Topic: Motorcycle exhaust noise considerations.

[Accolay]

Surprised nobody has posted this:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word

[lordmoonpie]

My comment was more about the attitude presented in your post, where you professed no regard for others in certain venues.  I think the risk there is that once such a decision is made, it is fairly easy to expand the venues of allowance to fit the current mood.

You've hit the nail on the head TT - but we can actually contract the venues of allowance and let's make sure we stop pesky exhaust noise, rattly clutches, squeaking brakes, hell let's solve this once and for all and ban bikes completely! There, done...

Yes I know that's a facetious response but my point is this. In starting this thread with a bunch of out of context facts and figures that serve only to justify your position in your mind, you've specified a point of personal choice and aimed to justify it as fact. Equally those who like noise can post reams of out of context supporting evidence to the contrary but that doesn't make them right or you wrong. Motorcycle noise is all about free choice within the boundaries of our societal laws. You go over the boundary in your specific geography and you face the consequences if you get caught.

A thread like this seems to me to fail to recognise the one consistent thing in this kind of question - everyone has a free will and a choice of their own. You TT, are not right, they are not wrong and vice-versa, we're all just different and that my friend is the only logical conclusion you are ever going to reach with a thread like this.

I hesitated to quote the age old comment on opinions but it does lend itself to this debate - "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and a fair proportion of them stink" 

[veloracermike]

Honestly I don't see the debate here.  I don't think anyone is proposing that our bikes be silent but to have open pipes or a set up that, at high rpm, is overtly loud is doing riders a diservice.  Lets face it when people complain about the noise they are most likely complaining to a non-riding person on the city council.  Who is that council person going to side with, us or them?  They are looking into banning loud pipes in national parks, you think that is more likely to happen or not?  I race bicycles so I train 15-18hours a week that puts me on road quite a bit.  I've had drivers throw things at me (trust me a piece of ice being thrown from a car doing 70mph hurts like hell). I've had drivers use their 3000lbs weapons to drive me off the road. When I've complained to the police I've been told that I shouldn't be riding on this or that road.  Even though I have every right to.  Basically it's always our fault weather we are in the right or not.  Rage against the machine all you want but in the end chances are thing will get worse for us than better.

[Bailgang]

I hesitated to quote the age old comment on opinions but it does lend itself to this debate - "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and a fair proportion of them stink" 

And I think that's the hangup of any debate like this because just exactly where do you draw the line and come up with a noise level where not everyone is happy about but can at least deal with? I understand what TT is saying and it's obvious he prefers a quite bike however having someone cram his definition of "noise" down my throat is unacceptable but having someone who prefers a loud obnoxious bike cram their definition of noise down my throat is unacceptable as well. I myself prefer my bike loud enough so I can hear what it's doing but quite enough so I don't wake my neighbors up when I leave for work at 5:30 AM.

The debate about loud exhaust saving lives is definitely questionable. My kids 73 cb750 has a Kerker 4/1 and it is obnoxious at least in my opinion it is but when I was riding it while working all the "bugs" out of it I had a driver coming the opposite way turn in front of me. The horn at that time wasn't working and I had just enough room to slow down so I resorted to rapping it's throttle to get his attention instead ...... the driver never flinched.

At the same token saying "use your horn instead" doesn't fly with me either. If I blew my horn every single time I saw a situation that had the potential to be dangerous then the complaints wouldn't be about how loud my bike was but instead how obnoxious my horn is and how often I used it which could possibly spark road rage with the driver who cut in front of me. And in the few situations that were critical, my hands were more focused on keeping the bike under control while my braid decided "Will my brakes slow me down quick enough? Should I dump it now? Take a chance going in the ditch or off the curb into the field?" so the last hing my right hand was worried about was the horn button which at that point wouldn't have helped anyhow.

I don't see an easy answer that's going to make everyone happy here but I can say that if you want to play, your going to pay so don't be surprised if your loud exhaust gets unwanted attention from the local police or angry complaints from your neighbors.

[the technological J]

loud pipes for the sake of making noise are stupid... but if are adding a free,er flowing exaust to actually boost power way to go but there are plenty of people who add louder pipes and lose power just so people think there cool,,, there is nothing better than the sound of a well balnced powerful motor, loud or not ...its the squid that like pretending that, because they have loud pipes and the right  gear, they are part of the elitist group who actually earned the respect they are trying to cheat us out of



“Too many people are buying things they can't afford, with money that they don't have... to impress people that they don't like!"

[Gamma]

I find that I must agree with Lordmoonpie on this.  But there again we don't get that many Harleys in the UK
The Honda six is definately up there with a Merlin on full song.

And sometimes you have to fit the appropriate exhaust forthe bike
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z293/galaxy8155/IMG_0553.jpg[/img]]

[crazypj]

An unpacked two stroke exhaust make a lot of noise and less power than an over packed one where wadding is really tight

[TwoTired]

Face it, we are all of us having our privacy invaded by someone, somewhere, sometime and noise, motorcycle exhaust noise to be specific is a tiny tiny factor in the big picture.

...But, this one is fairly easy to control.  ...for the not too stodgy, and willing to live peacefully.

...I briefly owned, an unholy sound like nothing you ever heard from a bike close up and well over 110dB.

You should learn to read lips. 
But really, you'd have certainly gotten a police visit at 1AM.  At least, in my neighborhood anyway, (which is distinctly lower middle class).  Perhaps there wouldn't be complaints in a ghetto.  They wouldn't complain there about a single gunshot, either. 

I like loud bikes, I like the multitude of different sounds they make, they are a pleasure in my life that I don't want to give up, ever. If you think that makes me antisocial, a "dick", un-neighbourly then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but your opinion is yours, it isn't mine, it means nothing to the multi-coloured aural tapestry of my world and it never will. 

Wow, you sure told be off. 
I like, and have liked, many of the things you listed in your post, too.  (And I said so previously.)  None of them have a place in a residential neighborhood, and you know it.  If you insist on forcing it upon people willy-nilly, then you ARE a dick.

My comment was more about the attitude presented in your post, where you professed no regard for others in certain venues.  I think the risk there is that once such a decision is made, it is fairly easy to expand the venues of allowance to fit the current mood.

You've hit the nail on the head TT - but we can actually contract the venues of allowance and let's make sure we stop pesky exhaust noise, rattly clutches, squeaking brakes, hell let's solve this once and for all and ban bikes completely! There, done...

The ban on motorcycles is already a reality in some places.  Pebble beach 17 mile scenic drive, and many campgrounds about the country are a couple of examples. 
Don't blame me, I didn't do it.  It was the I'll-do-anything-I-want-crowd that ruined it for us all.
Thanks, for your contribution!  There is currently discussion about banning motorcycles in National Parks.  If the motorcycles don't quiet down, it will happen, as there are currently teams making measurements to quantify the reported noise problem. I'll be right pissed if the noisy exhaust crowd prevents me from biking through all national parks!

Yes I know that's a facetious response but my point is this.

I don't think it is facetious at all.  The reality is forthcoming, get used to more restrictions.

In starting this thread with a bunch of out of context facts and figures

Wait.  What is out of context?
That hearing loss occurs with exposure to loud noise?
That loud noise is harmful to individuals whether they ask for it willingly or not?
That your position, of insisting on bombarding random individuals with sound, is not intrusive (and unnecessarily so)?
What is out of context that waking/disturbing the neighbors is anti-social and "dick-like" behavior?
What makes your selfish "wants" outweigh the basic "needs" of the rest of humanity?

that serve only to justify your position in your mind, you've specified a point of personal choice and aimed to justify it as fact.

For one thing it is not just me.  I'm mostly the reporter here, in response to an investigative request by Mike.  And, I am quite certain it is you that are presenting a minority position.
Further, you can't dismiss the facts presented with a simple statement that they are.
If that is the case, then I can simply state that you are wrong on every point you've made.  There. done. (See, how that works?)

Equally those who like noise can post reams of out of context supporting evidence to the contrary...

Really?  I haven't seen anything yet.  Besides the, I-wanna-make-noise-cause-I-like-it rebuttal.

Motorcycle noise is all about free choice within the boundaries of our societal laws. You go over the boundary in your specific geography and you face the consequences if you get caught.

Agreed.  However, the point is that the laws are usually written after the offense is recognized, defined, and quantified, IE, when enough belligerent bozos flagrantly taunt the populace with offensive behavior.  Legislation has ALREADY been made in response to loud motorcycle noise, at least in the US.  Personally, I don't see you can claim free choice in the UK as you have MOT.  How free is that?  How much did you pay for that?  Was it free?

A thread like this seems to me to fail to recognise the one consistent thing in this kind of question - everyone has a free will and a choice of their own.

Yes, everyone has free will...until societal measures take that away.  If you push or annoy enough of society, you can effect more than your own "free will" but the opportunities for many, with restrictive laws, enforcement actions, and bans for machine types.
If you are not allowed to have any machine or tool your "free will" desires dictate, then are you really free in the first place?  Ooow, that's deep...

I hesitated to quote the age old comment on opinions but it does lend itself to this debate - "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and a fair proportion of them stink" 

You were right to hesitate.  Because in a non-dictatorial society, it is the number of opinions that define acceptable behavior and practice.
In case you wish to forward the concept that your position is equal to the masses rather than the small minority it really is, let's look at realities.
By the way it is that very small minority population that allows you your current level of "free will" to annoy others with your intrusive toys.  If your "annoy others with noise" population grows, society will most definitely remove your "free will" after infraction of established guidelines.

Quote from Wiki:
"There are around 200 million motorcycles (including mopeds, motor scooters, motorized bicycles, and other powered two and three-wheelers) in use worldwide, or about 33 motorcycles per 1000 people. This compares to around 590 million cars, or about 91 per 1000 people."
Point: There are more of "them" than there are of "us".  And, there are a lot of "us" that don't want your loud exhaust near our homes, either.

Restrictions are certainly happening here in the US. Enforcement can't be too far off.  So, a big, sarcastic  "thank you" for making the noise problem an issue to cause action that effects us all.

New York City Council Intro 416-A
A proposed enforcement amendment to allow the New York City Police Department to visually inspect parked motorcycles for the required EPA stamp.

Denver City Council Amendment on Motorcycle Noise
In 2007, the Denver City Council passed Bill 242 prohibiting motocycle owners from modifying the exhaust system to increase noise levels. All motorcycles are required to bear the EPA stamp for noise emissions on the exhaust system.

Boston City Council Regulating Motorcycle Noise
In 2009, the Boston City Council passed Docket 0658, the ordinance grants the Boston Police Department the authority to fine any motorcycle that does not display the required EPA stamp on the exhaust system.

California SB 435
In 2010, California passed SB 435. It requires motorcycle operators to maintain their federally required emissions equipment (on both original, and aftermarket exhaust systems), including a readily visible EPA stamp certifying compliance.

Hmmm,  I wonder if I should present my data to the local city council...and urge them to enforce the 80db emissions law recently passed here in Cali.
It won't be too hard for other states to pattern laws known to be successful in other states.  Think of the revenue it would produce!  And perhaps, then the aftermarket suppliers would make replacement exhausts that weren't stupid loud (replacing the loud exhaust you bought from them last year).  See?  That's what makes the economy work!

Cheers,

[Markcb750]

This, like most of the issues in the world, is simply a question of being polite.  to wake a child, or overcome the pleasure of simple conversation is wrong, no matter what your personal preference is or what you think it means to be free. 

The truth is we ALL become less free because some of your parents lacked the ability to teach you how to be polite. Every time a community attempts to enforce thru legislation, something that should have been easy for your parents instill by example, we all loose a little bit of freedom. 

[luap]

Hmmm,  I wonder if I should present my data to the local city council...and urge them to enforce the 80db emissions law recently passed here in Cali."
Do you really think that's your info, copy an pasting from a quick google search, TT you have yet to Povide Any of your own INFO
I'm guessing your not in good terms with your neighbor that has loud pipes?
 So you don't like loud pipes but I'm sure you like a group of stock bikes don't you think that group is louder. complain about one thing but appreciate another

[MCRider]

Its not an issue of opinion, or appreciation or let it be lifestyle. A conscious decision that harms another human being is immoral. Regardless of the law, regardless of "feeling". There is no need to argue further, there is no purpose to argue further.

It is not known how little it takes to cause tinnitus. Evidence is that in some people it is very little. Its an INJURY that is lifelong, for which there is no cure, which for some people is debilitating.

Children and the elderly are particulary vulnerable. It is an act most despicable, real gutter trash type behavior.

No one has the right to inflict that on another, for any reason, by any means. By accident can be excused. By a conscious decision... no excuse.

I've done it. I'm ashamed. I'm asking you not to. 

[TwoTired]

Do you really think that's your info, copy an pasting from a quick google search, TT you have yet to Povide Any of your own INFO

I never meant to say it was my info.  Just info that I collected.   I find it credible, supportable, and backed by science.  I've seen nothing presented that would invalidate the info I collected.

I'm guessing your not in good terms with your neighbor that has loud pipes?

I have no immediate neighbors that have loud pipes.  (Car boomers, yes.  Yet another insensitive, self centered faction.)  There are still some passers by that happen to occasionally come within 75ft with loud exhaust.  Perhaps they are visiting. Perhaps they are exploring.  Perhaps they just want to make as many people as possible miserable.  Perhaps they don't care if they harm or disturb complete strangers.  However, about a block and a half away is a common thoroughfare which heads into the hills.  It's an access path for a pretty nice drive into the twisties.  Despite the 500Ft distance from my home with more than 50db attenuation in open air, plus the house's walls, the open or loud pipe noise still interferes with normal conversation.  These morons love to accelerate in full bloom away from the stoplight that is clearly placed in the center of a residential area.  There are probably more HDs than multis, I'd say.  But, both are easy to recognize as wheel bearing jerks.

So you don't like loud pipes but I'm sure you like a group of stock bikes don't you think that group is louder. complain about one thing but appreciate another

No.  I do like loud pipes in the proper element.  (How many times must I say that to be understood?)  But, that element is not in a residential area, or a pastoral setting such as a national park, etc.  If the loud pipe aficionados would restrict their roaming to only accepted venues, there would not be a problem.  The problem is they don't, and seemingly don't give a rat's ass who gets trampled upon or irresponsibly disturbed.

However, with your statement (or was it a question?) I'm thinking you still don't understand what a dB rating means.  If a stock bike produces 80 dB of sound, the level is not directly additive over many sources.   If legal and in adherence with EPA guidelines, each bike could produce about 80 dB. Two 80dB sources effectively doubles the power which adds 3 DB, bringing the total to 83dB for a two bike drive by.  Four bikes at 80 DB each double the power again over the two sources adding yet another 3 DB.  Four 80dB bikes in close proximity would therefore produce 86 dB of sound SPL.  Eight bikes, 89 db.  The more sound power emitted from a location, the farther it travels.
Such multiple occurrences aren't routine in a residential area, in my experience, though it is possible and within current guidelines.

However, if you take 8 bikes at 100db each you have a combined SPL of 109 dB.  109dB exposure means ear plugs for all to protect from hearing damage.

I used to fly airplanes with rather noisy cockpits.  After I started wearing noise attenuating headsets, I noticed a dramatic decrease in fatigue factor during flight.  I had not expected that beforehand.  I got the headset primarily to improve control tower communication.  But, fatigue is debilitating for personal performance, I don't care who you are or what machine you operate.  Yes, the noise does give you an initial adrenaline bump.  But, your body adapts and/or runs out of adrenaline with continued stimulus over time, which reduces your performance capability.  In flying that can be deadly.  With motorcycles, it increases your personal risk of an accident, as well.  If you are human, you are NOT immune from these effects.  It is the way you were made.

[scottly]

I used to fly airplanes with rather noisy cockpits.  After I started wearing noise attenuating headsets, I noticed a dramatic decrease in fatigue factor during flight.

What about all the people within ear-shot of your NOISY airplane?? Did you issue them earplugs? If this is about noise pollution, aircraft are at the top of the list, IMHO, as the worst offenders overall. Since there is very little here that relates directly to SOHCs, might the mods see fit to move this thread to the open forum?

[the technological J]

riding a bike with loud pipes is like yelling everytime you open your mouth

[MoMo]

The Declaration of Independence guarantees Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, the Constitution (and state and local laws place a limit on that.  If loud pipes make one happy, that person has the right to pursue happiness; however, when that infringes on the rights of others that pursuit is no longer guaranteed, and  is limited by state and local laws.  As a motorcycle inspection mechanic I would fail every bike that came in with a loud, modified exhaust system. It was a violation of the inspection code, and at a personal level(which had nothing to do with the inspection result) it is plain obnoxious and rude, especially when used in a residential area.  I recently moved from the country to a small town with a major intersection, where I am beginning to abhor most "motorcyclists" for their loud, rude behavior when pulling away from the traffic light.  My .02...Larry

[TwoTired]

I used to fly airplanes with rather noisy cockpits.  After I started wearing noise attenuating headsets, I noticed a dramatic decrease in fatigue factor during flight.

What about all the people within ear-shot of your NOISY airplane?? Did you issue them earplugs?

A noisy cockpit does not equate to noisy airplane for those on the ground, particularly when the ears are 1000 ft or more away (at least 60 dB down from source).  The plane had/has an FAA approved muffler installed.  I issued earplugs or attenuating headsets to all my passengers after I learned about hearing damage and began using them.
Further, the airport existed well before anyone moved built homes next to it.  Even so, I've been paying for the surrounding homes to have additional soundproofing installed into them.  We also use approved noise abatement procedures when operating near the airport.
So, I have no feelings of guilt airplane operations.

Have you feelings of guilt operating loud motorcycle exhausts wherever you drive?

[luap]

TT you start a thread from another thread from a guy asking for help. your statement was I have NO sympathy for you. did you forget to put the reading glasses on HE WAS ASKING HOW TO TONE HIS BIKE DOWN, an did you ask him Hey man did you buy those loud pipes to piss people off. NO YOU DIDNT bc you didn't care Ive said it before the tt way or no way
Now thank you for Finally answering my questions
So you complain an complain about LOUD PIPES BUT you are going off on how LOUD pipes disturbing your conversations AN YOU HAVE NO NEIGHBORS THAT RIDE MOTORCYCLES WITH LOUD PIPES. your kidding right

"never meant to say it was my info.  Just info that I collected.   I find it credible, supportable, and backed by science.  I've seen nothing presented that would invalidate the info I collected."
Come on MAN really YES you did. You like people to folllow what you have to say You like people to agree with you, Sorry to say man Its just easier to come here to find the answer then a simple google search.Besides the people that have made friendships on this forum Dont get me wrong you supply alot of good info,(which I find reading after your post... you can find that in that info in the manual' but you kind of remind me of the goodwill hunting guy(Matt Damon) if you've seen the  movie then you know what I'm talking about.If you haven't rent it

Man answer the question don't supply more info that isn't yours
However, if you take 8 bikes at 100db each you have a combined SPL of 109 dB.  109dB exposure means ear plugs for all to protect from hearing damage.
So with JUST ANOTHER math term an no explanation IM assuming you like a group of Stock/muffled bikes, It was a simple question YES you do or NO you do NOT, THINK About it before you answer you have 8 motorcycles. PUT that in your "DATA"  NO RIDING IN GROUPS OF STOCK MOTORCYCLES

But, your body adapts and/or runs out of adrenaline with continued stimulus over time, which reduces your performance capability.  In flying that can be deadly.  With motorcycles, it increase your personal risk of an accident.  as well.  If you are human, you are NOT immune from these effects.  It is the way you were made

WAIT- Now your concerned about those guys that run loud pips. did you want to throw bricks at them earlier.
It always easy to assume. Like you assume I'm that dick that rides only loud pipe an doesn't care.
Your so quick to judge when someone doesn't agree with you. Like the guy that commented- opinions are like #$%* everyone has one. My best guess you haven't DONE ANYTHING CLOSE TO WHAT HE HAS DONE ON A MOTORCYCLE. you haven't been to the places hes been to ridden t he bikes hes ridden heard the roar of the crowd from a bike passing you at 180mph.
the little world of peace (don't exist) an quiet that's something you have to determine. how many more hours of your life are you going to waste getting mad b/c you think someone is doing something intentionally to harm you.
Like Scottly Mentioned you did a JOB that affected more interrupted conversations then any loud pipes. BUT IT WAS OK. your a  hypocrite
dont waste your finger typing a long " quote" quote' NO GOOGLE searches necessary" your opinion an judgement of me means nothing  re guardless if I like loud pipes. modified, stock, an YOUR MOST favorite POD filters.
Just for the record TT there has not been 1 posting on here where someone has stated they put pipes on their bikes to hurt annoy piss off/ get ticket from cops.
this is a forum where people come to ask question answer question concerns builds dont you think most have the same courtesy if not more then others, yell at the people that piss you off not people here that you think do it on purpose an have their opinion an help just as many people as yourself
Paul

 

[lordmoonpie]

...But, this one is fairly easy to control.  ...for the not too stodgy, and willing to live peacefully.

But really, you'd have certainly gotten a police visit at 1AM.  At least, in my neighborhood anyway, (which is distinctly lower middle class).  Perhaps there wouldn't be complaints in a ghetto.  They wouldn't complain there about a single gunshot, either. 

I like, and have liked, many of the things you listed in your post, too.  (And I said so previously.)  None of them have a place in a residential neighborhood, and you know it.  If you insist on forcing it upon people willy-nilly, then you ARE a dick.

Don't blame me, I didn't do it.  It was the I'll-do-anything-I-want-crowd that ruined it for us all.
Thanks, for your contribution!  There is currently discussion about banning motorcycles in National Parks.  If the motorcycles don't quiet down, it will happen, as there are currently teams making measurements to quantify the reported noise problem. I'll be right pissed if the noisy exhaust crowd prevents me from biking through all national parks!

Wait.  What is out of context?
That hearing loss occurs with exposure to loud noise?
That loud noise is harmful to individuals whether they ask for it willingly or not?
That your position, of insisting on bombarding random individuals with sound, is not intrusive (and unnecessarily so)?
What is out of context that waking/disturbing the neighbors is anti-social and "dick-like" behavior?
What makes your selfish "wants" outweigh the basic "needs" of the rest of humanity?

For one thing it is not just me.  I'm mostly the reporter here, in response to an investigative request by Mike.  And, I am quite certain it is you that are presenting a minority position.
Further, you can't dismiss the facts presented with a simple statement that they are.
If that is the case, then I can simply state that you are wrong on every point you've made.  There. done. (See, how that works?)

Agreed.  However, the point is that the laws are usually written after the offense is recognized, defined, and quantified, IE, when enough belligerent bozos flagrantly taunt the populace with offensive behavior.  Legislation has ALREADY been made in response to loud motorcycle noise, at least in the US.  Personally, I don't see you can claim free choice in the UK as you have MOT.  How free is that?  How much did you pay for that?  Was it free?

If you are not allowed to have any machine or tool your "free will" desires dictate, then are you really free in the first place?  Ooow, that's deep...

You were right to hesitate.  Because in a non-dictatorial society, it is the number of opinions that define acceptable behavior and practice.
In case you wish to forward the concept that your position is equal to the masses rather than the small minority it really is, let's look at realities.


Point: There are more of "them" than there are of "us".  And, there are a lot of "us" that don't want your loud exhaust near our homes, either.

Restrictions are certainly happening here in the US. Enforcement can't be too far off.  So, a big, sarcastic  "thank you" for making the noise problem an issue to cause action that effects us all.

Ah there you go again TT, disecting an in context post and turning it to suit your needs. I suppose being the "reporter" here you'd claim that was your job? I'm sure the National Enquirer would appreciate your style.

If indeed motorcycle exhaust noise is easy to control, why haven't you managed it yet? Could it be that actually it isn't easy to control at all? Just like anything that has a law against it, there's always someone willing to go beyond the limit. You can't control any of it.  At least your living in a lower middle class neighbourhood explains your NIMBY attitude to this, thanks for clearing that up. However as far as the law goes, I agree with you, if you break the law then you face the consequences - I said that already. Does that make you a dick? I dunno - who are you to decide who is or isn't a dick? Is every lawbreaker a dick? Can you seriously stand there and cast the first stone? Don't judge someone just because they sin differently to you.

Yes you posted lots of nice figures about tinitus, decibel levels etc etc ad nauseum, but where are the FACTS that drive by noisy motorcycles cause all the ills you suggest? Oh yes you can assume they have an effect, you can make that link for yourself, it might even be common sense, but you haven't posted any direct evidence supported claims against motorcycle noise causing damage. Where do you prove that motorcycle noise is significant enough that it outweighs the other noise issues we have in the modern world such that motorcycles become the focus of a necessary remediation? As for saying that I am in the minority and my selfish wants outweigh the rest of humanity - case in point? Prove it - show me that proof that the' rest of humanity' is in the quiet camp, show me the proof that I'm in a minority liking exhaust noise - you can't. Just because wikipedia show that motorcycle ownership is a minority occupation on a global scale and your ASSUMPTION that of those motorcyclists there is a minority that like exhaust sound, does not extrapolate up to a global level. There are plenty of non-motorcyclists who like to listen to bikes. And of course I'm not talking about 1am in your neighbourhood, of course that is unacceptable and it would be churlish for you to even suggest I'm condoning that anti-social behaviour.

Yes we do have an MoT in the UK, it costs £29 so you can get a certificate of roadworthiness for a year and given the inspection that takes place is of your whole machine, it's damn good value in my book. Very topical too - my 888 SP5 ducati passed it's annual MoT on saturday at 1550 in the afternoon, with its 105dB road legal exhausts and so it fits within the law applicable here, so you can re-adjust your view of me officially and I have the certificate to prove  - another of your assumptions that I am (in your world) "a dick" is incorrect!

So you see TT, I agree with you in law terms, I agree with you on the morals of loud noise in a neighbourhood whatever time of day it is, because I live my life within the law by and large, just like the moral majority does. What I don't agree with is your reporting of facts that have no supporting evidence to state a point that is (your) conjecture. There is no right or wrong on liking or disliking noise within the legal levels and the biggest part of the problem with any noise, is that Joe Public don't understand what is and isn't LEGAL and don't understand how the decibel scale works. Perhaps the better pursuit here is to educate all people about noise and not simply vilify people who like something you don't?

[luap]

Have you feelings of guilt operating loud motorcycle exhausts wherever you drive?
Thats CRAP - you need to do some soul searching MAN so quick to jump to conclusions  why dont you ask the people scottly road with while on the Godzilla run the cali guys  me an my buddys 100% stand up MAN-


I've been paying for the surrounding homes to have additional soundproofing installed into them
Now lets see a check with your signiture on it. YOU pay for it do you own the airport/airplane
an your concerns are FOR THE PEOPLE right, No thinking down the furture of getting sued,

[TwoTired]

Have you feelings of guilt operating loud motorcycle exhausts wherever you drive?
Thats CRAP - you need to do some soul searching MAN so quick to jump to conclusions  why dont you ask the people scottly road with while on the Godzilla run the cali guys  me an my buddys 100% stand up MAN-

Kinda sounds like an episode of gangland.  Can I expect a drive by?

I've been paying for the surrounding homes to have additional soundproofing installed into them
Now lets see a check with your signiture on it. YOU pay for it do you own the airport/airplane
an your concerns are FOR THE PEOPLE right, No thinking down the furture of getting sued,

I pay taxes to the county, for the airplane, and the space where it is parked.  The county uses part of the money paid to retrofit the houses around the airport.  I'm in the process of selling the airplane, unfortunately.

But, this is really getting away from the glory of having loud motorcycle exhaust and being a traveling sound terrorist.  And, you are just looking for something, anything by which to discredit me and gain an excuse to dismiss.

I keep telling you, its not me you have to worry about.  Eventually, the violators will be punished with police enforcement action.  It's just a matter of time.  Did you overlook the references to legislation that has been or is planned to be enacted?  My name is not on any of that!

I've explained about the "ammunition" lobby groups and legislatures are using the curb motorcycle exhaust noise.  And, I believe it is credible.  You don't like it?  Mount your own campaign and see how that goes.  The Motorcycle exhaust manufacturers will certainly back you as that is where the money trail leads.  Just don't complain to me when the National parks are closed to all motorcycle entry because of dickheads with loud motorcycle exhaust.

Further, this is all really getting personal rather than topical.   And, Glenn has asked everyone to NOT get personal.  If you have data or facts counter to what I posted, post it for discussion.  If you just want to roast the messenger or gag the information source, stow it.

[lordmoonpie]

Further, this is all really getting personal rather than topical.   And, Glenn has asked everyone to NOT get personal.  If you have data or facts counter to what I posted, post it for discussion.  If you just want to roast the messenger or gag the information source, stow it.

Sorry? Who started this thread challenging anybody's personal view that wasn't in line with his? You made it personal from the outset TT, you didn't set your stall out as a 'messenger' you (not uncommonly) proposed a contentious position knowing it would be inflamatory - physician heal thyself!
Until you post facts that unequivocally make the case, without "imo", "I am certain that" and all the other tenuous links you have created between marginally related noise facts and the proposition you put forward I don't see why anyone should take your view unchallenged. Stow it? Damn cheek...

[veloracermike]

Wow I really am amazed how the point is being missed here.  You me and the guy down the street can think the government or anyone else should be able to dictate what our bikes sound like, and frankly I agree.  However the reality is that they can and they will.  Like I said before the people who will show up to city council meetings and complain about loud motorized vehicles are not the people who like loud motorized vehicles. They are will, in every likely hood, be voicing those complaints to a non motorcycling group on the city council.  Who will intern talk draconian steps to curtail the sound of said motorized vehicles.  So rather than being able to put a baffled MAC or Kirker or whatever exhaust on you bike you will be breaking the law that now says modifying any stock exhaust is illegal.   

[BrockSamson]

I love how people are jumping all over TT and he is the only one posting non-anecdotal 3rd party evidence for his conclusions. 

I guess TT should have just made a worthless post that said:  "Dude your pipes are loud and you're an #$%*".  Instead he provided a well thought out and supported post that shows when noise can be too loud, the damage that can be done and examples of laws and regulations in place. 

I am anti-legislation.  99% of the time that someone says "there ought to be a law" I disagree.  This is one of those I have sat and thought about and ultimately it came down the the fact that you can cause ear damage.  Once physical harm to another human being is proven or damage to private property occurs I am willing to listen to a discussion about having government intervention. 

If you want loud pipes on roads you travel support privatization of public roads and only use the roads that allow your DB levels.  Until then realize there are unwilling participants to your motorcycle rock show and you can cause damage that may not be immediately apparent or tangible.

[lordmoonpie]

I guess TT should have just made a worthless post that said:  "Dude your pipes are loud and you're an #$%*".  Instead he provided a well thought out and supported post that shows when noise can be too loud, the damage that can be done and examples of laws and regulations in place. 

And that is the nub of the issue, TT's post shows lots of supporting evidence about noise and the effects of noise. None of that directly deals with the noise created by motorcycles, it's direct effects and impacts. THAT is all conjecture, supposition, assumption and extension of those facts through tenuous links that TT put up for comsumption. So, open invitation to either viewpoint - let's see the evidence of the effects of motorcycle noise specifically, because no-one has yet done that...

[tortelvis]

Funny seeing this thread...was filling up yesterday and the two Harleys were just leaving. Sounded like straight pipes on both. The guy filling his truck looked over at my Harley (now don't start!) and asked me "Are those things as loud when yer sittin' on 'em?" I tried to explain briefly that it was never gonna sound the same sitting on the bike as opposed to being behind the bike (DUH), but that pair were pretty damn loud. I asked him what he thought of mine when I fired it up and he sez, "Nah, yours is nowhere near as loud as those two." So he didn't find that mine was offensive (Vance and Hines Straightshots) but he HATED the bikes with straight through pipes. When I was a heck of a lot younger and rode a Triumph hardtail with straights I at least had the decency to roll into my neighborhood in a higher gear with low revs to keep the decibels down. I got pulled on that Triumph by a bike cop as I was cruising downtown Raleigh on a bitterly cold day.
He looks down at the TT pipes and sez "Where are the mufflers?"
"Internal baffles!" I reply.
I guess he took pity on a fool out on such a cold day. "You're right in front of the Governor's Mansion, piss off!" I did.