Author Topic: unmarked ring orientation (Read 5536 times)

KRONUS0100 · « **on:** June 13, 2012, 07:19:15 AM »

have a set of rings for a 78 750f. they appear to be unmarked. 3 piece oil rings, and what appears to be matched identicle compression rings for both grooves. there doesnt appear to be any markings or bevels. does it matter how they are installed? they also appear to be cast iron.

MCRider · « **Reply #1 on:** June 13, 2012, 07:27:13 AM »

Quote from: KRONUS0100 on June 13, 2012, 07:19:15 AM

have a set of rings for a 78 750f. they appear to be unmarked. 3 piece oil rings, and what appears to be matched identicle compression rings for both grooves. there doesnt appear to be any markings or bevels. does it matter how they are installed? they also appear to be cast iron.

Is the outer edge of one more of a silver color? If so it goes on top. Usually the ring is marked near the gap with a letter, which would go up. If no markings or colors, then it doesn't matter, IMO. But keep fishing for help.

The 3 piece oil ring dosen't matter other than the iron ring is sandwiched between the 2 springer rings.

KRONUS0100 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 13, 2012, 07:40:34 AM »

yeah one set of 4 does have a real bright silver edge, the other 4 are a dull silver

MCRider · « **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2012, 07:47:26 AM »

Quote from: KRONUS0100 on June 13, 2012, 07:40:34 AM

yeah one set of 4 does have a real bright silver edge, the other 4 are a dull silver

The silver is a hard chrome edge which means its the compression ring. You'd expect one in each set would be chrome and they should all look the same.

Chrome/black/oil ring, from top to bottom.

bright or dull, silver goes on top. No markings near the gaps indicating up or down?

killersoundz · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:25:08 AM »

Agh why the #$%* didnt the instructions that come with my piston rings mention anything about that? How important is it to have the shiny outer edge ring on top? WTF

MCRider · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:48:07 AM »

Quote from: killersoundz on June 13, 2012, 08:25:08 AM

Agh why the #$%* didnt the instructions that come with my piston rings mention anything about that? How important is it to have the shiny outer edge ring on top? WTF

You'd a thunk they would. The hard chrome is there to resist the heat of combustion gasses, so its pretty important. It probably would've run fine. Likely the black ring in the top would wear faster.

But having a silver ring puts the black ring in the middle. Its the "scraper" ring and drags the oil film back down the cylinder wall on the downstroke so oil doesn't mix with the intake charge. As such it usually has a taper or notch or something identifying its special purpose. I suppose something of a generic ringstock would still work.

MCRider · « **Reply #6 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:50:13 AM »

Quote from: killersoundz on June 13, 2012, 08:25:08 AM

Agh why the #$%* didnt the instructions that come with my piston rings mention anything about that? How important is it to have the shiny outer edge ring on top? WTF

I got you mixed up with Kronus, sorry. Do your ring sets have a chrome ring in them?

killersoundz · « **Reply #7 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:06:01 AM »

Well out of the 2 compression rings yes one had a dark edge that looked like the rest of the ring and the other one has a silver/raw metal looking edge. mine did have indicator marks on which way to put them facing up so I got that right but I didn't really pay attention to the edge color when installing them.

My head is torqued down with the gaskets now. If I were to take it back off would I be able to reuse my head gasket and stuff or not? If not, then it's staying the way it is

MCRider · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:14:05 AM »

Quote from: killersoundz on June 13, 2012, 09:06:01 AM

Well out of the 2 compression rings yes one had a dark edge that looked like the rest of the ring and the other one has a silver/raw metal looking edge. mine did have indicator marks on which way to put them facing up so I got that right but I didn't really pay attention to the edge color when installing them.

My head is torqued down with the gaskets now. If I were to take it back off would I be able to reuse my head gasket and stuff or not? If not, then it's staying the way it is

Between you and me, you could reuse the head cheeze. But a purist would say no, the compression ring has been crushed, its a one timer.

So you got a 50/50 chance of having them right? I'd leave it and never look back. If it smokes too bad, after a while, do it over the winter.

HAsten to add, its not my bike. Your call.

Lostboy Steve · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:14:50 AM »

You know... I never thought to ask this... Good thing my common sense was right on as in my mind a "chrome" ring would be better for the combustion heat. SO I did it right... YAY.

MCRider · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:23:49 AM »

There was a thread like this last week or two. Lucky made a good point, the rings are boxed in the order they go on the piston. I don't know this first hand but it makes sense.

Its just that most of us will take them out of the box and immediately mix them up.

KRONUS0100 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:51:27 AM »

just got back from machine shop. he had to use magnifying glass to see marks on rings, put piece of tape on up side of all of them. 4 top rings definite bright silver. other 4 are 2cd compression rings, dull grey in color.

BTW........these are the 1.16mm top and 2cd rings.

MCRider · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:58:59 AM »

Quote from: KRONUS0100 on June 13, 2012, 09:51:27 AM

just got back from machine shop. he had to use magnifying glass to see marks on rings, put piece of tape on up side of all of them. 4 top rings definite bright silver. other 4 are 2cd compression rings, dull grey in color.

BTW........these are the 1.16mm top and 2cd rings.

Interesting

What's "cd"?

XC204 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2012, 10:01:25 AM »

just running into this on the CB500 thanks for the good thread.

killersoundz · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2012, 11:05:22 AM »

Yeah this really pisses me off that the piston rings said nothing about that on the box at all. I read all the fine print. I'll be running it as is

lucky · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2012, 11:15:30 AM »

Quote from: KRONUS0100 on June 13, 2012, 07:19:15 AM

have a set of rings for a 78 750f. they appear to be unmarked. 3 piece oil rings, and what appears to be matched identicle compression rings for both grooves. there doesnt appear to be any markings or bevels. does it matter how they are installed? they also appear to be cast iron.

All you have to do is open the package and install them as they are stacked.

READ THAT OVER AND OVER.

If you played around with them and now have them all mixed up, look very carefully near the ends near the ring gap and you may see a letter "T" . It is etched so look carefully.
That "T" faces UP.

phil71 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2012, 11:39:02 AM »

Lucky, you need to re-read. His rings came sorted by type, not packaged stacked. So one bag was oil rings, one bag scraper rings.. etc.
These are not honda rings, obviously.

KRONUS0100 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2012, 01:50:45 PM »

2cd= second

KRONUS0100 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2012, 01:52:52 PM »

should add that no they arent honda rings. they are rings my machine shop said he could get and he did. do not know where he got them.

lucky · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2012, 02:56:12 PM »

Quote from: killersoundz on June 13, 2012, 08:25:08 AM

Agh why the #$%* didnt the instructions that come with my piston rings mention anything about that? How important is it to have the shiny outer edge ring on top? WTF

Apparantley he may have to go back to the machinist that sold the rings to him. It is not his fault.

phil71 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2012, 04:17:08 PM »

I dunno, I think that most manufacturers assume that if you consider yourself skilled enough to tackle engine internals, you've probably got the experience to know which is which, or , at the very least, the wisdom to hold off on assembly till you're certain of where things go.

XC204 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2012, 05:24:12 PM »

Lucky you hit the nail on the head...looked in my boxs all stacked the same shiney, dull and oil ring. Thanks from one old guy (62) to another.
Gary

killersoundz · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:06:49 PM »

I think that if the box mentions the manufacture marks which is a little more obvious than it should mention something as obscure as where the different colored edge rings go.

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Author Topic: unmarked ring orientation (Read 5536 times)