuff for the analphabetics   (I love pics too).
First is a close up of the head and the lightened primary damper.
Second gives you a look through the hole of bottom of the crankcase
to my adapted primary chain tensioner.

Regards,

[turboguzzi]

hei heinz

very nice stuff!

would definetely want more details on the primary chain tensioner.

looks like a stock part from somwhere, 650? do you have the part number? did you have to weld stuff to the cranckases?

really hate the idea that there is no way to take the slack in the chain in the 500.

tnxs

TG

[CB500Four]

Ciao TG!

The tensioner is a stock part from the CB650. I am sorry i haven´t any part number.
I haven´t weld anything to the crankcase but this was my idea for good made mod.
I have copied the mountment of the CB650 in some weldings made in steel and
screwed it into the case.

Regards,

[Howell]

hei heinz

very nice stuff!

would definetely want more details on the primary chain tensioner.

looks like a stock part from somwhere, 650? do you have the part number? did you have to weld stuff to the cranckases?

really hate the idea that there is no way to take the slack in the chain in the 500.

tnxs

TG

Indeed very nice bike !!
I am also interested in that chain tensioner.

[René 衛星の]

Heinz mentions using the cranccases of a CB550. So this tensioner will fit, but you will have to make it fit.

Looking at the pictures it's a spring loaded tensioner, which really needs the CB650 oilpan because of it's depth.

Nace job Heinz! I guess Rene Suert has grinded your cam?

[CB500Four]

Hoi René!

Yes, you are right, this tensioner needs the oil pan of the CB650.
  And your guesses to the cam are also right.
René Sürth is a long knowing and good friend of mine and he knows the machinist
who regrindes the cams to his specifications.
René S. gaves me a lot of technical input and inspiration.
Small world, small world  .

Regards,

[turboguzzi]

Hoi René!

Yes, you are right, this tensioner needs the oil pan of the CB650.
  And your guesses to the cam are also right. 
René Sürth is a long knowing and good friend of mine and he knows the machinist
who regrindes the cams to his specifications.
Small world, small world  .

Regards,

Now that you say it, it sounds like a 650 oil pan is a good solution for higher oil capacity!

in any case, if you have a sketch or drawing of the little steel adapter that you show in the picture, that could be nice. 

BTW, did you ever put your bike on the dyno?

Cheers

TG

[René 衛星の]

Well, I don't know Rene S personally (it getting quiet confusing with all these Rene's), but I have heard he does excellent cam-grinding jobs.

I may visit the German meeting at the Edersee this year, not sure however. Will you attend?

[CB500Four]

Dyno Run

OOHHPPS i did it,but not again.

In august 2007 the bike was on a dyno.
The first pic below shows the setup of the bike, which was on the dyn the same.
The pic is made in may 2007 after the "Grab The Flag" races in Hungaria.
Please don´t be angry about some bottles in the back, but its only limonade   .
   With this megaphones( selfmade ) i gone to the dyno.
  The dynoman had a lot of fun  .
The result you can see in the second pic

Regards,

[turboguzzi]

Dyno Run

OOHHPPS i did it,but not again.

In august 2007 the bike was on a dyno.
The first pic below shows the setup of the bike, which was on the dyn the same.
The pic is made in may 2007 after the "Grab The Flag" races in Hungaria.
Please don´t be angry about some bottles in the back, but its only limonade   .
   With this megaphones( selfmade ) i gone to the dyno.
  The dynoman had a lot of fun  .
The result you can see in the second pic

Regards,

70hp out of 600 cc? very nice work! paul will be jealous....  just one thing doesnt sound right to me.... your head looks like a 500/550, not a 650 head. looking at your graph, your engine peaks very early which would make sense with the smaller valves of the 500 head.

i went to the garage to look at the motor, one bolt in your tensioner adapter seems to go throught the rectangular slot, right? so i guess you put a nut on the other end of the slot? but what about the other side? questions questions

Danke
TG

[CB500Four]

70hp out of 600 cc? very nice work! paul will be jealous....  just one thing doesnt sound right to me.... your head looks like a 500/550, not a 650 head. looking at your graph, your engine peaks very early which would make sense with the smaller valves of the 500 head.

i went to the garage to look at the motor, one bolt in your tensioner adapter seems to go throught the rectangular slot, right? so i guess you put a nut on the other end of the slot? but what about the other side? questions questions

Danke
TG

Ciao TG!

Thats one of the mysteries of tuning. If you had asked me before the dyno run i had said that the power peaks will be
at 9.5-9.8krpm or something like this and something between 60 and 65 HP. After the dyno i was really surprised.
I never thought it will have this nice perfomance. The bike is well rideable with this development of power.
And you can believe me its really the head of a CB650. I have grinded the outer shape to match
the head cover of the CB500/550. For good looking and for saving weight.
The CB500/550 cover is somthing about 3xx g lighter.
   The tensioner adapter is fixed with two bolts. The one you can see on the pic
(thread is in the edge of the inner wall below) and one comes from the outside (not so nice but usefull).
If you take a sharp look you can see a little pice of
the bolts head. I made it on the fly. That means i didn´t made a drawing i just worked with the materials.
Welding, looking, grinding with an angel grinder, looking, boring holes and threads and so on.

Regards,
   

[turboguzzi]

70hp out of 600 cc? very nice work! paul will be jealous....  just one thing doesnt sound right to me.... your head looks like a 500/550, not a 650 head. looking at your graph, your engine peaks very early which would make sense with the smaller valves of the 500 head.

i went to the garage to look at the motor, one bolt in your tensioner adapter seems to go throught the rectangular slot, right? so i guess you put a nut on the other end of the slot? but what about the other side? questions questions

Danke
TG

Ciao TG!

Thats one of the mysteries of tuning. If you had asked me before the dyno run i had said that the power peaks will be
at 9.5-9.8krpm or something like this and something between 60 and 65 HP. After the dyno i was really surprised.
I never thought it will have this nice perfomance. The bike is well rideable with this development of power.
And you can believe me its really the head of a CB650. I have grinded the outer shape to match
the head cover of the CB500/550. For good looking and for saving weight.
The CB500/550 cover is somthing about 3xx g lighter.
   The tensioner adapter is fixed with two bolts. The one you can see on the pic
(thread is in the edge of the inner wall below) and one comes from the outside (not so nice but usefull).
If you take a sharp look you can see a little pice of
the bolts head. I made it on the fly. That means i didn´t made a drawing i just worked with the materials.
Welding, looking, grinding with an angel grinder, looking, boring holes and threads and so on.

Regards,

OK, get the idea more or less, oviously will have to ake the motor out to have a better look.

if you have another shot form a different angle, then it would be nice.

do you remeber what are the valve's sizes in the 650 head?

[MRieck]

70hp out of 600 cc? very nice work! paul will be jealous....  just one thing doesnt sound right to me.... your head looks like a 500/550, not a 650 head. looking at your graph, your engine peaks very early which would make sense with the smaller valves of the 500 head.

i went to the garage to look at the motor, one bolt in your tensioner adapter seems to go throught the rectangular slot, right? so i guess you put a nut on the other end of the slot? but what about the other side? questions questions

Danke
TG

Ciao TG!

Thats one of the mysteries of tuning. If you had asked me before the dyno run i had said that the power peaks will be
at 9.5-9.8krpm or something like this and something between 60 and 65 HP. After the dyno i was really surprised.
I never thought it will have this nice perfomance. The bike is well rideable with this development of power.
And you can believe me its really the head of a CB650. I have grinded the outer shape to match
the head cover of the CB500/550. For good looking and for saving weight.
The CB500/550 cover is somthing about 3xx g lighter.
   The tensioner adapter is fixed with two bolts. The one you can see on the pic
(thread is in the edge of the inner wall below) and one comes from the outside (not so nice but usefull).
If you take a sharp look you can see a little pice of
the bolts head. I made it on the fly. That means i didn´t made a drawing i just worked with the materials.
Welding, looking, grinding with an angel grinder, looking, boring holes and threads and so on.

Regards,
   

The 650 intake port is much,much better than the 550

[paulages]

wow, this is great. EXACT same peak HP as my 718cc!


69.7. what are the odds? comparing the dyno charts, yours seem to actually build power earlier than mine, which i'm surprised about given the extra displacement i have. i'm not surprised you got the same HP with 100cc less though, as i believe most of the power in these engines benefits from the breathing. anyway, beautiful work. makes me want to do a couple more mods to mine..

[turboguzzi]

heinz, not that I dont believe you, but I thought that 650 heads look more like this....

i mean, if there are 650 heads that look more like a 500 but have big valves, I would like to know! maybe a german model?