Topic: Kafe' Kahagon CB550

[CafeDawg]

Bought a '76 CB550 partially disassembled and I had to break it down further to fit it into my Subaru Impreza.  Paid $75 for it and drove 5hrs round trip to get it but well worth the drive (what else you gonna do on a cold rainy Sunday).  Going to do as much of a rebuild as money will allow but figure on soda blasting everything, paint the frame, tank, side covers, maybe fenders and rims depending on how the clean up.  Engine is stuck (been sitting since '89) plus have #4 plug broken off in cylinder head.  I have put acetone/ATF in three cylinders but figure cylinder head is coming off so have penetrating oil on the screws. Anyway here's how she sits right now









May need to get some oversize pistons and rings will have to wait and see when I get the cylinder head off. Carbs have to be cleaned and rebuilt. Will need to redo seat, have one which I will modify, refit, repurpose for this bike.  Definitely need steering stem bearings, wheel bearings, tires, exhaust, airbox, cables etc etc etc.

I do have a good work space though....Kahagon....property my friends own, using their barn.




Oh and my helpers


Anyway got a start but a long way to go.  Lovin it so far!

Respect
CD

[CafeDawg]

At it again today got the frame stripped down and started on the cylinder head cover got the Pita screws out with an impact driver but still could get the cover popped must have missed something and the light was dying.  Ya lights are on the list, have power just need a couple over heads to light the way.  Soda blaster should be here tomorrow.  Ordered a engine stand last night might have it next week.  Once I have it open I can decide on pistons etc.  Luckily I do have a friend tool and dye man who can do all the machine work so that helps. 





Also took the front and rear wheels apart or in the case of the front off the forks.  Separated the electrics/headlight bucket from triples,forks,gauges still in the bars not sure what I''m going to do with that ie reuse the bars or extract wires and use clubmans.  Was thinking about putting Hyde M bars on my 750F and using the Z style clubmans from it on the 550.  Also might try running the stock bars upside down   IDK lots of wait and see and since I don't have pics of that so it didn't really happen anyway.

Respect
CD

[CafeDawg]

Finally got the cylinder cover off had to drill the screws out of the end caps. 
They were pretty well buggered I just finished them off and the cover came right off.
not sure about the rockers but the cam does look so hot so looking more and more like a 605 kit and a 650 cam is in the future.







Soda blaster came in but it's too wet lately to do anything yet.  Engine stand also in and assembled have to modify it to accept the 550 motor.  So angle iron is on the list for tomorrow.  Anyway makin progress, hope to have the head off tomorrow and get a good look at the pistons and see what kind of rebore is going to have to take place.

[CafeDawg]

Still didn't get the head off today.  F'er is still frozen and I can't get to the second bolt on the Cam sprocket so going to have to cut the cam chain I guess.  Just means more time and more money getting into the bottom end.  This is a learn as you go build so I'm sure to learn somethin.
Respect
CD

[goldarrow]

I would say get chain cutting/riveting tool $45 off eBay or some where to cut the chain. I almost bought one myself but got my motor to turn before spend money on the tool

[rb550four]

CD
  Do you have a grinder available to? A cheap metal cutting blade, grind off the two tits in one link and remove it with a pair of plyers, don't try to cut through the chain link as you may damage the gear or damage other things if it gets away from you.

                                                     RB

[rb550four]

CD
  It could be a bummer to be in the bottom end if you let it be, as you said this is a learn as you go build. This is the perfect opportunity to know this entire machine from inside out, to get not only the experience but a time to check out it's total interior condition for piece of mind, in trust that it's in roadworthy condition and the confidence that your dollars aren't being wasted on a machine where something in the bottom end may fail, and may not have if only you went that far.
  I was worried about the first one I broke down but, I realized that the condition of shifting forks, primary drive chain, crank bearing and over all inside condition of every part is so very important. It's easier to clean and paint when its apart too. Pride is the only merit badge we can wear when we  not only  "can do" but "have done". Your 750 says you take pride in your ride, this can be no different, you may be in your shop alone but you're not alone on this site, there's help, no worries.
                                                        RB

[CafeDawg]

rb550four   well put!  Just have to grind it out and I'll be pleased when all the effort pays off.  Had a little pay off today and had some progress. I don't necessarily have all the tools I would like to do this build which can make things time consuming.  I'd bought a engine stand and was adapting it to fit the 550, just some threaded rod and L brackets.  The holes in "L's" weren't large enough for the hardware so I had to do some drilling which is no big deal except I only have a cordless.  That meant it was one and a half brackets before the charge was gone so take a little break for a recharge and do some soda blasting with the new setup.  Of course I only have a pancake compressor 6 gal so that lasts for two minutes before it's empty and needs a recharge.  You can see where time might add up.  However, I did get the engine in the stand today, started cleaning up the frame and got the stupid ears off the forks. They were pretty rusted on and I didn't realize I need to pull the gators off them first.  Makes perfect sense now.






Since I couldn't get to the bolts in the cam sprocket I cut the cam chain.  Don't have a grinder and since I was thinking of replacing the cam, thus not worried about damage, I used a hack saw.  Cam cam right out.


Followed the manual and loosened all the bolts, cam tensioner etc etc.  and got the head off.  Surprise Surprise!!!  This was not in the top ten things I thought I would find.




Yup Sunflower seeds.  Somebody was using the cylinder for a cache.  This is the one with the broken plug so it stayed warm and dry.  Although still rusty.


Well after that I got the jugs partially off, was running low on time and didn't want to rush and break anything.  It's stuck on pretty good I don't think the two end cylinders want to give up and come out. 

Put more Acetone ,PB on them and hope the y come of next time.

All in all not a bad day.  Engine still might be #$%*e have to take a closer look when the cylinders are all out.  Not sure about the soda blaster , if its the compressor or the tip on the gun but I don't seem to be getting as much umph from it as I'd hoped.  Its not taking as much rust and grime of as I'd hope.  Need more research into that. 

Till next time
Respect
CD

[CafeDawg]

Not much progress today...well none really.  Can't get the jugs off.  I've tried Acetone,PB,ATF,heat,force and reset and repeat and still nothing.  The cylinder with the Sunflower seeds in it is the culprit just won't budge.  I have it all the way up to the tops of the studs and just won't come off.  Not sure what to do at this point, barring a miracle prob need another engine.  Time to start working on the chassis and searching for a motor.

Respect
CD

[goldarrow]

Mine was hard to come out also. I had to really pull it out. My motor is still on the bike, so I leaned over the frame and did pull up exercise until it came off free.

[CafeDawg]

Mines in the engine stand and I can get pretty good leverage on it but it's not commin out.  The far right cylinder in the pic is rusted to #$%* and just wont budge, it's not stuck it's fused.  I was well past  the gentle stage going into hour number four of removal and nothing has helped.  Beat on the piston with a dowel,cranked on the jugs with a rubber end of my hammer for leverage and nothing.  Just going to scavenge any useful parts off this one and find another that turns over and has decent compression.  Won't be anytime soon I flat out of bike resto funds.  Like I said time for the frame clean up, get the old crusty tires off, rust removal from everything from rims to forks.  Need it to stop raining so I can ride my F and remind myself why I bloody my knuckles.

Peace
CD

[rb550four]

CD,You could run some wire or garage door cable through the head, and hang the front end of the motor off the floor maybe 2". Hang motor from the rafters or something higher than the motor.Keep putting in the ATF cocktail and work on your frame as if the motor doesn't exist.When the rust seal breaks the weight of the motor will pull the piston from the stationary jugs.It' not like magic but it is like really nice when it works. Sometimes it takes a few days, if it 's not working when you're done with the frame, try a deadblow hammer and a 1 1/2x1 1/2"by 12" and hit the suspect piston a bit while it's still hanging and has constant down force.Soak up cocktail with rag first.
                                                                        RB

[Messenger750]

For the stuck cylinder you could try out something like this:

http://youtu.be/D701rJZsck4

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=jack+screws&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1440&bih=799&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17049331147882644737&sa=X&ei=_EurT4CyOoXLtgfM4MniDw&ved=0CKYBEPMCMAQ4Cg

This might be a little extravagant for what you need it for. But a simple nut and bolt would be the same concept. Thread a nut on to a bolt that would fit in between the gap. Put it in between the two casings and lefty loosey it would spread the casings apart. Do you smell what I'm stepping in?

[CafeDawg]

rb I'll give that a shot.  Messenger I smell what your cookin but I would be a tad worried about messing up the decks with a nut and bolt arrangement.  I have seen a contraption designed by somebody here that had the nut & bolt on top of the piston with a piece of uni bar and a cinch strap.  The strap goes under the jugs, screw the bolt down onto the piston through the unibar.  I'll keep at it but at this point the engine has broken bolts, rounded screws, drilled screws, toasted pistons, and a cut Cam chain.  I'm stubborn but at some point even the Scot in me is going to tell me to go find another motor.  Do appreciate the suggestions though, nothin to loose at this point.

Respect
CD

[rb550four]

CD,
  The member who made the piston/jug separate tool is XC204 , his thread should be in the first few pages of Shop.
  Do we know for sure that the pistons are shot? They aren't even out yet.
  Broken screws -drill bits, easy outs and 6mm taps.
  Cam chain, yes you'll need a new one. Rings +clips too.
Not seeing anything earthshattering here yet, it's all part of the fun, 35 yrs. of neglect and abuse on that bike, and it ain't giving anything up easy. That's what this is all about! If it was easy everyone would have a classic in the driveway in showroom condition.
  Everyone on this forum has the drive  to make their project work, including you. We feed off of each other 's success, I'm counting on you to learn from this project, to enjoy and complete this project, and ride it with the pride.  That's not going to be a problem, right? just checking.

[CafeDawg]

rb I'm not quittin!!!  I've been wanting to do this for at least a year now and I've enjoyed every minute.  OK well maybe not EVERY minute but definitely the process.  It's like therapy for me, I go and wrench, take the dogs, nobody bothers me, just the task at hand.  I am a man of modest means, modest perhaps being an exaggeration.  I saved a long time to get my 750 which was a great deal and the only reason I have the 550 is because it was cheap.  My point being that if it cheaper in the long run to get another motor it might make sense.  But if I can get this one apart I'll use it, I don't like throwing useful things away and it's what I've got to work with.  I'll soak it and hang it and keep at it.  I have a friend who has agreed to do the machining on the engine and he'll cut me a deal so I'm not worried about the broken plug, having the jugs bored, or any machining it might need.  I want to do an overbore on this as I think it would be great to amp up the power to 600cc and drop a 650 cam in and get max performance out of this engine.  I want an old school Cafe like they were meant to be, light, more powerful, nimble none of  this show with no go crap that people call Cafes.  So in a word No, no it's not going to be a problem and no you have nothin to be worried 'bout.  I'm too stubborn and too addicted to this process and these bikes to give up.  You sounded like my Pop their for a minute he always says "if it were easy anybody could do it".  I know that this is just part of the process, old neglected bike that it is, I'll get their.  Thanks for the kick in the ass though, just what the Dr. ordered.  I'm headed over the barn in the AM and give it another go.
Respect
CD

[CafeDawg]

I took rb's advice and hung the motor from a rafter, filled the cylinder with diesel (the only flamable liquid I haven't tried).  Left the motor attached to the engine stand and strung the whole thing up with ratchet strap.  After that wandered off and broke the forks down and nothing broke.  The oil look rough but they are apart just have to clean the rust off the top fork tube.  Will be rebuilding these with new springs, seals and gaiters (split one right at the seam getting it off) after I clean them up.   What weight oil should I run ( I weigh 220lbs) ?

Respect
CD

[rb550four]

I don't know if it makes a difference, I haven't run into this before, I weigh in less than 175lbs.
   There must be someone here  who knows.

[CafeDawg]

CAN I GET A #$%* YA!  Jugs are off!!!  Finally got the PITA of a piston to give up the ghost and let go.  I do have to say I gave up on the patient approach and went back to the old stand by of knocking the snot out of it.  Used rb550four's idea of a large socket and compressed air, that seem to help a little but a dead blow hammer and the socket finished it off. 





So this was just a complimentary success to the original project for the day which was blasting.  I got some heavier media with Aluminum Oxide and soda to go at the frame and rusted chrome.  Here's the super pro blasting set up.





Not the best set up but it works, better on the chrome bits than the frame.  It looks like I'll have to spray the frame with rust stop primer after I'm done but overall pretty happy with the way it's coming along.  And am beside myself to get the engine torn down to the next level.  Now on to the bottom end and dropping everything off to be machined.  I can order pistons now  Great Day

Respect
CD

[Spokes]

A little time a persistence is all it took. Congrats on overcoming the engine. It looks like things are coming along well.  Are you going to have to bore the cylinders, if so how much?

[rb550four]

CD,
   Congrats on getting that nasty old piston out! I'm guessing there is a really deep rust ring on the stuck cylinder and
the other one could probably be honed, they are almost always like that. Are you saving the old pistons and going with oversized aftermarket pistons and rings? If you are thinking of getting rid of your old pistons,I'd be interested.I 've been keeping up with the 750 thread,sound like someone is immersing himself in Honda. Good work and congrats again.
                                                                                                                 RB

[CafeDawg]

rb thanks was a good feeling when they came off. I was standing on the engine stand pulling and wiggling with everything I had and when it came free I was surprised and then immediately thought something bad had happened.  Then I looked down and everything was ok just had the jugs in my hands and a big smile. 

The pistons are yours if you want them well 3 of them anyway as I am going to go oversized there's a cheap 605 kit on eBay I'm thinking of using.  I beat up the one stuck piston pretty bad, not reusable but as for the rest like I said yours for the taking.  I still have to get some covers off and get into the bottom end but think the toughest spot is over.....knock on wood. 

As for immersed my girl friend says I'm fixated but tomato, tamato, she's a good egg about it.  She's a Harley girl herself, went to school for it, she tolerates my obsession with Hondas.  I want to Bob out a 550 for her as my next project....shhhh don't tell her.  Maybe if I paint an HD on the side she'll actually ride it.  But ya I love these bikes, can't get enough, it's a good thin I don't have more money or I'd just have a barn full of bikes, two came up on Craigslist yesterday a 350 and a project bike.  Want 'em both but need to focus on the task at hand and go on vacation next month and then move in July, oh and I'd better  not forget the GF birthday, so ya no more bikes for right now.  Just have to be patient and know their are still deals and projects to be had out their down the road.

Glad you got a ride in bet that felt good.  Been great weather here, I've been riding to work every day bout a 100mi roundtrip.  the commutes the highlight of my day lol.

Respect
CD

[goldarrow]

must have been the same feeling i had when i freed up my pistons, then on to the next challenge...never ending, right ? 

there is this bigbore kit on ebay, seller from japan cruisinimage_co that i'm considering to use on mine if honing doensn't work out
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CB550F-CB550K-600cc-Bigbore-Piston-Kits-with-Head-Gasket-CB550FBB-/160775419335?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item256ef635c7&vxp=mtr

[CafeDawg]

Goldarrow Yup what a relief and yes on to the next challenge of getting all scews out of the cases.  I had my eye on just oversize kit plan on getting a set  depending on when a friend can do the machining, boring that is required.  Thx
CD

[goldarrow]

How big of oversize are you going with?