Author Topic: Improving CB400f front brake, other CB's too? 11mm master cylinder swap (Read 27462 times)

Psychonaut · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:12:36 AM »

Quote from: grcamna2 on February 10, 2012, 01:21:53 PM

Psychonaut,
Did you get a quality set of front brake pads ?

I wanted to but stock Honda pads are $55 and I don't think it will get the brakes to bite much more. I don't want to throw more money at it. I'm going to run a CBR900 rotor with a EX650R caliper, I'll have to get another line made to along with a hubcentric spacer but I should be able to get this done for under $200 and I know it will stop as it should. The rotor is ordered so there is no going back now.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:22:45 AM »

Quote from: Psychonaut on February 11, 2012, 06:12:36 AM

Quote from: grcamna2 on February 10, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
Psychonaut,
Did you get a quality set of front brake pads ?

I wanted to but stock Honda pads are $55 and I don't think it will get the brakes to bite much more. I don't want to throw more money at it. I'm going to run a CBR900 rotor with a EX650R caliper, I'll have to get another line made to along with a hubcentric spacer but I should be able to get this done for under $200 and I know it will stop as it should. The rotor is ordered so there is no going back now.

That sounds like a Great idea Psychonaut

! Please let us know how that works out; those are excellent parts and I'd like to know more about how you can get them to fit...I'd consider doing that to mine

I'm definitely subscribed !

Psychonaut · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:45:02 PM »

I picked up the rotor spacer from my friends shop today. I just need to fasten the rotor to the hub and make a caliper bracket and weld it on.

Rotor is an EBC for a ZX6. I wasn't crazy about the drill pattern but it was new and cheap.

Caliper is a two piston sliding. I knew it would clear spokes easily. Came with factory pads.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:19:19 PM »

Psychonaut,
I love the look of those front brake Upgrade Modification parts

for you're CB400F front ! I want to ask you if you can save the dimensions and info on that special rotor spacer that you had made...& All the other specs, because when I get a few extra $ I want to Mod my CB400F the Same Way ! I'm Fully Subscribed

!

Is the front Caliper also from a ZX6 ? What Year ZX6 are these parts from ?

Psychonaut · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2012, 06:23:01 PM »

Quote from: grcamna2 on February 22, 2012, 03:19:19 PM

Psychonaut,
I love the look of those front brake Upgrade Modification parts for you're CB400F front ! I want to ask you if you can save the dimensions and info on that special rotor spacer that you had made...& All the other specs, because when I get a few extra $ I want to Mod my CB400F the Same Way ! I'm Fully Subscribed !

Is the front Caliper also from a ZX6 ? What Year ZX6 are these parts from ?

I'm not sure on the year for the rotor. I can find out from what year to year. The caliper in from a Ninja 650r.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2012, 06:55:46 PM »

Thank's, I'll do what will give me the Best

braking possible...and it looks like that's what you're Doing !

-CB-Jamie- · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:15:50 AM »

Subscribed, I'd love to put a more modern front brake system on my 400 too

grcamna2 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 08, 2012, 06:16:10 PM »

Psychonaut,
How's you're front brake Mods coming ?

Did you have a custom caliper bracket Fabbed up ?

Psychonaut · « **Reply #33 on:** March 09, 2012, 04:29:13 AM »

I cut all the stock brackets off and fabbed up a bracket and tacked it on but I need to have my friend finish welding it. He has a tig, I only have a mig but can weld aluminum with the spool gun but it doesn't do the best job. I should have it back together early next week. I still need to get another brake line and make some clip ons or put my stock bars back on. I'm running out of time before it gets hot.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:13:50 AM »

Did you Fab that bracket up? how did you jig it up to keep it true ? Looks Great

!

Psychonaut · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2012, 03:08:23 PM »

Yes out of 1/2" aluminum. To keep it aligned I used a barb fitting and an air chuck end on the end of the old brake line plugged it into the air line.

kpier883 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 11, 2012, 03:35:41 PM »

Subscribed. Enjoying your journey

Doctorlumen · « **Reply #37 on:** March 11, 2012, 06:51:40 PM »

This is interesting stuff!
I'm curious to what, if anything, will you do to brace the forks? With the combination of modern rubber, better fluid dynamics, and better pad compounds all increasing stopping power, those wee little forks might flex quite a bit, don't ya think?

Another tid bit: that old rotor is stainless steel, which heats quite a bit quicker than the carbon steel used on modern rotors. Hence the squeak. I learned that from a machinist buddy of mine. Cross-drilling helps a lot, but under rigorous braking, the rotor and the better biting brake pads just sing.

Psychonaut · « **Reply #38 on:** March 11, 2012, 07:23:15 PM »

Quote from: Doctorlumen on March 11, 2012, 06:51:40 PM

This is interesting stuff!
I'm curious to what, if anything, will you do to brace the forks? With the combination of modern rubber, better fluid dynamics, and better pad compounds all increasing stopping power, those wee little forks might flex quite a bit, don't ya think?

Another tid bit: that old rotor is stainless steel, which heats quite a bit quicker than the carbon steel used on modern rotors. Hence the squeak. I learned that from a machinist buddy of mine. Cross-drilling helps a lot, but under rigorous braking, the rotor and the better biting brake pads just sing.

I can live with some flex. I use the piss out of the brakes and tires on twisties. If it flexes a little that's fine, I'm not competing. I just want it to have another 20%. The M/C gave me better feel and a little more bite but not enough.

As far as the squeak, it was not under hard use. It would do it right before stopping and at parking lot speeds. It wasn't the deal breaker though just another thing stacking up against it. Cross drilling would not have helped that or anything else other than loose some weight. I run EBC pads, it does not fade, it might eventually under track conditions though. Hard braking they are quite but just inadequate.

kajtek · « **Reply #39 on:** March 12, 2012, 05:50:20 AM »

Ive fitted an 11mm master cylinder and braided lines. definately improved feel, although i noiticed the other day, when i squeeze the brake lver hard, the caliper and arm actually twist a little, as if things arent lined up great? maybe pads have worn and arent square. but shows the the power of the 11mm MC. i got my MC off ebay, taken off a suzuki burgman 400.

personally, when funds allow i will be changing the whole front end, im aiming either for gsnorcals kit for an r6 front end with a 550 hub, or i will use 41mm crtridge forks, triumph thruxton yokes (more offset than sportsbike), and someone clever to make it it fit my front hub. either that or a talon hub? then a single disc and a modern caliper. strong braking, no flex and twin speed damping!

ashley

grcamna2 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 12, 2012, 06:38:53 AM »

Psychonaut,
I want to do the same modification to my CB400F front forks as you're doing.I don't have any connections for Fab work here...but I'm moving soon & I'll be able to hopefully find a good Shop there.
I also am willing to live with some flex on my forks(I don't plan on doing "stoppies"

)..I plan on using my front brake hard when I get into some high speed sweepers and the unexpected "panic stop".I want that extra "bite" along with much better modulation of the modern disc brakes; that is a Very nice looking Caliper & it looks like it will have Plenty of Bite

.

Psychonaut · « **Reply #41 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:39:22 PM »

Quote from: grcamna2 on March 12, 2012, 06:38:53 AM

Psychonaut,
I want to do the same modification to my CB400F front forks as you're doing.I don't have any connections for Fab work here...but I'm moving soon & I'll be able to hopefully find a good Shop there.
I also am willing to live with some flex on my forks(I don't plan on doing "stoppies" )..I plan on using my front brake hard when I get into some high speed sweepers and the unexpected "panic stop".I want that extra "bite" along with much better modulation of the modern disc brakes; that is a Very nice looking Caliper & it looks like it will have Plenty of Bite .

I don't know your access to tools but I can hook you up with a spacer but for you the hard part would be welding the bracket on. The easiest way I can think of would be to buy an extra triple clamp, mount your forks and wheel and have a shop weld the bracket on. You can make a bracket pretty easily.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 12, 2012, 05:18:49 PM »

Psychonaut,
I have an extra triple tree set...and that's a start

. I'll accept that offer of a spacer for the hub

and I plan on doing this work once I get settled after moving in a few months...,I'll still be following this Upgrade of your's closely, Thanks

camelman · « **Reply #43 on:** March 13, 2012, 10:00:48 AM »

Has anyone done an axle upgrade to judge the impact on handling? My last build incorporated a z1000 front end and axle with the original 400f front wheel and it was a whole new bike. The thicker axle definitely stiffened the front end. I bought a spare sv1000s front end to do the same on my 350/466f but have decided to stick with stockish components. I'll probably experiment with the front axle when I do it, but was curious if anyone else has tried axle upgrades. Regardless, I'll do this 11mm brake upgrade!!!

FYI, my sv1000s complete front end is for sale. I could even have my machinist set up a 350/400 hub to bolt on to it with the modern axle and new bearings. Let me know if you are interested. The sv1000s uses clipons abd is 43mm I believe.

Sorry if I hijacked.

Camelman

grcamna2 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 24, 2012, 06:04:20 PM »

camelman, that sounds like a nice swap.

Psychonaut,
How's it going lately with you're Nice Custom front brake upgrade?

Do you have it close to attempting any partial "stoppies" yet ?

m00ntan · « **Reply #45 on:** March 24, 2012, 07:13:15 PM »

Subscribed, but for a completely different reason. Shopping for a master cylinder.

grcamna2 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 24, 2012, 08:10:03 PM »

Psychonaut,
I'm considering installing the caliper you're using from the EX650 Ninja...but was thinking of fabbing a bracket to the right side fork lower rather than the left. I think that EX650 Ninja comes with dual disc's so I believe it's possible;do you think it will work ?

Psychonaut · « **Reply #47 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:36:43 AM »

The new brake line from Slingshot came Thursday. Saturday I went on a 80 mile ride to Bartlett lake to bed the pads in and enjoy some twisties. I couldn't be happier with the brake. I couldn't be happier with the feel and the bite. I did a few hard stops with my wife on the back from 45 to about 5. It stopped harder than riding one up with the stock brake. Not just a little harder either.

I did not do the larger rotor for 30 mph stops but it is hard to show at 60 mph how much bite there is without marking out the road. At 60-40 or 60-30, it has so much bite it's unreal compared to stock. So I went back out this morning with a camera and did some hard stops from about 35 to zero. Before with the 14mm MC it would not lock no matter what pulling as hard as I could, at 50 mph it was a joke. With the 11mm MC it would lock sometimes at about 2 mph pulling as hard as I could. Now I can lock it everytime if I want. I am not pulling as hard as I can in the vid, just hard enough to get the rear up. Again I didn't do this for slow speed stops but it is something I can show. I do need to find another area so I can up the speed to start at 50 or so without worrying about LEO's. I'm not in the best area for this.

I should mention, it is dead quite now. No more squealing at stop lights at all. This rotor is steel.

I did it on LP so it's a little grainey

CB400F

Psychonaut · « **Reply #48 on:** March 25, 2012, 08:44:59 AM »

Quote from: grcamna2 on March 24, 2012, 08:10:03 PM

Psychonaut,
I'm considering installing the caliper you're using from the EX650 Ninja...but was thinking of fabbing a bracket to the right side fork lower rather than the left. I think that EX650 Ninja comes with dual disc's so I believe it's possible;do you think it will work ?

I mounted mine on the left only because the of the speedodrive and I didn't want to mess with relocating and rotation issues. I actually just wanted to swap masters, have a little better braking and be done but that didn't happen. When you get around to it I have an extra spacer or I can send you my drawing with measurements. I just made a paper template for the bracket and trimmed it to fit.

crazypj · « **Reply #49 on:** March 25, 2012, 09:04:58 AM »

Quote from: Psychonaut on January 29, 2012, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: grcamna2 on January 29, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
Psychonaut,
I received a very good tip from a nice member here on this forum..he told me a very good set of pads are either the sintered Bronze set or the ceramic style.I thought that I heard you're brake pads sounding like they were glazed from heat(probably the material isn't up to the extra "torque" from that nice 11mm MC you have in there now);they usually squeal when they're glazed.I'm not sure where to get those Nice pads that I just mentioned...but eventually..I'll get the $ after my top end work is paid for to purchase a nice st of those myself ! I also want to have my front disc drilled a little...I need to find a person to do that work for me and then prep the holes to remove the sharp edges which can mess up those harder & quality pads.

I hear you on the squeal. I have EBC FA pads, they are semi metallic. They are fine with moderate or heavy pressure but with light pressure like almost stopped at a light or parking lots and they squeal like a pig. I got a better used rotor last week and block sanded the dark glazing off with 80 grit, closest to 45 from rotaing directing as I could to hopefully help bed the pad in quicker. I also sanded the pads and put a .002" high spot in center just so I knew they would re bed. I did a 80 mile trip yesterday starting out easy to bed them in and then normal braking before doing the hard stop. Today the rotors are just as black as when I started and the squeal is back too. I think I am going to try the Vesrah VD-102 organics and see how they are.

I would drill the rotors, it pretty much 'cures' all squeal problems, the pads and rotors wear more evenly and they don't 'blue up' like stock.
I did my 550 around 1978 and never had any problems in over 100,000 miles

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Author Topic: Improving CB400f front brake, other CB's too? 11mm master cylinder swap (Read 27462 times)